Sleep pattern and sleeping pills

[GenXguy]

That may have been me. I have been taking ambien on and off for 15 years. Rarely need it to fall asleep. Just if I wake at 2am etc. I think in all those years I’ve taken the full 10 mg only once or twice for jet lag. Always 1.5-2mg sublingually. Some months I never need it and others I need it a lot. Depends on what sleep cycle I’m going through I guess. Like you I have tinnitus and it’s great for those times when it’s loud.

Ahh, yes. Indeed it was you.

I seem to never go more than a few days without taking it. Also, sometimes some pieces seem less bitter like they have less medication in them, so I might take a second if I don't fall asleep. They switched me to the Aurobindo / Northstar source of zolpidem, which I thought was initially less effective, so I had them get me back to the Torrent source of zolpidem, but it doesn't seem as strong or consistent as it used to - less bitter and effective. So I might have them switch me back to Aurobindo or switch to a different one from Teva, if they still have it. I haven't tried Teva.

Trazodone doesn't work that well for me, and all those supplements seem completely ineffective.

 

[bmcgonig]

Ahh, yes. Indeed it was you.

I seem to never go more than a few days without taking it. Also, sometimes some pieces seem less bitter like they have less medication in them, so I might take a second if I don't fall asleep. They switched me to the Aurobindo / Northstar source of zolpidem, which I thought was initially less effective, so I had them get me back to the Torrent source of zolpidem, but it doesn't seem as strong or consistent as it used to - less bitter and effective. So I might have them switch me back to Aurobindo or switch to a different one from Teva, if they still have it. I haven't tried Teva.

Trazodone doesn't work that well for me, and all those supplements seem completely ineffective.

Trazadone makes me groggier if I wake up at 2-3am. I think I’m more likely to fall back asleep if I’m taking it. I limit it to 25-50mg. It’s actually shown in studies to help deep sleep. Peter Attia says that it increased his deep sleep without sacrificing his REM sleep so he takes it every evening. I would definitely favor it over something like Unisom which for many years has had an association with dementia. Funny enough benzodiazepines don’t have that association. Who knows if those associations or lack thereof are real.

Interesting about different brands of Ambien. I didn’t know, Definitely some are much more bitter than others. It’s a bit of a penance at 2am but well worth it I think.

 

[GenXguy]

Trazadone makes me groggier if I wake up at 2-3am. I think I’m more likely to fall back asleep if I’m taking it. I limit it to 25-50mg. It’s actually shown in studies to help deep sleep. Peter Attia says that it increased his deep sleep without sacrificing his REM sleep so he takes it every evening. I would definitely favor it over something like Unisom which for many years has had an association with dementia. Funny enough benzodiazepines don’t have that association. Who knows if those associations or lack thereof are real.

Interesting about different brands of Ambien. I didn’t know, Definitely some are much more bitter than others. It’s a bit of a penance at 2am but well worth it I think.

I really like when I taste a strong bitterness. I feel like I'm getting a good shot of zolpidem rather than a dud. lol

 

[Tessie]

I am fortunate, I usually sleep like a baby, However, I want to weigh in on Clonazepam. I have taken it for 20 years for anxiety. I have always taken the same dosage of .5 mg. I know they say you can become dependent on it but that has not been my experience. When I worked, I took it first thing in the a.m. now that I’m retired I take it on an as needed basis which is usually only once a week or so. So I have absolutely no concerns about becoming dependent on it or increasing my usage. It’s a very inexpensive drug but yes, you might want to get more prior to returning to the states. Since it is a controlled substance you could run into a problem with a pcp not wanting to prescribe it. Not sure.

 

[TXBev]

My mother had a little glass of cherry brandy when she got in bed. I fall asleep in minutes but the bladder wakes me several times a night. Too much fluid late at night but then I fall right back to sleep. Sometimes a foot or leg cramp gives you a bad time but when it is over, I go back to sleep. I do have a very bad case of sleep apnea but I throw off the c pap after about an hour. I have the simplest one that just goes under your nose - does not do me any good on the floor.

Everyone has a bad night once and awhile. They say get up and read or something until you are sleepy. These over-the-counter drugs that are not habit forming are habit forming. But the different ideas are interesting and maybe helpful.

 

[Mansderm]

I'm one of those people who wants to know why and what is going on. I'd buy a sleep tracker, mine is the Oura ring. It measures sleep stages, sleep duration, heart rate, Oxygen saturation, breathing rate and temp. Any doc prescribing a drug for sleep should take an extensive history.. there are many factors that can affect sleep. I would definitely want to know what lifestyle factors I can alter to help.

With the Oura ring, I've had nights where I didn't think I slept well, but when I review my data, it's not as bad as I thought I've had other nights where it was worse than I thought. Meditation can help a lot and Oura has some features to help you prepare for sleep.

Medically, you want to make sure you don't have a medical condition that could be interfering like thyroid, blood sugar, or other metabolic issues or a physical impairment like sleep apnea ( the Oura ring can pick up changes that might suggest apnea).

If I resorted to drugs, I'd definitely want to see the effects documented by my sleep tracker.

