Sleep pattern and sleeping pills

[Car-Guy]

This topic seems to keep coming on this forum, and that's okay since it's a common and sometimes long term problem for many. For me too. Initially I got prescriptions for Ambien and then Lunesta but they are for shorter term use and left me feeling hungover the next day. I tried every OTC sleep aid I could find, but finally tried Unisom (the doxylamine succinate version). I've been taking it for 10+ years and still works very well. If I stop it for a few days, my sleep problem returns. Of course, YMMV

 

[11522914]

This topic seems to keep coming on this forum, and that's okay since it's a common and sometimes long term problem for many. For me too. Initially I got prescriptions for Ambien and then Lunesta but they are for shorter term use and left me feeling hungover the next day. I tried every OTC sleep aid I could find, but finally tried Unisom (the doxylamine succinate version). I've been taking it for 10+ years and still works very well. If I stop it for a few days, my sleep problem returns. Of course, YMMV

+1

I actually learned about Unisom on this forum. Just make sure you get the right one which is the orange label.

It works great. It works so good that we only take 1/2 a pill now and it still works as good as taking a full pill.

 

[mystang52]

I'm not familiar with Rivotril, but I am a lifelong insomniac...going as far back as childhood. A long time ago I learned to adapt to little sleep due to insomnia. On occasion, I will take a low dose Ambien, when I've had multiple consecutive bad nights. There are many anecdotal horror stories about Ambien, but for me it is a miracle drug without any side effects.

 

[Turbo29]

+1

I actually learned about Unisom on this forum. Just make sure you get the right one which is the orange label.

It works great. It works so good that we only take 1/2 a pill now and it still works as good as taking a full pill.

The Kirkland Sleep Aid from Costco is also doxylamine but much cheaper than Unisom (Two 96 tablet bottles for ~$7) I only need 1/4 to 1/2 pill.

 

[Sunset]

When I have had a few nights in a row of not sleeping long enough, I take Diphenhydramine HCL 12.5 mg and sleep well.

It's an allergy pill OTC, and sleepiness is the side effect, I used to take 1 pill, but found it too powerful.

A lack of sleep (IMHO) can lead to an early death.

 

[Dawg52]

I take Amitriptyline and it has really helped with my rest at night. Weight gain is a possible side effect. I recently started cutting the pill in half(from 25mg) and it still seems to do the job for me. I've tried getting off of it completely but I wake up at 2 or 3 in the morning and struggle getting back to sleep.

 

[pacergal]

I also have had problems with my sleep.
Started my quest for better sleep with a sleep study, just to make sure I had no issues. Actually, I have had two as DH told me I was still snoring!
The snoring goes away if I get good sleep.

Things I have tried:
Benadryl (works well, inexpensive and OTC, but I feel groggy the next day, even on half dose)
Ambien--ugh, awful side effects of sleep walking, etc
Sleepytime tea--works ok
CBD and/or CBD/THC gummies--work well.
Melatonin--worked well for a while, then stopped
Xanax, small dose worked very well with out problem, but suddenly at 65, Dr said it "was dangerous for elderly"!

Things that work well consistently and that I continue:
Meditation daily, both breathing, stretching, and music (Calm app is wonderful, and paid for via our medicare!)
Dr prescribed small dose Trazodone instead of xanax--works very well, as it also helps with underlying anxiety. I take half dose most nights, try to skip two nights a week.

We also have room black out shades on windows, and air purifier that has a low ambient sound.

Being retired, I really don't worry about how many hours of sleep I get at a time. My problem is getting to sleep at the start. Most nights, once asleep, I can sleep 5-6 hours straight, sometimes can go back to sleep. Most of the time, I get up and start my day, often at or before 5 am. Take a nap during the day if I get too sleepy--that is the beauty of retirement!

Best wishes on your quest for a good nights sleep! Find what works for you.

 

[GenXguy]

I get about 5 hours broken sleep with some variation. Adults should get 7 to 8 hours.

Here's my experience with some different things:

Melatonin - various dose sizes / brands - Worthless, never did anything
Benadryl / Diphenhydramine - doesn't help much at all
Unisom / Doxylamine - doesn't help much at all
Trazodone - doesn't help much at all
Hydroxyzine - doesn't help much at all
Ambien - works well to get me asleep and no side effects (use small dose overnight)
CBD - various doses up to 120mg, Worthless, doesn't help at all
THC - various doses to 10mg, Worthelss, doesn't help at all
Xanax - limited effectiveness, it's another benzo
Nortriptyline - doesn't help at all
Magnesium Glycinate - doesn't help at all
L-Theanine - doesn't help at all
GABA - doesn't help at all
Glycine - doesn't help at all
NAG - doesn't help at all
Valerian Root - doesn't help at all
5-HTP - doesn't help at all
Inositol - doesn't help at all
Taurine - doesn't help at all
Lithium Orotate - doesn't help at all
Gingko Biloba - doesn't help at all
NAC - doesn't help at all
CoQ10 - doesn't help at all

Calm app / Meditation / Sleep stories - doesn't help at all
Playing crickets/katydids/cicadas video overnight helps some

Caffiene - don't consume after 9 to 10 AM

100's of other tips have been useless.

