Immersive language schools abroad

[rodi]

Not sure if this should be in travel, blow-the-dough, or life after fire...

I'd love to hear anyone's experiences in learning a foreign language, in that foreign country.

Here are the details of what I'm considering:
2 month of intensive (30hrs/week, maybe only 20/week)
In Florence, Italy.
Goal, being able to pass the "livello b1" exam (which is offered a week after the classes end). I need the livello b1 to get spousal Italian citizenship (husband and sons are duel citizens)

It qualifies for blow the dough because it's 2 months in an expensive city. So we'd be renting an apartment, living like a local. It would be off season, which helps with the rentals. But since it's 2 months I have minimum requirements like washing machine - and if it's on the 3rd floor or higher an elevator is required. Lots of cheap apartments on the 4th floor, no lift, no AC, and washer, and inadequate kitchen. The cost of the classes isn't too bad. DH might do some classes, but might not... he's just along for the adventure.

Specific questions:
- How long was your program?
- Did your language improve to fluency?
- what was your overall experience?
- How did you pick which school?

I've taken 3 semesters of college level Italian courses, and am currently taking the equivalent of the 3rd semester through EdX to refresh the weird tenses... but I am NOT an intuitive language person... I think I need an immersive program to practice, practice, practice on the grammar and tenses and speaking/listening faster. (I'm ok reading/writing, sort of... but get lost during fast conversations.)

 

[braumeister]

Not directly an answer, although I think it sounds like a wonderful idea and encourage you to go for it. However, I needed to quickly pump up my language skill when I was sent to another country for my job.

I had already taken six months of classroom training here, and finished that at the top of my class, but I was still a long way from being truly fluent.

What helped me the most in my first year was just watching lots of TV. The soap operas were the best, at least at first, since they were ordinary conversation at a slightly slower pace. Second best was the evening news.

Surprisingly, I found myself picking up lots of good idiomatic expressions by listening to people on the city bus I rode to work every morning. That was another real help.

 

[rodi]

Thanks Braumeister. I've already restarted listening to "slow news in Italian" in the Linguistica app... A podcast about world news, but they speak slower, and there is text to go with it.

I got the highest grades in all three semesters of my college level courses... but I'm a reading/writing learner... which fit the class.

A friend suggested finding Italian podcasts... but I'll have to figure out where to find Italian soap operas. LOL.

 

[anethum]

I went to a Spanish language school in Costa Rica for 3 weeks about 27 years ago. 10 years later I attended another language school in Mexico (San Cristobal de las Casas) for 3 more weeks. I only had 1 semester of Spanish prior to those schools. In both cases, I lived with a local family. I had one-on-one instruction for 4 or 5 hours a day. The first school was recommended by someone I knew. I found the 2nd school by searching online. I'm sure that both schools were cheaper than anything in western Europe. Plus, my homestay housing and food were inexpensive, though my Mexican lodging was somewhat basic.

The instructors at both schools were good, though the CR school was the better of the two. I learned a lot more at the first school, but I think much of that had to do with my age. It is definitely harder for my brain to retain new vocabulary as I get older. I asked my last teacher at the CR school how many more weeks she thought I'd need to remain at the school in order to become fluent. I think she answered 3 or 4 weeks. Alas, I was in a new relationship back at home and I was anxious to return for that reason.

I can converse in Spanish, though not as well as I'd like. I have a weekly Skype language exchange I've been doing with someone in Costa Rica for many years, but I don't really study the way I should. There are free websites where you can find partners for a language exchange. Native speakers of English are in high demand so it's easy to find partners. Finding a good partner or someone you click with can take some time, however. We speak half of the session in one language, and half in the other language.

When Covid hit, I started doing French-English exchanges online just to maintain my fluent French. I spoke with several people until I found a good language exchange partner. We have enjoyable conversations about lots of things. In fact, I met him in person a year ago in Paris and we spent a very enjoyable day together (he's retired). He and his partner were just visiting me this past week. They stayed with me for 4 days and we had a great time together. Since my French is better than his English, and his friend's English is worse, we spoke entirely in French while they were here.