 

[harley]

I don't really have a chronic sleep problem, but I do occasionally run into nights where my brain is whirring and I can't get to sleep. When I have a few days in a row like that, I eat a couple of Bettie's Eddies, edible marijuana 10mg candies intended to help you sleep. I take them shortly before bed, so I don't get any buzz from them. But it relaxes me, takes the edge off, and I sleep through the night. It also tends to carry through for the next few nights, until something comes up to overstimulate my mind again.

 

[Koolau]

Well it's easy to have that opinion when you don't need them.

I have a long Word document with all those tips and far more, but they're aren't helpful to a lot of people, especially if you have the equivalent of 2 smoke alarms going off in your ears due to terrible unmaskable tinnitus.

Habits often have nothing to do with it. Medication is absolutely necessary sometimes for some people. Don't assume everyone has a more typical case of insomnia.

I think you're right about those not having the problem. I do not and I give thanks for that. I do have tinnitus, but somehow I get to sleep about the time my head hits the pillow - most nights. So, I won't offer any other advice than to w*rk with a TRUSTED doctor - whether meds or not. Good luck to all. Sleep is very important.

 

[Odduck]

The best I ever remember sleeping was in college where I had a 6am class and ended up sleeping 2-3 hours in the early afternoon. It strikes me that in retirement, people tend to stick with all sorts of behaviors that come from careers' worth of indoctrination. Sleep schedules might be an area to try something very different.

 

[Hermes]

Seroquel + psychotherapy

I highly recommend Seroquel (probably extended release) for sleep. It's been around for over 25 years and hasn't shown any major side effects.

May I also suggest psychotherapy for your sleep? You may still need the drugs, but it's worth a shot to need less drugs or not need them at all.

 

[GenXguy]

I highly recommend Seroquel (probably extended release) for sleep. It's been around for over 25 years and hasn't shown any major side effects.

May I also suggest psychotherapy for your sleep? You may still need the drugs, but it's worth a shot to need less drugs or not need them at all.

I have that in my notes, never took it:

Quetiapine (Seroquel) Depression add-on / Anti-psychotic: - It can treat bipolar disorder, and depression. Effective for sleep with larger dose - side effects, significant weight gain

It would not be a first line treatment.

 

[maestro]

Good sleep is a beautiful gift. I'm sorry you have issues getting that. I have and will continue to refuse pharmaceutical 'experiments' issued by doctors and their PA's as long as possible. You know what they're doing, right? I've had VERY good results with melatonin at 5mg. Basically for free and non-narcotic, and like any 'supplement' or vitamin, it may take a few weeks for your body to adjust and get into the rhythm of its benefits. Sweet dreams, and Peace.

 

[harley]

DW, who does have sleeping issues, is going to try Reishi mushroom extract. We'll give it a few weeks, then I'll pop back in and let everyone know how it works for her. I'm sticking with the MM edibles.

 

[ItsTime]

Kirkland Signature Sleep Aid

I am someone who has been taking the Kirkland Signature Sleep Aid (ingredient in Unisom) for the past 15 years. I typically break a tablet into thirds and just take 1/3 each night. My primary physician has stated at this dosage level I am fine taking it daily but I would ultimately prefer not to. I have tried to ween off it altogether but each time I end up with sleepless nights even though the stress of the corporate grind was left behind nearly two years ago. Tried melatonin as another option but did not work for me.

 

[fh2000]

I am someone who has been taking the Kirkland Signature Sleep Aid (ingredient in Unisom) for the past 15 years. I typically break a tablet into thirds and just take 1/3 each night. My primary physician has stated at this dosage level I am fine taking it daily but I would ultimately prefer not to. I have tried to ween off it altogether but each time I end up with sleepless nights even though the stress of the corporate grind was left behind nearly two years ago. Tried melatonin as another option but did not work for me.

I am the OP.

So, I tried Kirkland Sleep Aid per your post. The pill is small, but strong. If I take the whole pill, I can sleep whole night for almost 8 hours, only if I do not need to get up and pee. But the next day, I will be drowsy all day.

I tried 1/2 a pill, or 1/3 of the pill, I can seep 7 hours and feel dizzy the next day still.

I read that it is still not good for the body if taking it long term. I will just need to use it occasionally when I absolutely need it.

 

[Turbo29]

I am the OP.

So, I tried Kirkland Sleep Aid per your post. The pill is small, but strong. If I take the whole pill, I can sleep whole night for almost 8 hours, only if I do not need to get up and pee. But the next day, I will be drowsy all day.

I tried 1/2 a pill, or 1/3 of the pill, I can seep 7 hours and feel dizzy the next day still.

I read that it is still not good for the body if taking it long term. I will just need to use it occasionally when I absolutely need it.

I use Kirkland Sleep Aid occasionally. I take 1/4 of a pill. I can't imagine what would happen if I took a whole pill.

 

[GenXguy]

I am someone who has been taking the Kirkland Signature Sleep Aid (ingredient in Unisom) for the past 15 years.

Alert!

Kirkland Signature Sleep aid has 25 mg Doxylamine.
Unisom Sleep Gels have 50mg Diphenhydramine. These are different ingredients. Not all Unisom products have the same ingredient. Unisom Sleep Tabs have Dolylamine.