The suggestion above to get exercise for 4 hours per day is a little ridiculous. I exercise almost every day for 1 to 2 hours in the summer as it is, and I don't sleep any better than I do in the winter when getting much less exercise. So, it's just like most tips, not helpful for me, but few people have such screaming non-maskable tinnitus heard above everything.

 

[Sojourner]

In terms of sleep medications, there is one highly effective one that I haven't seen mentioned yet: zaleplon (aka Sonata). It is in the class of sleep aids usually known as Z-drugs, because they all have the letter z in the name. Zaleplon is different (and better, IMHO) than other Z-drugs because it has a very short elimination half-life and because it does not disrupt sleep architecture. This means that it's only in your system for about 2 hours after you take it, and it doesn't alter the pattern of one's natural stages of sleep. I've been using it for about a year to help with early morning insomnia, and it's been very effective for me. I'm not aware of any studies indicating that long-term use is harmful. It's available as an inexpensive generic, but does require a prescription.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

I'm curious- have any of you tried this approach? Did you find it worked or didn't work? I'm on 1/2 unisom most nights, but still feel groggy in the mornings. I've tried various prescriptions. Maybe this is the next thing to try for me.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I hesitate to mention, some doctors also prescribe Doxepin as a sleep aid.

I take Doxepin for urticaria but it is also used as a sleep aid to help fall back to sleep faster when awaken for bathroom breaks. It is non-habit forming and a safe drug. It has some negative side effects (you can google it). Most doctors prescribe a very low dose for insomnia, like 5mg to 10mg. With urticaria, I am prescribed for up to 125mg per night. I find that 50mg is the sweet spot for insomnia for me. These days, I need only 25mg to keep control my urticaria but I take 50mg if I want to sleep better.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

When I need to break a bad sleep pattern, 150-300mg of Gabapentin will usually do the trick.
Works very well for late cycle deep sleep, not so much for getting to sleep. I take it 1 1/2 hours before bed time.
To get to sleep after struggling for an hour or so, occasional low dose Ambien/Zolpidem.
In either case, I use them as temporary sleep aids, not habitually.

 

[SunnyOne]

I'll throw out a couple things not mentioned here already in case they might help someone (they are helping me).

Apigenin - derived from chamomile. Refer to Dr. Huberman podcast for more details. He actually has a whole episode called "Sleep Toolkit" which is helpful.

Back To Sleep from Nature Made: blend of melatonin, theanine and GABA.

Of course meditation as well, but that's previously mentioned.

 

[GenXguy]

I hesitate to mention, some doctors also prescribe Doxepin as a sleep aid.

I take Doxepin for urticaria but it is also used as a sleep aid to help fall back to sleep faster when awaken for bathroom breaks. It is non-habit forming and a safe drug. It has some negative side effects (you can google it). Most doctors prescribe a very low dose for insomnia, like 5mg to 10mg. With urticaria, I am prescribed for up to 125mg per night. I find that 50mg is the sweet spot for insomnia for me. These days, I need only 25mg to keep control my urticaria but I take 50mg if I want to sleep better.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/sleep-pattern-and-sleeping-pills-119378.html#post2991626

I believe it's even officially FDA approved for sleep maintenance. It doesn't have the best reviews for insomnia. But the side effects would almost be certainly non-starters for me.

 

[GenXguy]

Back To Sleep from Nature Made: blend of melatonin, theanine and GABA..

I mentioned those 3 supplements separately in my last post. I actually took those together and separately both. Totally ineffective for me at various doses. Ambien is a z-drug like another one mentioned here, and works well. I don't use it every night but quite often to get a little more sleep after waking 3 or 4 AM.

 

[GenXguy]

I'm curious- have any of you tried this approach? Did you find it worked or didn't work? I'm on 1/2 unisom most nights, but still feel groggy in the mornings. I've tried various prescriptions. Maybe this is the next thing to try for me.

I have seen mixed feedback on other forums about CBT-i. Some people apparently benefited some or a lot, and some would benefit temporarily only to return to their old insomnia. Some people couldn't handle the sleep restriction.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/sleep-pattern-and-sleeping-pills-119378.html#post2991626

I believe it's even officially FDA approved for sleep maintenance. It doesn't have the best reviews for insomnia. But the side effects would almost be certainly non-starters for me.

Agree... hence I said that I hesitated to mention Doxepin. It is effective for sleep maintenance but side effects are undesirable. I have stopped taking for periods when my urticaria is under control. It is godsend for my condition. It was a choice between wanting to be alive or not because my urticaria was so miserable.

 

[Sunset]

.....

We also have room black out shades on windows,......

..... Take a nap during the day if I get too sleepy--that is the beauty of retirement!

....

We use blackout curtains, it's like we are Vampires.

Sometimes a nap in the afternoon really helps me, DW makes sure I don't nap more than 1 hour so I won't ruin the night sleep.

