Outdoor air and Corona Virus infections

[Teacher Terry]

Nevada just closed their bars but they left the casinos open. Ugh! Bars with outside patios feel it’s unfair since restaurants are open.

 

[harllee]

In my town bars cannot be open but restaurants can be open at 50% capacity and those restaurants can serve alcohol. So some restaurants got "smart" and started stay open until 2 am or later so they could be in effect a bar and serve alcohol to the late night crowd. This was turning into super spreader events. So our town council just passed an ordinance that all restaurants must close at 10 pm.

 

[explanade]

Some of the states where they have a lot of cases banned alcohol sales at bars but they could stay open if they served food.

Does that mean food for dining on the premises, on indoors tables?

Or only stay open to offer takeout and delivery?

 

[sengsational]

UVC is harmful to humans isn't it?

No. At least far UV-C doesn't penetrate into the cells of your body. This is unlike UV-A and UV-B, which penetrate to various distances (and cause damage).

 

[explanade]

No. At least far UV-C doesn't penetrate into the cells of your body. This is unlike UV-A and UV-B, which penetrate to various distances (and cause damage).

The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine reported that ultraviolet light probably can kill the coronavirus. "UV light has been shown to destroy other coronaviruses, so it will probably work on the novel coronavirus," the website reads. This includes the deadly Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome coronavirus, aka MERS-CoV and severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus, or SARS.

But there's one huge caveat: "UV light damages human skin, so it should only be used on objects or surfaces," the NASEM continues.

This means you should not use UV light as a hand sanitizer. Stick to washing your hands with soap and water (following proper hand-washing guidelines), or using an alcohol-based hand sanitizer when soap and water aren't available.

The WHO echoes this, reporting on its coronavirus myth-busters webpage that people should not use UV lamps to disinfect their hands or other areas of skin, as UV radiation "can cause skin irritation and damage your eyes."

https://www.cnet.com/health/can-uv-light-protect-you-from-covid-19/

UV-A and UV-B light cause sunburns and premature skin aging, and exposure to both is associated with the development of skin cancer. UV-C light, which has the most energy of all three types, is the most harmful, but it fortunately doesn't reach the Earth's surface because our atmosphere absorbs it.

 

[W2R]

Nevada just closed their bars but they left the casinos open. Ugh! Bars with outside patios feel it’s unfair since restaurants are open.

Our bars got completely closed down today, except for "to go" service. No more service either inside or outside at bars. BUT - - Restaurants can still seat customers inside if they want, and serve them alcohol there, no problem! "Here, have another drink." Makes me want to rage about forced morality standards, but hopefully there is some more reasonable explanation for this that I have not thought about. Bars have already been shutting down for good in droves so this should drive the nail into the coffin for hundreds more.

Also today the mask requirements got increased too, so not only do we have to wear masks inside business establishments, but we have to wear them anywhere outside if we are within 6' of anybody.

Another change today is that the few social gatherings like wedding receptions that were limited to 250 people are now limited to 50 people. Weddings and funerals are limited to 25 people. None of this makes any sense to me but I guess it doesn't have to. It is what it is, and if it helps then I suppose that in the long run the inconsistent details don't matter.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_r...cle_2e9ea220-c3a7-11ea-967e-3bfd28cf47b1.html

 

[cathy63]

Some of the states where they have a lot of cases banned alcohol sales at bars but they could stay open if they served food.

Does that mean food for dining on the premises, on indoors tables?

Or only stay open to offer takeout and delivery?

Here it means that the bar essentially becomes a restaurant. They can only sell drinks that are ordered with food and all of it must be served and consumed at tables that are 6 feet apart (or carried off premises as take out). Patrons cannot sit or stand around the bar while drinking or waiting for takeout. Same rules apply in restaurants that have a bar area.

Right now we have no indoor dining for the next 3 weeks, so all the tables are located outdoors, but still 6 feet apart. Also, bars and restaurants have to close at 10:00 PM.

 

[W2R]

Here it means that the bar essentially becomes a restaurant. They can only sell drinks that are ordered with food and all of it must be served and consumed at tables that are 6 feet apart (or carried off premises as take out). Patrons cannot sit or stand around the bar while drinking or waiting for takeout. Same rules apply in restaurants that have a bar area.

Now that makes a lot of sense to me! It sounds to me like bars and restaurants are all governed by the same rules in your location. Plenty of bars here are set up to serve meals too, but I thought all of them were being shut down, meals or not.

