Inappropriate Hugging?

[ivinsfan]

The fact that one of the young lady's being assaulted might have an uncaring, negligent mom doesn't change a thing.

Well I don't know I just know her Mom is her boss and if daughter had a problem with it, it literally would be no problem for her to speak to her own Mother.


So in this case alone I'm simply saying that the cart girl has an easy approach to expressing any concerns about this particular golfer.



Don't read anything more into my comments..

 

[LateToFIRE]

Well I don't know I just know her Mom is her boss and if daughter had a problem with it, it literally would be no problem for her to speak to her own Mother.


So in this case alone I'm simply saying that the cart girl has an easy approach to expressing any concerns about this particular golfer.



Don't read anything more into my comments..

I respectfully disagree with your assumption - no way for any of us to know that.

 

[easysurfer]

The old lech, before hugging a stranger should ask the young lady if it is okay to get a hug and then follow the answer. Simple enough.

If she has no problem and sees that as a big fat pigeon of a tip and boss mom doesn't really care, then it's a question of who is using who?

If the hugging is a common thing at that country club by many and this bugs the person attending, then maybe the person should think twice about attending.

That's why I asked before is the issue just one person or is this an environment thing?

 

[ivinsfan]

We all, sadly, know women who do not act in the best interests of other women. Women who don't mind that their daughter has to put up with a hug or three if it means Old Creep keeps paying them $100 every week for their golf and drinks. And sure, totally feasible that this particular young woman doesn't really think anything of it, and is happy to pocket the tips, and is using her attractiveness to manipulate money out of old fools. We can all put together possibilities that make this either horrible or not, whatever.

But none of that makes it right, it's not just this young woman, it's a behavior. Focus is on the wrong person, and should be on the dude, not one of his many targets.

I don't disagree however in this particular case the OP asked do I need to speak up and with the Mother being involved my answer would be No. Say your comment about Mom not minding is correct, perhaps DD feels the same way. Apparently there are two fully functioning female adults involved and neither one feels compelled to stop the hugging. The OP isn't a mindreader..

 

[ivinsfan]

I respectfully disagree with your assumption - no way for any of us to know that.

So now what, we are going to paint the MOM/Boss with uncaring and unable to talk to brush? That's harsh and unknowable to any of us. I'm going to assume that two women related by blood would address the issue if necessary. I'm not going to assume that Mom doesn't care or that DD is too weak to speak up for herself. See I'm acknowledging that women have power and can choose to exercise it or not. Her boss is her Mother not some uncaring good old boy.

 

[ivinsfan]

Perhaps her mom is saying "that is just the way it is" which I find unfortunate.

Now you want to start dinging on her Mom? Remember the daughter has said nothing to OP or the hugger about finding this uncomfortable, its the OP that finds it uncomfortable.

 

[jollystomper]

So now what, we are going to paint the MOM/Boss with uncaring and unable to talk to brush? That's harsh and unknowable to any of us. I'm going to assume that two women related by blood would address the issue if necessary. I'm not going to assume that Mom doesn't care or that DD is too weak to speak up for herself. See I'm acknowledging that women have power and can choose to exercise it or not. Her boss is her Mother not some uncaring good old boy.

We do not have the details of the mom either way. So why not error on the side of caution and be a gentleman? There are few things sadder than an old man desperate for the attention of a much younger woman .

 

[Texas Proud]

Lots of people putting their own thinking into this...


We do not know much about the lady... she could be very self aware and would not put up with this... I doubt that my 19 YO daughter would allow anybody to hug her that she did not want to... and I know that the daughter of my niece would probably hit the guy if he tried to hug her... she HATES hugs....


I am not sure as this has goon off the rails... is the the ONLY girl he hugs? Does he only hug young girls? Are the hugs really sexual in nature? Does she hug back? Or does she kinda put up with it?


As an example I will use my son... when he 'hugs' all he does is stick out his arms and lets the person between them... he never squeezes anybody (well, maybe his wife)...



Without being there and seeing it we all are making some huge assumptions in our answers... but since OP brought it up it probably IS a problem...

 

[Midpack]

Stated earlier (hard to follow the thread) but I've seen him 'hit on' young girls in a variety of ways at least a half dozen times - in every case it has been a server/customer situation. I haven't seen him act inappropriately with older women - that's why I think he knows better subconsciously. The one yesterday at the golf course has happened several times and for whatever reason it bothered me more yesterday than before. I was a little shocked at what she chose to wear yesterday, but again I am NOT saying that gives anyone the right to touch her. She lives and works with her Mom, I am a little surprised Mom condones it, but the girl is an adult.

I am sure there are lots of guys, all ages, who act inappropriately around her. Again, not OK.

