I thought I understood opensocialsecurity.com ...

[stephenson]

Hi All,

My day to ask questions ...

So, I had not looked at opensocialsecurity in a while, and it seems to be telling me something different ... or, maybe not?

I am 69 yo ... OSS asks for PIA amount at full retirement age, but I am past this. So what number goes in the PIA box? Current amount?

My current amount is $4147, my 70 yo amount is $4462 (spouse did not have sufficient earnings for SS):
- 4147 - computes to $85,926 with spousal with PV of $1,408,382
- 4462 - computes to $92,453 with spousal with PV of $1,515,360

Both calcs say - "You file for your retirement benefit to begin (retroactively) as of 1/2023, at age 68 and 10 months.
Your spouse files for his/her spousal benefit to begin (retroactively) as of 1/2023, at age 68 and 8 months."

Is this inaccurate in that I did not use the FRA number (don't have it)?

 

[G-Man]

Hi All,

My day to ask questions ...

So, I had not looked at opensocialsecurity in a while, and it seems to be telling me something different ... or, maybe not?

I am 69 yo ... OSS asks for PIA amount at full retirement age, but I am past this. So what number goes in the PIA box? Current amount?

My current amount is $4147, my 70 yo amount is $4462 (spouse did not have sufficient earnings for SS):
- 4147 - computes to $85,926 with spousal with PV of $1,408,382
- 4462 - computes to $92,453 with spousal with PV of $1,515,360

Both calcs say - "You file for your retirement benefit to begin (retroactively) as of 1/2023, at age 68 and 10 months.
Your spouse files for his/her spousal benefit to begin (retroactively) as of 1/2023, at age 68 and 8 months."

Is this inaccurate in that I did not use the FRA number (don't have it)?

Have you setup an account on SSA.gov yet? I would think SSA.gov would have a more accurate number.

Wow. I hope one day to get that large of an amount for Social Security at age 70. Soon to be 57 and plan to delay SS benefits until 70 as well.

 

[Al18]

The amount of your SS benefit would appear on your SS benefit statement from 2 or 3 years ago. Check your records.

 

[audreyh1]

No, the current amount would not be used for PIA. I had to back-calculate the one for DH. It was there in their site how to do this. Maybe a link.

 

[audreyh1]

Have you setup an account on SSA.gov yet? I would think SSA.gov would have a more accurate number.

Wow. I hope one day to get that large of an amount for Social Security at age 70. Soon to be 57 and plan to delay SS benefits until 70 as well.

Once you get past your FRA, the SS.gov site no longer shows you your PIA.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Looking at these numbers, they cannot be correct:
My current amount is $4147, my 70 yo amount is $4462 (spouse did not have sufficient earnings for SS):
- 4147 - computes to $85,926 with spousal with PV of $1,408,382
- 4462 - computes to $92,453 with spousal with PV of $1,515,360

Both calcs say - "You file for your retirement benefit to begin (retroactively) as of 1/2023, at age 68 and 10 months.
Your spouse files for his/her spousal benefit to begin (retroactively) as of 1/2023, at age 68 and 8 months."

Spousal benefits are "stuck" at 50% of your PIA (at your FRA), COLA adjusted for each year. The numbers shown above are way too high.

 

[SecondCor521]

The numbers shown above are way too high.

I'm not an SS expert by any means, but I think they look way too high because the website is assuming that the OP is putting in their FRA PIA, which it is then inflated by COLAs and/or inflation adjustments for three or four years (from FRA to age 70).

I agree with the other poster that OP should be putting in FRA PIA, and they may need to reverse engineer it back from 69 to 65 or whatever their FRA was. Putting in age 69 or age 70 numbers will end up with results that are too high.

The important takeaway seems to be that OP should file for their and spousal benefits ASAP, assuming they put their data in correctly and agree with how OSS determines the optimal result. Although I would guess that with such a high benefit and similar ages, there is little to no difference claiming any time between now and age 70.

Since I think you can only retroactively claim benefits by six months, OP might be in the situation of "losing" a month of benefits that they should have claimed but didn't starting today, because today is 7/1, and so they might not be able to retroactively claim benefits for January 2023 either now or sometime very very soon. Again, probably doesn't matter much in the big scheme of things, but as long as you're going to go through the application process at some point and have the OSS tool available, might as well take advantage of the analysis.