I need to go back and listen carefully to a recording of our governor's press conference today. Maybe that is what he is doing too, and I just didn't "get it".

 

[Dawg52]

We have actually ridden our bikes more this spring/summer than ever before and we have really enjoyed it. Traffic has been down to I feel safe to ride places I would not before because of all the traffic. I keep my mask in my pocket and put it on as necessary. The I feel like am getting too close to someone else I hold my breath and peddle fast.

Same here. Biking traffic is always down on the trails I ride during the Summer. I've also been playing lot's of golf. No one rides with me. There are no more than 4 people on the tee box at anytime and we spread out. Overall I feel my outdoor activities are plenty safe.

 

[Rianne]

The only way I'll consider indoor dining is if ventilation is upgraded. HVAC companies will be challenged with making sure air flow, proper ventilation from outside air and filtering systems are in place. My nephew started working with an HVAC company. Their exploring better filtering and ventilation systems for homes and businesses.

 

[sengsational]

https://www.cnet.com/health/can-uv-light-protect-you-from-covid-19/

Proof that you can find anything to support any position that matches ones initial notion


I challenge anyone to find a reference that says "Far UV-C" penetrates through layers of human cells.



LMGTFY (an article from Columbia University that says UVC "safely" kills airborne SARS-CoV2): https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw15vVkn-jZzpRTyy48azpr3

 

[harllee]

I would like advice--my Church has reopened for outside services. Everyone is masked and distanced except the minister who takes her mask off for the sermon, etc.. You have the choice of staying in your car and listening on the radio (which is what I did this past Sunday). Or you can bring a chair and sit outside, which is what most people did. Lat Sunday we probably had 60 people, around 20 in their cars and 40 in chairs. My question has to do with singing. It was my understanding that there was to be no singing--but to my surprise several hymns were sung. The only person without a mask was the minister and she was probably 20-30 feet in front of the congregation. What do people think about the outside singing?

 

[explanade]

I would like advice--my Church has reopened for outside services. Everyone is masked and distanced except the minister who takes her mask off for the sermon, etc.. You have the choice of staying in your car and listening on the radio (which is what I did this past Sunday). Or you can bring a chair and sit outside, which is what most people did. Lat Sunday we probably had 60 people, around 20 in their cars and 40 in chairs. My question has to do with singing. It was my understanding that there was to be no singing--but to my surprise several hymns were sung. The only person without a mask was the minister and she was probably 20-30 feet in front of the congregation. What do people think about the outside singing?

How does being there either in car or out in a chair work vs. listening on radio or other virtual services?

Do they go around with the collection plate? Whereas over the radio or the Internet, it's not as easy to hold out the plate for you to put your money in?

 

[sengsational]

I'd feel perfectly safe with masked singers if there was even the slightest breeze.

 

[REWahoo]

I'd feel perfectly safe with masked singers if there was even the slightest breeze.

Try to park/sit where you are upwind from the rest of the congregation.

 

[audreyh1]

What’s with the surprise singing? But if all the singers are wearing masks maybe it’s OK.

 

[athena53]

I'd be OK with masked singing outside with distancing. Odd, though. that they said n singing but then had it anyway.

 

[ivinsfan]

I would like advice--my Church has reopened for outside services. Everyone is masked and distanced except the minister who takes her mask off for the sermon, etc.. You have the choice of staying in your car and listening on the radio (which is what I did this past Sunday). Or you can bring a chair and sit outside, which is what most people did. Lat Sunday we probably had 60 people, around 20 in their cars and 40 in chairs. My question has to do with singing. It was my understanding that there was to be no singing--but to my surprise several hymns were sung. The only person without a mask was the minister and she was probably 20-30 feet in front of the congregation. What do people think about the outside singing?

I think people are never happy. Our church first week outside in our big grass rec area. ground marked for social distancing.. great plenty of space. no singing

2nd week people complaining moved inside the picnic pavilion so we could sit in "regular" rows somewhat spaced but as spaced as outside in the yard. no singing.

Next Sunday inside the picnic area with singing because it's just not the same without singing. Me... see ya all whenever

I would have sat in the car too, but I'm so tired of the nitpicking going on...just be happy you can gather on a Sunday, and give the most latitude you can to social distancing. like you could distance too much..

 

[harllee]

How does being there either in car or out in a chair work vs. listening on radio or other virtual services?

Do they go around with the collection plate? Whereas over the radio or the Internet, it's not as easy to hold out the plate for you to put your money in?

The cars are in the back of the Church parking lot and those in the chairs are in also in the parking lot but closer to the pastor. Since the cars are further away from the minister, there is a need for a radio broadcast --probably could not hear the sermon without the radio but you can see the pastor. Kind of like being at a drive in theater. The people in chairs are closer to the pastor so do not need the radio broadcast.

If you wanted to make a donation you raised your hand (you could stick your hand out of your car window) and a volunteer brought the plate to you. Personally I do not mess with the collection plate--I give online.

The service is also available later on the internet but it was nice to be at the Church (even though in the parking lot) and be able to at least see the pastor and our friends and wave to them.

 

[harllee]

I'd be OK with masked singing outside with distancing. Odd, though. that they said n singing but then had it anyway.

We did not go to the first couple of services our Church had. I think there was not singing at the first service but I understand that there was so many requests for hymns they were added. I guess I had just not kept up. I felt perfectly safe in my car but I did have some concern for those in the chairs regarding the singing.

 

[W2R]

I would like advice--my Church has reopened for outside services. Everyone is masked and distanced except the minister who takes her mask off for the sermon, etc.. You have the choice of staying in your car and listening on the radio (which is what I did this past Sunday). Or you can bring a chair and sit outside, which is what most people did. Lat Sunday we probably had 60 people, around 20 in their cars and 40 in chairs. My question has to do with singing. It was my understanding that there was to be no singing--but to my surprise several hymns were sung. The only person without a mask was the minister and she was probably 20-30 feet in front of the congregation. What do people think about the outside singing?

If I was the Empress of All Virus Mandates and it was entirely up to me, I'd feel like outside singing is perfectly OK if I am at least 20 feet from the singer, or 10 feet with masks on.

But, the rules here aren't up to me (I know, what a shock ). So, I'd also check and see if there is an official mandate against outdoor singing or musical events. I am honestly not sure; I thought there was a new rule announced yesterday that prohibits any outdoor live music in Louisiana, but when I checked briefly just now, I couldn't find that rule. To me the rules are all very confusing but I figure why not stick to them the best I can, to give them a chance to work.

 

[harllee]

If I was the Empress of All Virus Mandates and it was entirely up to me, I'd feel like outside singing is perfectly OK if I am at least 20 feet from the singer, or 10 feet with masks on.

But, the rules here aren't up to me (I know, what a shock ). So, I'd also check and see if there is an official mandate against outdoor singing or musical events. I am honestly not sure; I thought there was a new rule announced yesterday that prohibits any outdoor live music in Louisiana, but when I checked briefly just now, I couldn't find that rule. To me the rules are all very confusing but I figure why not stick to them the best I can, to give them a chance to work.

In NC where I am there was a lawsuit by some Churches early on and the Court ruling was that Churches are free to do whatever they want under Freedom of Religion. Some Churches here are open for inside services (I would definitely not go to that), some are doing outside services and some are only doing virtual services.

Except for Churches, in NC outside events are limited to 25 people but it appears to me that many establishments are ignoring this.

 

[explanade]

Here's a pastor who said they took all kinds of measures except requiring masks.

He stopped counting the number of infections among his members.

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news...ovid-19-gave-counting-chu/527332/#/questions/

 

[athena53]

Here's a pastor who said they took all kinds of measures except requiring masks.

He stopped counting the number of infections among his members.

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news...ovid-19-gave-counting-chu/527332/#/questions/

I couldn't see any mention of distancing, though- just a separate area for people who considered themselves "vulnerable".

My church is meeting inside in a large sanctuary that would hold multiples of our average Sunday attendance, pews roped off, everyone wearing masks except the when they need to be heard (praying, doing a reading or preaching). No singing by anyone. No coffee hour, no communion wine. Some people skip communion and that's fine. too. We first met on May 31 and so far so good.

 

[explanade]

I couldn't see any mention of distancing, though- just a separate area for people who considered themselves "vulnerable".

My church is meeting inside in a large sanctuary that would hold multiples of our average Sunday attendance, pews roped off, everyone wearing masks except the when they need to be heard (praying, doing a reading or preaching). No singing by anyone. No coffee hour, no communion wine. Some people skip communion and that's fine. too. We first met on May 31 and so far so good.

Maybe there still isn't good air circulation?

If people went inside these giant cathedrals like St. Peter's Basilica, there's a lot of space but if people spoke a lot or coughed, where would the droplets and aerosols go?

Droplets would drop to the ground but aerosols may hang in the air, unless there was a lot of air circulation. Aerosols or small droplets would carry a lot less virus but if they just kind of hang over people?