The guy is not a best friend by any means, but I play golf with him and two other guys every Friday. Otherwise we enjoy each others company.

But I think I've come up with a way to change his behavior he might go along with. We'll see...

 

[Car-Guy]

if it means Old Creep keeps paying them $100 every week for their golf and drinks. And sure, totally feasible that this particular young woman doesn't really think anything of it, and is happy to pocket the tips, and is using her attractiveness to manipulate money out of old fools. We can all put together possibilities that make this either horrible or not, whatever.

Well in full disclosure, I'll admit I have tipped a couple of cocktail waitresses $100 a few times at the casinos. Of course they are paid to hustle drinks for tips and talk to the customers. My usual tip is $5 per drink but I've tipped a few that I know pretty well $100 a couple of times. But I never got or gave any hugs. It was all timing... They would sometimes bring me my drink and if the action was slow, they stop and chit chat for a few minutes. They knew full well if I had a really big win I'd give them a big tip. Funny, as soon as that happened, they'd go back to hustling drinks again.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Lots of people putting their own thinking into this...


We do not know much about the lady... she could be very self aware and would not put up with this.

She obviously does reluctantly endure the lech's hugs.

I am not sure as this has goon off the rails... is the the ONLY girl he hugs? Does he only hug young girls? Are the hugs really sexual in nature? Does she hug back? Or does she kinda put up with it?

OP said he does it with other young women.

The power dynamic aspect of the hug has already been explained. It doesn't matter what her reaction is. It's inappropriate for a 70 something man to hug young ladies that are unknown to him.

The young lady's clothing is irrelevant. This is not an invitation for a hug from a stranger. Reminds me of the story about the thief that was caught after trying to steal a Rolex from a jewelry store. His excuse? "If they didn't want them to be stolen why did they tempt me and put them on display in the store window?"

 

[Dash man]

Well in full disclosure, I'll admit I have tipped a couple of cocktail waitress $100 a few times at the casinos. Of course they are paid to hustle drinks for tips and talk to the customers. My usual tip is $5 per drink but I've tipped a few that I know pretty well $100 a couple of times. But I never got or gave any hugs. It was all timing... They would sometimes bring me my drink and if the action was slow, they stop and chit chat for a few minutes. They knew full well if I had a really big win I'd give them a big tip. Funny, as soon as that happened, they'd go back to hustling drinks again.

I once gave $100 to a girl at Starbucks that was always pleasant to me, because she was getting married the next day I put it in a card. She followed me out to the parking lot and gave me a huge hug. Nothing sexual and she initiated it. Totally different from a customer server situation IMO.

 

[Markola]

Hugs are no big thrill, are they? Just shake hands. If the divorced guy needs to be touched, he should pay for a massage or, if his need is extreme, visit Nevada.

 

[punkinhead]

If the hugging is a common thing at that country club by many and this bugs the person attending, then maybe the person should think twice about attending.

That's why I asked before is the issue just one person or is this an environment thing?

Just because bad behavior is common somewhere doesn't make it OK. Wrong is wrong, regardless of whether or not a bunch of other old leches go along with it. Casual racism used to be OK at a lot of clubs too.

 

[easysurfer]

Just because bad behavior is common somewhere doesn't make it OK. Wrong is wrong, regardless of whether or not a bunch of other old leches go along with it. Casual racism used to be OK at a lot of clubs too.

I asked the is it common to hopefully get some context. Context like say if that's a common thing, then that isn't that different if you go to a Hooters restaurant, probably shouldn't get upset if guys are checking out the waitresses as the reach up and restock the towels on the strategically placed paper towel shelves.

On the other hand, if that type of hugging isn't a thing at the country clubs, then there is more clarity.

Another example is like hazing at fraternities and sororities. Sadly, there are horror stories of victims from hazing gone to far. But also, since hazing has been a rite of passage for these organizations, one can't be totally shocked that hazing happens.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah I get it. I'm just a little sensitive about the subject.

Heh, heh, ain't we all?

 

[Koolau]

THIS 100%!

Saying a woman should be prepared for the environment is completely ignoring the problem. THE ENVIRONMENT SHOULDN’T EXIST!

Lots of things shouldn't exist - but they do.

But I agree - the guy is way out of line and it's up to his buddies to "deal" with it - if for no other reason that it reflects badly on THEM. Tell him "one more time and you're out of the group."

 

[LateToFIRE]

Lots of things shouldn't exist - but they do.

But I agree - the guy is way out of line and it's up to his buddies to "deal" with it - if for no other reason that it reflects badly on THEM. Tell him "one more time and you're out of the group."

Excellent point, I had not yet channeled - of course it reflects poorly on the other members of the group to be associated with this slimeball.