 

[pacergal]

In terms of sleep medications, there is one highly effective one that I haven't seen mentioned yet: zaleplon (aka Sonata). It is in the class of sleep aids usually known as Z-drugs, because they all have the letter z in the name. Zaleplon is different (and better, IMHO) than other Z-drugs because it has a very short elimination half-life and because it does not disrupt sleep architecture. This means that it's only in your system for about 2 hours after you take it, and it doesn't alter the pattern of one's natural stages of sleep. I've been using it for about a year to help with early morning insomnia, and it's been very effective for me. I'm not aware of any studies indicating that long-term use is harmful. It's available as an inexpensive generic, but does require a prescription.

It is a sedative/hypnotic, and generally not recommended for longer than 5-6 weeks, due to risk of side effects including addiction/habituation/abuse. FDA has approved only for short term therapy.

If it works well for you and your Dr is willing to continue to prescribe, be cautious.

 

[Sojourner]

It is a sedative/hypnotic, and generally not recommended for longer than 5-6 weeks, due to risk of side effects including addiction/habituation/abuse. FDA has approved only for short term therapy.

If it works well for you and your Dr is willing to continue to prescribe, be cautious.

Yes, I have been thinking about tapering off over the next few weeks/months, since I definitely do not want to rely on something like this on a daily basis for years into the future. My doctor does not seem concerned at all (so far), but I am going to discuss it with him in more depth next month at my annual physical. The "good" thing about my insomnia is that it typically only happens after I've slept naturally for about 5 hours, so I just take the zaleplon to get those final 2-3 hours in the early morning. I would think from a physiological standpoint, that's better than having to take it at bedtime every night. But certainly, I'd prefer a more natural long-term solution that doesn't involve a prescription sedative/hypnotic.

 

[GenXguy]

It is a sedative/hypnotic, and generally not recommended for longer than 5-6 weeks, due to risk of side effects including addiction/habituation/abuse. FDA has approved only for short term therapy.

If it works well for you and your Dr is willing to continue to prescribe, be cautious.

Ambien / Zolpidem (another Z drug) is supposed to be for short term treatment also, but I've been taking it for almost 20 months. But, I almost never take it to go to bed, and I only take about 1.5 mg sublingual on average most days, and I haven't had to increase that. In fact, when I started the med, I was taking 5 mg at bedtime, so I am taking less now. But that small dose makes the difference between lying awake hours or falling asleep in a little while. On one of the forums I'm on, a guy mentioned he's been taking it for 20 years. Someone on this forum mentioned they were taking pieces of Ambien sublingually, which is where I got the idea. It makes it work like the sublingual version of zolpidem called Intermezzo which comes in 1.75 and 3.5 mg doses.

 

[bmcgonig]

Ambien / Zolpidem (another Z drug) is supposed to be for short term treatment also, but I've been taking it for almost 20 months. But, I almost never take it to go to bed, and I only take about 1.5 mg sublingual on average most days, and I haven't had to increase that. In fact, when I started the med, I was taking 5 mg at bedtime, so I am taking less now. But that small dose makes the difference between lying awake hours or falling asleep in a little while. On one of the forums I'm on, a guy mentioned he's been taking it for 20 years. Someone on this forum mentioned they were taking pieces of Ambien sublingually, which is where I got the idea. It makes it work like the sublingual version of zolpidem called Intermezzo which comes in 1.75 and 3.5 mg doses.

That may have been me. I have been taking ambien on and off for 15 years. Rarely need it to fall asleep. Just if I wake at 2am etc. I think in all those years I’ve taken the full 10 mg only once or twice for jet lag. Always 1.5-2mg sublingually. Some months I never need it and others I need it a lot. Depends on what sleep cycle I’m going through I guess. Like you I have tinnitus and it’s great for those times when it’s loud.

 

[JackJester]

Geeze. I see a lot of drugs mentioned on this thread. I too have had an issue with waking up at 3AM and can't fall back to sleep until 5ish..for most of my adult life. This was a big deal when I was w@rking and had to get up at 5 regardless. Not so much now that I can sleep until whenever. But when I do really need that sleep I take Ashwagandha. It's a natural stress reliever. 2 of these pills will cause my thoughts to focus less on what activities await me for the next day vs just chilling out. Please try some Ashwagandha vs some of this harder prescription stuff mentioned on this thread.

 

[pacergal]

My son has been using Ashwagandha tea at night to help with his sleep. I had forgotten that.
He has found benefit from it.

 

[bobandsherry]

Geeze. I see a lot of drugs mentioned on this thread. I too have had an issue with waking up at 3AM and can't fall back to sleep until 5ish..for most of my adult life. This was a big deal when I was w@rking and had to get up at 5 regardless. Not so much now that I can sleep until whenever. But when I do really need that sleep I take Ashwagandha. It's a natural stress reliever. 2 of these pills will cause my thoughts to focus less on what activities await me for the next day vs just chilling out. Please try some Ashwagandha vs some of this harder prescription stuff mentioned on this thread.

How many mg are your pills?