So, I tried Kirkland Sleep Aid per your post. The pill is small, but strong. If I take the whole pill, I can sleep whole night for almost 8 hours, only if I do not need to get up and pee. But the next day, I will be drowsy all day.

I use Kirkland Sleep Aid occasionally. I take 1/4 of a pill. I can't imagine what would happen if I took a whole pill.

Doesn't work for me. Neither 25mg Doxylamine or 50mg Diphenhydramine seem to have much effect, if any, on my sleep, and it's not because of tolerance because I rarely take them. Melatonin does nothing for me. Hydroxyzine 25mg and Trazodone 50mg don't help to any noticeable degree, either, nor many supplements like l-theanine and a dozen others, CBD, or THC, all ended up worthless.

What works? Ambien (Zolpidem) just 1.5mg (partial pill) helps me get back to sleep if I wake up overnight.

I have a friend who has good luck with Xanax. Ambien and Xanax require a prescription.

 

[dmpi]

For one reason or another people have messed up sleep schedules. What worked for me was I forced myself to stay awake all day long without any naps and no caffeine after 6:00 in the evening. It was tough at the beginning but my body got use to it and now it's no problem.

 

[rodi]

For one reason or another people have messed up sleep schedules. What worked for me was I forced myself to stay awake all day long without any naps and no caffeine after 6:00 in the evening. It was tough at the beginning but my body got use to it and now it's no problem.

My sister refers to this as good 'sleep hygiene'. Have a set schedule and routine at bedtime. Force yourself to follow it. Don't nap if you didn't get enough sleep the night before - just go to your sleep routine at bedtime.

For me, I'm an early to bed, early to rise type... so around 8:30-9 I head upstairs and do the face/teeth/jammies thing. Then read a book for about 30 minutes. I have ZERO trouble falling asleep. I wake up, without an alarm between 5:30am and 6am. Rinse and repeat.

When I was still working and had 9pm conference calls, and a few days later a 5am conference call with our team in India my sleep was a mess. Thank goodness retirement lets me set my own schedule... and I prioritize bedtime and the bedtime routine.

 

[GenXguy]

For one reason or another people have messed up sleep schedules. What worked for me was I forced myself to stay awake all day long without any naps and no caffeine after 6:00 in the evening. It was tough at the beginning but my body got use to it and now it's no problem.

6 in the evening? If I had caffeine anywhere near that late, I would be up all night. I cut off by 9 AM if I have regular coffee. I have found in past that finishing off my last cup around 10 AM was too late, although for the last 8+ months, I have rarely had regular coffee. I never take naps, but in fact, I couldn't fall asleep in the middle of the day even if I tried, despite averaging about 5 hours of sleep each night. I've tried all the sleep hygiene tips that are repeated online ad nauseam liked fixed schedules every day, even stuff like weighted blanket, but no help. I normally can initially fall sleep ok, it's just that I wake up a different times and can't get back to sleep for a while, and sometimes not at all unless I take Ambien, and then always waking in the morning before I've had enough sleep - about 2 hours too little for me.

 

[Nash]

Drugs are bad. Drugs for sleep are extremely bad.

And you're not actually sleeping; you're basically comatose.

This will end badly.

 

[W2R]

Drugs are bad. Drugs for sleep are extremely bad.

And you're not actually sleeping; you're basically comatose.

This will end badly.

Well, that's the way I feel about pills to aid sleep, too. But realistically, almost nobody agrees with us. I figure, let them do what they want. As for me, it's my life and I'll do what I want:

 

[GenXguy]

Drugs are bad. Drugs for sleep are extremely bad.

And you're not actually sleeping; you're basically comatose.

This will end badly.

Easily said for someone who doesn't need medication to help sleep.

I only take enough Zolpidem to get me back to sleep, usually about 1/8th of a pill in a dose. I definitely sleep better and feel better now taking some Ambien almost every night over the last couple years than going two straight nights with no sleep at all like before I ever took it over two years ago.

You should look into newer sleep meds called Dual orexin receptor antagonists (DORA). They work different than antihistimines and sedative medications. But insurance may not cover or have higher co-pays. Full retail in U.S. is like $330 to $530 per month. You might be able to get a coupon for the first 15 days or month for less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orexin_antagonist
https://www.quviviq.com/lindseys-story/
https://www.dayvigo.com/

 

[Koolau]

What works? Ambien (Zolpidem) just 1.5mg (partial pill) helps me get back to sleep if I wake up overnight.

I have a friend who has good luck with Xanax. Ambien and Xanax require a prescription.

Ambien and Xanax are powerful drugs with significant side-effect profiles and risk of dependence. Maybe occasional use would be okay (Xanax for getting through a day or two of sleeplessness because of specific stresses should not be problematic for most people.) I wouldn't want to be taking these drugs on a daily basis if there were any other options with better side-effect profiles available. BUT, I'm no doctor and have no particular qualifications on the subject. Therefore YMMV.

 

[GrayHare]

If Ambien works for you, OTC valerian probably will too because of similar chemistry, however valerian is not as powerful, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective.