hose bib leaks only when hose is attached

[broadway]

It doesn't leak otherwise.

But when I attach a hose with a sprinkler and turn on the water, it starts leaking.

I can't tell if the leak is from the anti-siphon valve or not.

Also, the water sputters when coming out of the sprinkler.

 

[ERD50]

So you are saying that if you attach the hose and do not turn on the water, it leaks? From where?

Your post is confusing, it says it only leaks when hose is attached, but then you say it happens when hose is attached and you turn on the water. That's not "only".

Some hose bibs leak when the water is off (that's why they call it a leak).

But the back pressure from the sprinkler could cause it to leak anywhere that might not leak if the end of the hose was open, and no/little back pressure developed.

-ERD50

 

[Animorph]

I had a bib that leaked only when on. I wanted to connect it to a watering timer, so it had to remain on and timer would take care of the on/off part. I was able to disassemble the bib a bit and replace the packing along the stem. That was not too hard (with internet help) and did the trick. Cheap to do and likely a good first step.

 

[broadway]

Hose on and water on = leak

Hose off and water on = no leak

Hose off and water off = no leak

I am guessing it is the anti-siphon valve. To my eyes, it looks like the leak is coming from it. Cannot be 100% certain.

 

[Conundrum]

Anti siphon. Happened to me I just installed a whole new assembly

 

[broadway]

I have no expertise to replace the whole hose bib if that is what you mean.

Can I just replace the anti-siphon?

 

[Conundrum]

My unit is a all in one. Bibb plus long copper tube that protrudes into the house. Plumber did it for me while I was having a drain leak in my shower anyway

 

[samclem]

So the leak is exterior to the valve body (i.e. you aren't talking about a leak that drips out through where the hose attaches).

Is it the type of valve that has a repackable valve bonnet (i.e. a threaded bonnet that the valve stem goes through on the way to the handle?) Those types can leak around the stem, and they won't leak there when the valve is turned off. When the valve is opened with no hose, it might not leak, but if you have a hose with a sprinkler on it it could leak due to the higher pressure.
If that's the problem, it is easy to fix by removing the handle, unscrewing the bonnet, removing the old packing, rewinding some new graphite packing around the stem, screw the bonnet back down, and replace the handle. The packing is available at most hardware stores.

 

[broadway]

Mine is similar to the one in this Youtube video except I can't unscrew the valve. hmmm

I guess a trip to Home Depot tomorrow.
I will take a photo.

 

[Winemaker]

Not sure what you mean by anti siphon. If you attach a hose to to the bibb and turn the water on, and it leaks around stem? Then tighten the nut up around stem, if still leaks, do what animorph suggested and add some string packing and retighten nut.

The only anti siphon part on my water is a special check valve that is on the main that comes into the house that prevents my water from draining back out of my house into the main water line. It is there to eliminate me from contaminating water in the mainline.

Now that you posted the pic, I have never seen that ever on a hose bibb in my life. I have worked in hardware stores and I bought the plumbing inventory for a long time. Must be a regional thing.

 

[samclem]

Maybe google the brand name of the valve and see if there are instructions for servicing the antisiphon valve.

If not, you may have to replace the whole unit. That's not hard IF the unit is attached with threaded fittings and you can get at the "supply end" to hold it with a wrench while you unscrew the old valve and screw in the new valve with anther wrench. If you >can't< get a wrench on the "inside", it is a risky, ill-advised endeavor to just twist the old valve off and twist the new valve on and hope (fervently) that the supply side fittings don't break free.

If the valve is soldered to the supply line and you aren't comfortable using a torch, then you may need to call a plumber.

 

[LastOfTheBoomers]

Is the faucet downstream or downhill from the hose? Mine would drip with the hose attached in this situation.

 

[jonat]

I agree that it is almost certainly the anti-siphon feature. Sometimes you can replace the part as shown in the video, but in my case I had to replace the valve. I used SharkBite connectors instead of soldering, and it's trouble-free.

 

[Telly]

I HATE Anti-siphon valves!

For those of you who don't have them, consider yourself lucky!

This house was built before the anti-siphon valve was required by most plumbing codes on outside hose faucets. I needed a new long-necked anti-freeze valve some years ago, and all of them were anti-siphon. So I bought one by American Valve.

First, some terminology... the part that sticks up outside is the VACUUM BREAKER valve. It is a one-way valve that keeps water IN when the valve is ON, and when the valve is turned OFF, it opens up under any vacuum condition to allow air in (to help break any siphon effect, like putting the working end of the hose in a pool).