 

[RetiredHappy]

You can use your PIA at FRA, if you have kept copies of past SS Statements. I keep my SS Statement every year ever since I started working, and also downloaded the copies when they stopped sending out hardcopies. To know what the current PIA is at your FRA, you would multiply COLA into it for each year. I don't know if OSS is smart enough to understand all of these.

There is a difference in SS payment between 69 and 70 and I would certainly wait until 70 to file. The balance of that is that the spouse cannot collect until OP has started collecting.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

You can calculate your PIA using a number of tools rather than back-calculating it. You can try:
https://ssa.tools

or a nice Excel spreadsheet from a user on Bogleheads:
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=262772

 

[G-Man]

Since we are the topic of SS benefits and let's assume using the OP number of $4147 for delayed benefit amount at age 70.

Let's assume you are 57 and on SSA.gov it shows that if you stop working today, your delayed benefit at age 70 is $4147. I assume that number would be the minimum benefit that you would receive at age 70.

Fast-forward 13 years later (age 70), I would assume that the age 70 benefit of $4147 would have increased significantly. I'm I looking at this in the right way?

 

[RetiredHappy]

Since we are the topic of SS benefits and let's assume using the OP number of $4147 for delayed benefit amount at age 70.

Let's assume you are 57 and on SSA.gov it shows that if you stop working today, your delayed benefit at age 70 is $4147. I assume that number would be the minimum benefit that you would receive at age 70.

Fast-forward 13 years later (age 70), I would assume that the age 70 benefit of $4147 would have increased significantly. I'm I looking at this in the right way?

First of all, you need to make sure that you have a more granular calculator which puts in zeros after age 57. SSA assumes that you will keep working with your current level of income to come up with 35 years of highest earnings. If you have indeed used 0s for all the years after 57 and it still says $4147, then this amount is COLA adjusted each year for the next 13 years until you collect. In other words, it will only go up and not down.

 

[Exchme]

Here's how I would do the math.

You were born in 1954. That makes FRA = 66.
Deferred retirement credits add 8% of the PIA each year (2/3 of 1%/month of the PIA). So lets evaluate as of January when you were 68 & 10 months, meaning 34 months of deferred retirement credits.

Your PIA = Current Benefits/(1+0.00667*months deferred),
So PIA = 4147/(1+.00667*34) = 4147/1.227 = $3380.
If your spouse was already 67 at that time, the spousal benefit would be $1640.

The program is wanting you to apply retroactively since the spousal benefit stopped growing.

 

[stephenson]

Thanks for all the great replies and comments!

Yep - I just went to the ssa.tools calculator - according to it my FRA was $3366.80 (very close working it backwards, Exchme!), and then add in 50% of that for spousal component.

I used those FRA numbers in the opensocialsecurity calculator, and it shows the expected numbers - and the numbers I recalled from previous planning (although I like my first inaccurate number )

So, photo attached is of the new comp.

I have been dreading filing because it means:
1. 70! Gah!!
2. Since Medicare insurance payments will automatically be drawn from the SS payment, we not be able to get travel points for using travel credit card!

If the numbers are what the numbers are, we should file immediately, then, yes?

 

[G-Man]

First of all, you need to make sure that you have a more granular calculator which puts in zeros after age 57. SSA assumes that you will keep working with your current level of income to come up with 35 years of highest earnings. If you have indeed used 0s for all the years after 57 and it still says $4147, then this amount is COLA adjusted each year for the next 13 years until you collect. In other words, it will only go up and not down.

On the SSA.gov site, in the calculator you can enter 0 in the "Average Future Annual Salary" field and that should put zeros after age 57.

 

[G-Man]

First of all, you need to make sure that you have a more granular calculator which puts in zeros after age 57. SSA assumes that you will keep working with your current level of income to come up with 35 years of highest earnings. If you have indeed used 0s for all the years after 57 and it still says $4147, then this amount is COLA adjusted each year for the next 13 years until you collect. In other words, it will only go up and not down.

So, let's assume on the average there is a 2% COLA increase per year for the next 13 years. That $4147 would be $5365 per month when I turn 70 in 2036. Close to $65K in SS benefits alone just for me. Does that sound right?