These are two of the better free websites for finding language exchange partners:

https://www.conversationexchange.com/

https://www.language-exchanges.org/

 

[rodi]

Thanks Anethum... Great ideas/resources

 

[bigreader]

Studying Italian in Italy is my passion project!

- How long was your program:
I have gone to Torino (multiple times, since I really like the city and region, for a total of 2.5 months), Trieste (1 month), Rome (1 month), Lucca (1 month), Casalbordino (2 weeks) and Verona (2 weeks) Next month I go to Napoli for a month.

- Did your language improve to fluency?
I think that your needs are a bit more specific: you want to know enough Italian to read, write, speak and comprehend well enough to pass the B1 level test for citizenship. When you are picking a school, you will want to find one that has a program to prepare you for the test. Immersion helps, but at least for me, it is not magic. I still study Italian and take bi-weekly classes when I am at home. I can handle myself OK, but I don’t think that I am fluent.

- what was your overall experience?
I go to language school to be challenged and to learn about the city and see another part of Italy. All of my experiences have been good! Sure, some schools are better than others, but I have never felt like I was wasting my time.

- How did you pick which school?
Usually, I pick the city first. There is a bit of luck involved in picking the right school since a lot of it depends on your classmates. I tend to go to bigger schools. It works well when you can get people at the same language level. I feel like bigger schools just attract more students and that improves those odds. For you, I’d specifically look at their help in preparing for the test.

- Blow that dough?
I have two thoughts on cost. First, does the city have to be Florence? There are less expensive cities with good schools. Second, does it have to be two months? There are courses preparing for the test here in the US using ZOOM. https://sfiis.org/citizenship/ ; https://icc-sd.org/product/preparazione-al-cils-course-only/ Maybe only go for a month and take the test in Italy after you have finished the course? Also, if there are specific areas you'd like to practice, for example speaking, there are very affordable teachers on iTalki who use Zoom.

BR

 

[rodi]

Thanks bigreader. My husband picked the city - it's his favorite in Italy. Since he's coming along, he gets a vote. LOL.

 

[audreyh1]

Thanks Braumeister. I've already restarted listening to "slow news in Italian" in the Linguistica app... A podcast about world news, but they speak slower, and there is text to go with it.

I got the highest grades in all three semesters of my college level courses... but I'm a reading/writing learner... which fit the class.

A friend suggested finding Italian podcasts... but I'll have to figure out where to find Italian soap operas. LOL.

I think in Italy they watch Mexican soap operas dubbed in Italian. At least that was what was on the TV when we were there.

I’d love to do an immersion language course somewhere. Always been on my list but never gotten around to it.

Gosh any place in Tuscany would be heaven.

 

[omni550]

Rodi,

Perhaps you can find Italian language forums where students have shared their experiences with taking the B1 exam. Also, are there 'Italian language test exams' in Italian that you can find online to help you prepare?

Just for kicks, I'm studying German online using SmarterGerman.com. Most of the other students seem to be foreign nationals who need to pass the A1 Exam and/or the B1 Exam for important reasons (like getting residency for living in Germany or as a job requirement).

The developer of this course offers a special course for Hacking your B1 Exam." "https://smartergerman.com/courses/hack-your-b1-exam/"

A few portions of this hacking course are accessible for free, such as Oral Exam Test Tips & Tricks that seem applicable to other languages as well. https://courses.smartergerman.com/courses/b1-exam-preparation/lectures/36420442

Also, I seem to recall hearing him advise one student to sign up for two test sessions (separated by a few days or a week), just in case she didn't pass the test the first time, she wouldn't have to go back to the end of the line to register to retake the exam (I think they are scheduled several months in the future), she'd already have a second test session scheduled. Plus she'd be 'armed' with the knowledge of having recently taken the test and likely a bit less nervous as a result. If she passes it the first time, she can easily cancel the second registration.

omni

 

[bigreader]

Some podcasts are:

https://www.lessonpod.it/ It's pretty simple, with just one person talking, short, many topics. Maybe a good next step after News in Slow Italian.