More dastardly, is the Anti back-flow Check Valve that is inside the faucet body, way to the supply end. In a regular (now obsolete) freeze-proof faucet, the long shaft you turn via the handle screwed a rubber compression washer in and out, exposing/covering a hole in the casting. The washer was held onto the end of the shaft via a brass screw in the center. To change the washer, because the valve would not shut off all the way unless to murdered it closed, you turn off the house water, and unscrew the packing nut (the shaft goes through it) with a wrench, while holding the faucet body from turning, with another wrench.

However, the new valves implement a spring-loaded valve idea back there. Where the original way was to attach the rubber washer directly onto the end of the valve shaft, the washer is now attached to a spring-loaded cup, such that the cup with attached washer can move in/out against spring pressure when the bib is ON. So when you turn the valve ON, the long shaft backs out, but the spring keeps the washer over the hole, keeping the water off... but water main pressure pushes the spring-loaded washer outwards, allowing water to flow. If city water pressure is lost while the hose bib is ON, the spring closes it, which creates the anti-backflow feature.

Sounds good, right? Uh, noooo... that spring-loaded washer is a real pain. It likes to oscillate open/closed like a motor boat under certain and extremely common conditions. An impulse sprinkler drives it nuts. Often, when using the hose outside, if someone inside turns on a faucet near the hose bib, the whole house cold water system can hammer away in resonance. Also, the spring-loaded washer can stick when not used frequently, creating the odd effect of turning the valve knob ON, and no water flows, then suddenly does. Can be very hard to regulate flow.
I would have put my old valve back in, but its body was worn out, the long valve shaft wobbled too much on it.

 

[Telly]

I forgot to add... with something on the hose end with flow resistance, like a rotary sprinkler, it is not uncommon for water to alternately spluch out of the Vacuum Breaker valve, as it oscillates in opposition to the Anti-Backflow valve's oscillation. So if the A-B valve starts to oscillate, one may want to get a hand sledge and smack the living crap out of the whole concept, and reject outside water usage for ever...

 

[samclem]

More dastardly, is the Anti back-flow Check Valve that is inside the faucet body, way to the supply end. . . .
However, the new valves implement a spring-loaded valve idea back there. Where the original way was to attach the rubber washer directly onto the end of the valve shaft, the washer is now attached to a spring-loaded cup, such that the cup with attached washer can move in/out against spring pressure when the bib is ON. So when you turn the valve ON, the long shaft backs out, but the spring keeps the washer over the hole, keeping the water off... but water main pressure pushes the spring-loaded washer outwards, allowing water to flow.

Wow, what a pain in the neck. I've never seen this new style of frostproof faucet, only the older style.

So, is it possible to modify the "feature" so that the new valves function like the old ones did? (Of course that would be wrong, but I'm on a well. If I lose power, there is no backflow. I suppose if my check valve failed AND I had a garden hose immersed in a bucket of deadly poison AND the valve was open, then I could have problems). Maybe replace the spring with a length of small copper tube (to serve as a spacer)? Might need to solder everything together?

 

[Telly]

......
So, is it possible to modify the "feature" so that the new valves function like the old ones did? .......... Maybe replace the spring with a length of small copper tube (to serve as a spacer)? Might need to solder everything together?

We're on the same wavelength! When I had it all apart, I was thinking of that.
It will take very precise positioning to be sure that the pan that holds the washer is perfectly parallel to the seat area (washer pan perfectly normal to the valve's shaft), otherwise with the long shaft, it will tend to "walk" the washer around the seat area. Which has been the wear-out failure of the old valves, the increasing wobble of the long shaft out at the washer end eats washers, and is also tough on the stem packing sealing.

I can solder OK, but I don't know if that would be strong enough, or if brazing is needed, which I have no capability to do.

 

[fritz]

Mine is similar to the one in this Youtube video except I can't unscrew the valve. hmmm

I guess a trip to Home Depot tomorrow.
I will take a photo.

We have similar frost proof hose bibs as shown in the video. They have snap on green plastic caps and the interior of the anti siphon utilizes two O-rings (one large one similar to the video and one smaller one instead of the rubber washer).


The hose bib in the garage is 11+ years old and still works well. The one at the rear of the house needs the O-rings replaced about every other year. I attribute this to the summer heat drying out the O-rings, along with use. I lubricate them with a product for water faucet O-rings, but they inevitably dry out and break (as evidenced while in the process of replacing them when the faucet leaks from the anti siphon while the water is on). Takes less than 5 minutes to replace them and it's not necessary to turn off the water with my style of faucet.