 

[Midpack]

Once you get past your FRA, the SS.gov site no longer shows you your PIA.

Actually it does indirectly. Your "Spouse, if benefits start at full retirement age:" amount is your current exact PIA after you're older than FRA. I know because I went through the exact same issue getting opensocialsecurity to reflect correct numbers for me...

 

[stephenson]

So - not sure I understand the retroactive recommendation from opensocialsecurity - does this mean if I file now, there is a lower amount until I turn 70 - or what?

I appreciate your comments - only do this once and I don't wanna screw it up!

 

[RetiredHappy]

So, let's assume on the average there is a 2% COLA increase per year for the next 13 years. That $4147 would be $5365 per month when I turn 70 in 2036. Close to $65K in SS benefits alone just for me. Does that sound right?

YES! I got $64,375.

 

[RetiredHappy]

So - not sure I understand the retroactive recommendation from opensocialsecurity - does this mean if I file now, there is a lower amount until I turn 70 - or what?

I appreciate your comments - only do this once and I don't wanna screw it up!

If you file now, that is what you will get plus COLA for the rest of your life. But your spouse can also start collect spousal benefits. If you wait a year, you get higher amount, but your spouse loses one year of benefits as she cannot file until you file.

 

[G-Man]

First of all, you need to make sure that you have a more granular calculator which puts in zeros after age 57. SSA assumes that you will keep working with your current level of income to come up with 35 years of highest earnings. If you have indeed used 0s for all the years after 57 and it still says $4147, then this amount is COLA adjusted each year for the next 13 years until you collect. In other words, it will only go up and not down.

YES! I got $64,375.

Wow. Didn't know it was possible to get that high of an amount for SS benefits. I will take it.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Wow. Didn't know it was possible to get that high of an amount for SS benefits. I will take it.

It's "just" because of inflation.

 

[SecondCor521]

If the numbers are what the numbers are, we should file immediately, then, yes?

Immediately and retroactively, as I mentioned in post #7. As long as you believe you've entered everything correctly and agree with the way the OSS website determines the optimum strategy, of course. And have considered the things that OSS doesn't include, like Roth conversion opportunities and any other tax impacts (maybe impact on RMDs).

 

[SecondCor521]

So, let's assume on the average there is a 2% COLA increase per year for the next 13 years. That $4147 would be $5365 per month when I turn 70 in 2036. Close to $65K in SS benefits alone just for me. Does that sound right?

Math checks out to me. 1.02^10 * 4147 = ~$5365. Times 12 is $64,380 or so.

Two considerations, though:

1. The average SS COLA over the longer term is closer to 3%. Personally I use 3.01% based on the longest term average I could find on the SS site.

2. You have to decide what your guess is on the SS funding situation, which will probably play out however it does before any 57 year old person today reaches their 70th birthday. Personally I use 80% of my estimated benefit based on the numbers in the 2022 SS trustees report, which I think is probably conservative but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

But yeah, your math checks out, which was your main question I think.

 

[G-Man]

Math checks out to me. 1.02^10 * 4147 = ~$5365. Times 12 is $64,380 or so.

Two considerations, though:

1. The average SS COLA over the longer term is closer to 3%. Personally I use 3.01% based on the longest term average I could find on the SS site.

2. You have to decide what your guess is on the SS funding situation, which will probably play out however it does before any 57 year old person today reaches their 70th birthday. Personally I use 80% of my estimated benefit based on the numbers in the 2022 SS trustees report, which I think is probably conservative but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

But yeah, your math checks out, which was your main question I think.

Ok. If I use the average of 3.01%, that is $6098 per month at age 70 in 2036. Around $73K per year in SS benefits for me alone. That would be insane.

 

[SecondCor521]

Ok. If I use the average of 3.01%, that is $6098 per month at age 70 in 2036. Around $73K per year in SS benefits for me alone. That would be insane.

Yeah, it is quite surprising. Even with the 20% haircut, my (80% of) SS benefit covers 125% of my current spending.

FWIW, I just took an average of the data at https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/colaseries.html (which is where I think I got the 3.01% from a while ago, but I can't be sure because I can't replicate that average in any reasonable way) and the average is now up to 3.78%. But make sure to doublecheck my work!