The Essential. A daily news podcast that is 5 minutes long, one speaker, not too speedy.

https://italia-podcast.it/ has a list of all kinds of podcasts, as well as RAIRadio and Radio24. YouTube also has a bunch of things for Italian learning as well as news and entertainment. The trick is to find something that works for you. I usually try to find a subject that I know something about since maybe what I know can fill in what I can't follow.

BR

 

[Gumby]

When I was at USNA, they once had a dance/social event for the daughters of various ambassadors, attachés, etc., and I was one of the lucky midshipmen invitees. I met a lovely young woman from Chile named Marcela. I could speak only halting Spanish and she could speak only rudimentary English, but we could both speak French, so that was the majority of our conversation. She told me that she had learned the most English by watching the news and soap operas. I would expect that the same would hold true for learning idiomatic Italian.

 

[razztazz]

She told me that she had learned the most English by watching the news and soap operas. I would expect that the same would hold true for learning idiomatic Italian.

I remember seeing Placido Domingo on Johnny Carson one night back in the late 70's when he was just entering the broader public eye. He said the same thing. His friends told him to learn English quickly watch a lot of TV.

 

[HarveyS]

I studied German for one month in Vienna, Austria. This was back in January 2018. My course was 15 hours per week, three hours each morning. I spent an additional three hours a day doing homework and worksheets. My language skills improved more than I expected. I was assigned a partner in class who was a war refugee who desperately needed to pass the German test to get a residency permit in Vienna. I was taking the class on a lark, but having a partner that had a tremendous need motivated me to make sure I had all my work done and could hold my own in class reviews/discussions.

Expect to spend lots of time outside of class on assignments.

Maybe you can find a family to stay with? My daughter did this in France and it helped her reach fluency. No English spoken in the home.

 

[HarveyS]

Overall I had a great experience. I picked the school based on reviews on google. Vienna was half the cost of schools in Germany.

 

[FIYes]

I took a two week Spanish immersion course in Mexico. It was a great experience. I didn’t progress in my Spanish as much as I would like…but it was only two weeks, I lacked the foundation in Spanish that you have in Italian, and I was doing this on a lark ant not to pass an exam. I have found that my ability to pick up a language is less as I get older. I also find that I can pick up on reading much much more easily than listening.

You have some excellent suggestions on this thread. I would add that it won’t get easier as you get older so go ahead now. Also, keep in mind that your experience will not be truly immersive since you will be with your husband and probably speaking English in the evenings. I remember a friend who taught ESL classes at a university saying that her married students had a much harder time achieving fluency than the young single guys who were trying to pick up girls.

 

[rodi]

That is awesome big reader. Thank you so much.

 

[skyking1]

Thanks all for a great thread. Language is one of my planned goals and activities in retirement.
I studied Spanish in high school for two years and used it when I had the chance. I want to sharpen that up and study others.

 

[rodi]

Thanks all for a great thread. Language is one of my planned goals and activities in retirement.
I studied Spanish in high school for two years and used it when I had the chance. I want to sharpen that up and study others.

I had similar goals... so I signed up for a (super cheap) community college course in beginning Italian. Liked it so much I did all 3 semesters. It was nice because I was worried I needed some structure as I transitioned from work to retirement. 5 unit classes, 3x/week, gave me that structure. I wish they'd offered further courses.

 

[YB88]

I've done language schools in Germany Spain, Italy, Costa Rica, Mexico, and France. My spanish is pretty good now, but I don't use it enough to push through to the level of fluency that I'd like. My German is passable for one-on-one conversations with someone who is occasionally patient with my limited vocabulary.


I don't have a serious purpose like the OP, so for me these have been a combination of vacation and study, where the study helps me ultimately enjoy travel a lot more.