 

[chris2008]

But I think I've come up with a way to change his behavior he might go along with. We'll see...

Please let us know how it goes next Friday.

 

[JoeWras]

I only read the first post and last few. This sounds scarily familiar to a man I know who lives Midpack's way, except that man recently passed away.

We had to have an intervention with him and basically told him stop it, or get out of our lives. It worked, he changed his ways.

Doesn't matter what the golf cart girl, friend, church member, etc. think about it. This kind of behavior is out of line.

We need more hugs in this world (start with a quick side hug), but not this full on squeeze crap. The man I spoke of hurt my spine with his hugs. I can only imagine being a woman. Sleeze ball crap.

 

[Koolau]

I think the guy we are talking about here is being inappropriate so I am in no way defending him. I think I would inform the golf course management what is going on and let them deal with it.

But hugging is a very culture-dependent thing. In Hawaii, even in a business context you see a lot of it, generally not with strangers but sometimes with coworkers who otherwise are not well-acquainted, especially if someone is being honored or congratulated for something. Often there is even a "receiving line" after where it's a hug that is exchanged rather than a handshake. It is something that is addressed in the sexual harassment training that we get and is not considered harassment, though touching someone's butt outside clothes, even if accidental qualifies as sexual assault here. It is also customary to hug when giving a lei...and leis are often given at work for various reasons...so basically there is a lot of innocent hugging even at work here.

We were in Vegas earlier this year eating in a restaurant at a casino on the strip and the server recognized my partner as from Hawaii and not only gave us a "kama'aina" discount but also hugged everyone in our party as we got up to leave. (The server was from Hawaii). I've even seen US Navy ceremonies from Oahu where there is a lot more hugging associated with giving leis than you would ever see in, say, San Diego.

When I took my partner to meet some of my old friends in Europe this summer, mostly Scandinavia which is not as "huggy" as some countries, she was greeted with a hug by almost every one of my friends even though they had never met her before.

TLDR: Your guy is a creep but hugs can also be innocent and merely social these days, at least in some areas.

Yeah, I wasn't prepared for all the hugging when we moved to the Islands. It's especially "normal" at church (but, thanks to Covid, not nearly so much now.) I had to get used to it.

I read body language pretty well and could tell those who liked being hugged and those who did not. When I was "expected" to hug a female, I always took her shoulders with my hands and moved my cheek to hers. No other touching. Females who took the initiative for a full-body hug, I accepted with grace though it made me uncomfortable.

On the mainland, our church friends did a fair amount of hugging - but a lot less than I found in the islands. I took to wearing a button on the inside of my lapel. Sometimes I would flash it when a female came up to me. It was all in fun - but there was an element of truth behind it as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2958221281...MIsuSDqrXkgQMVYxqtBh3lQAb-EAQYASABEgLgbPD_BwE

 

[GenXguy]

Lots of people putting their own thinking into this...

Yeah, I never thought I would see so much reaction to a hug.

Geesh, this stuff happens all the time. No big deal. Let it go. Don't feel you need to get involved with everything that makes YOU uncomfortable.

Yeah, I wasn't prepared for all the hugging when we moved to the Islands. It's especially "normal" at church (but, thanks to Covid, not nearly so much now.) I had to get used to it.

Yeah, it's commonplace and no big deal. I know I won't be starting any threads just because I see someone giving hugs.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, I never thought I would see so much reaction to a hug.

Geesh, this stuff happens all the time. No big deal. Let it go. Don't feel you need to get involved with everything that makes YOU uncomfortable.

Personal space - though it differs from person to person - is a very big deal. People rarely talk about it, but it's real. It needs to be respected. So the old adage "when in doubt, don't" is a good place to start until you really get to know someone.


And if you want to bring it all down to cases - Women should initiate hugs unless there is intimacy already between the participants. Just my opinion, of course, so YMMV.

 

[GenXguy]

Personal space - though it differs from person to person - is a very big deal. People rarely talk about it, but it's real. It needs to be respected. So the old adage "when in doubt, don't" is a good place to start until you really get to know someone.

But the OP wasn't asking about doing the hugging themselves but about someone else hugging others. I wouldn't attack others for giving someone else a hug even if I wouldn't hug that person myself. It's often better not to get involved with things that don't concern you. I'm not going to be the hug police.

 

[aaronc879]

But the OP wasn't asking about doing the hugging themselves but about someone else hugging others. I wouldn't attack others for giving someone else a hug even if I wouldn't hug that person myself. It's often better not to get involved with things that don't concern you. I'm not going to be the hug police.

I agree. Unless the young woman was clearly not wanting the hug and the guy did it anyway or unless there was groping/fondling rather than just a friendly hug then I would not get involved.