Might try taking the anti siphon cap and internal parts out to take with you to Home Depot. The O-rings are cheap - I keep several replacements handy.

 

[ERD50]

....
The hose bib in the garage is 11+ years old and still works well. The one at the rear of the house needs the O-rings replaced about every other year. I attribute this to the summer heat drying out the O-rings, along with use. I lubricate them with a product for water faucet O-rings, but they inevitably dry out and break (as evidenced when in the process of replacing them) when the faucet leaks from the anti siphon when the water is on.... .

I bet you could find silicone o-rings on-line pretty cheap. I bet they'll last decades.

examples:

https://www.amazon.com/111-Silicone-Ring-Durometer-Width/dp/B000FMWNZS

https://www.amazon.com/013-Silicone...rd_wg=2u36G&psc=1&refRID=31Q2Y8Q50RY37J2CDVG6


-ERD50

 

[fritz]

I bet you could find silicone o-rings on-line pretty cheap. I bet they'll last decades.

examples:

https://www.amazon.com/111-Silicone-Ring-Durometer-Width/dp/B000FMWNZS

https://www.amazon.com/013-Silicone...rd_wg=2u36G&psc=1&refRID=31Q2Y8Q50RY37J2CDVG6


-ERD50

I bought a bunch of replacements, but will have to consider trying your recommendation when I use them all up.

 

[ERD50]

I bought a bunch of replacements, but will have to consider trying your recommendation when I use them all up.

Ah-hah! The "sunk-cost" behavioral economics trap raises its ugly head!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

Essentially, you've already bought the old washers, the cost has been incurred and can't be changed.

But the silicone ones could save you the (small) hassle of having the leak and spending the 5 minutes to fix it each year.

So the only real savings is postponing the (tiny) investment in the silicone washers, and letting your ($4?) in capital grow while you use up the old ones (and hope that the price of silicone washers doesn't increase faster than your investment returns!).

OK, admittedly silly when we are talking such small numbers, but its interesting to me to see that sunk-cost appear in real life.

-ERD50

 

[samclem]

So the only real savings is postponing the (tiny) investment in the silicone washers, and letting your ($4?) in capital grow while you use up the old ones (and hope that the price of silicone washers doesn't increase faster than your investment returns!).

True, but only if the person will live in the house forever. If he's got a box of 10 rubber washers (and can actually find them when he needs them, my biggest problem!), changes them every 2 years, and will live in the house for 15 more years and then sell it, then buying the silicone washers is totally wasted money (obviously, disregarding the time spent doing the repairs, but also disregarding the time spent getting the new silicone washers). Nobody is going to give him a higher price for the house when he sells because it has silicone washers in the hose bib.

Admittedly a trivial example, but it also applies to bigger purchases. Money spent for my car, water heater, air conditioner, roof, etc is also "sunk" (like the money already spent for the existing box of rubber washers), but if I can take small steps to make them last longer and extend the replacement interval, it does make a difference in total annual expenses.

 

[broadway]

fixed

I went to Home Depot and bought a package labeled as a Vacuum Breaker Kit similar to https://www.walmart.com/ip/ProLine-Replacement-Vacuum-Breaker-Kit/38473277.

$2.68 + tax

Used a slip-joint plier to remove the broken assembly.
The gasket on the inner piece had two hairline cracks.

Tada!

The Youtube videos were very helpful.

I saved a ton of money replacing my Honda Accord's cabin air filter by myself just by watching a Youtube video.
Also saved money watching Youtube videos on how to replace a switch inside my GE over-the-range microwave oven on which the fan would turn on when the door was opened.
And now this.


.

 

[Philliefan33]

Reading this thread made me look like a genius yesterday. DH attached the hose to the front faucet and it leaked. I told him “it looks like you need to replace the vacuum breaker”. He was skeptical until I showed him the YouTube video. A quick trip to the local hardware store yielded the repair kit. Such a simple fix!

 

[NJMaMa]

Thank You!!!

Thank you Broadway for your simple video share! This answered all my questions, and also showed me that I was putting the little interior piece in upside down. This simple and under $20.00 repair (two hose bibs, $9.00 each) saved my husband a few hundred dollars by not having a plumber have to come out. I will be using this website from now on to fix the simple things around the house.