My wife and I stayed in Rome for a month doing a language school; my Italian is by far the weakest of languages I've studied (well, and ditto French). It's kind of weird learning Italian when your Spanish is pretty good; I can parse the language easily, the grammer is very similar, but the vocabulary always feels like sort of an odd minefield to walk through: so many words are the same or similar, but then again, so many are just completely different, and I typically don't have enough experience with Italian to know the difference. So this is one case where it's really true that I can understand more than I can confidently speak.



As an aside, on Amazon Prime for another few days they have the old 'Don Mateo' mysteries, which seems to me a nice way to take in some Italian dialogue. I think it leaves Prime as a "free for prime" members in less than a week now, however.


I've mostly had good experiences at language schools, but the specific teaching methods aren't always optimal, for me at least. The worst was the most recent: my wife and I were hiking a pilgrim route in France and so did a couple weeks of language school in Montpelier first. The instructor seemed very nice, but I became increasingly frustrated at the teaching approach to the point that by the second week I was just staying in our airbnb to do self-study. My wife seemed fine with it, however, and stayed with the class.



For the most part it of course boils down to how much work you want to put into it, and what course you sign up for. I've always gone for the minimal, typically 4 hours of instruction per week, plus some optional activities/excursions. But most schools will offer specialized and/or more extensive and/or one-on-one instruction at higher cost, which is likely what the OP would want in order to be able to pass a test. Well, and actually obtain a good level of fluency.


Best of luck!

 

[OldShooter]

We have never done a language school but have seen them frequently in the Road Scholar advertising. Like:

https://www.roadscholar.org/search?query=italian language

 

[Lagniappe]

I've done language immersion twice so far. After I retired in 2018, I went to Barcelona for ten weeks and went to classes 20 hours per week. I easily reached A1 level, A2 was a struggle and I never got through B1. The most challenging part was distinguishing Spanish and Catalan. I definitely would not recommend immersing yourself at class, then going to the grocery store and hearing a very different dialect.

Now I live in Portugal, and have tried immersion twice. I start again in January. Twenty hours per week in group classes, plus optional tutoring in the afternoon. I am finding it much harder to retain what I learn in class now that I am older.

Most helpful so far has been listening to Portuguese music, to the point where I can hum/ sing along. Then I try to figure out what they are saying. The pronunciation of European Portuguese is very different from Brazilian, and most popular TV shows that I could access before I moved here are in Brazilain Portuguese. Now that I am here, I find myself sitting in coffee shops, restaurants and malls listening to the flow of conversation regularly. I usually pick up about two words per sentence, if the speaker is talking slowly.

Fingers crossed that the third time is the charm, since I have to pass the A2 test to get permanent residency. It is definitely exercising my brain!

 

[braumeister]

Most helpful so far has been listening to Portuguese music, to the point where I can hum/ sing along.

Excellent point. When I found a singer who enunciated the lyrics of a song clearly, I loved it. Not only a great way to pick up good pronunciation and vocabulary, but very enjoyable at the same time.

 

[rodi]

Thanks Lagniappe. Did you have any Spanish before you did the first immersive program?

I'm hoping that my existing Italian will be enough to jump start me towards the B1. I signed up for a class (3rd semester equivalent) through edx/wellesley to relearn the conjunctive, trapassato, and gerund tenses. So hopefully starting with a higher base level will get me there. ... but if you started with decent Spanish before your 10 weeks then I may be kidding myself.

 

[Lagniappe]

Thanks Lagniappe. Did you have any Spanish before you did the first immersive program?

I'm hoping that my existing Italian will be enough to jump start me towards the B1. I signed up for a class (3rd semester equivalent) through edx/wellesley to relearn the conjunctive, trapassato, and gerund tenses. So hopefully starting with a higher base level will get me there. ... but if you started with decent Spanish before your 10 weeks then I may be kidding myself.

I started with zero Spanish, having never studied any language other than English, so with all of the work you've already done, you've got this!

 

[rodi]

Thanks Lagniappe.