US continues the decline in Retirement Happiness

[photoguy]

I respectfully beg to disagree with you on the bolded point, having lived in both countries.

I also disagree with you on Canada's immigration system, which favours people with in-demand skills.

+1

There's a huge difference in social mobility in Can vs US. I suspect many of the factors that lead to increased mobility also cause can to score higher in the OP study.

 

[Scuba]

I wonder if it has to do with whether or not the government provides for a person's retirement, or an individual has to provide for themselves. Here in the USA, we have SS to help retirement, not provide 100% of the funding.

I have heard that many other countries, provide a much better government pension.

+1
Socialist countries seem high on the list.

 

[brucethebroker]

I wonder if it has to do with whether or not the government provides for a person's retirement, or an individual has to provide for themselves. Here in the USA, we have SS to help retirement, not provide 100% of the funding.

I have heard that many other countries, provide a much better government pension.

+1-was wondering the same.

Also, if they have "free" govt. provided health care, or they allow retirement with full pension at 50-55. Those would make a BIG difference on the happy meter!

 

[Dash man]

+1
Socialist countries seem high on the list.

Where does Venezuela fall on the list?

 

[Big_Hitter]

I wonder if it has to do with whether or not the government provides for a person's retirement, or an individual has to provide for themselves. Here in the USA, we have SS to help retirement, not provide 100% of the funding.

I have heard that many other countries, provide a much better government pension.

that has a lot to do with it - I'm almost certain all of the countries listed above the US have a tier 1 "universal demogrant" program. For example, a tier 1 program provides subsistence level benefits to anyone turning age 65 with no needs test.

SS is considered a Tier 2 program, similar to Canada's CPP.

If it makes you feel any better all of those countries have much higher tax rates to pay for those benefits.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Apparently the person that did this survey hasn't talked to me or RobbieB! It must be a sad life having to come up with articles and surveys looking to depress people. Everything seems to be gloom and doom in the media. I think retirement in the United States is wonderful and I strongly recommend it to everyone I know that is nearing the end of their working years.

Yeah, they didn't ask me, either.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Apparently the person that did this survey hasn't talked to me or RobbieB! It must be a sad life having to come up with articles and surveys looking to depress people. Everything seems to be gloom and doom in the media. I think retirement in the United States is wonderful and I strongly recommend it to everyone I know that is nearing the end of their working years.

retirement in the US is great if you've saved enough $$$ or have a pension (like most er.org forum members)

the majority don't and that's why US residents are working well past age 65; they can't afford to retire on $50K 401k balances plus SS

 

[6miths]

In retirement happiness, as in so many things these days, we are a stratified society. I would bet the top 10-20% of NW retirees in the US would find themselves comfortably at or near the top of that survey - while sadly (and perhaps disgracefully) the bottom 50% might prove not much more comfortable than retirees in the developing world.

Same as it ever was.

Actually seems not to be the case. I am reading a book called 'The Crisis of the Middle Class Constitution - Why Economic Inequality Threatens our Republic'. It is a discussion of how the US Constitution as it was written was dependent on equality and a strong middle class and reviews several economic indicators. It turns out that in the late 1700's the top 1% of Americans earned 8% of all income (this included slaves in the population) as opposed to 19% in 2012. The Gini coefficient at that time was 0.441 (again including slaves) and 0.409 not including slaves. The Gini coefficient in 2012 was 0.463 and this is after taxes and transfer payments to the poor. In the late 1700s in the most equalitarian countries in Europe (UK and Holland) the Gini's were at or just above 0.6. Europe's Gini coefficients have dropped dramatically since the 1780s while America's have risen. The last time America had Gini's similar to 1780s was in 1973.

The list given is very close to the ranking of Gini scores which is a rating of income inequality (i.e. the fewer relatively very poor and very rich, the happier people are). Norway's current Gini score is 0.259. Canada's is 0.336. The US is 0.411 with Russia next on the list at 0.416 (Gulp!).

 

[6miths]

Well, as regarding our north neighbor, I do not see any reason for their happiness other than health care system. Because in fact Canada (especially Ontario part) is pretty much the same as US in almost every aspect. But still, moving north is not easy: you need to be an investor or have close relative in order to obtain residence in Canada: otherwise, you're not qualified for happiness.

I respectfully beg to disagree with you on the bolded point, having lived in both countries.

I also disagree with you on Canada's immigration system, which favours people with in-demand skills.

I always seem to be agreeing with Meadbh. Not that Canadians are prone to fighting or even being rude Alex but your words would be greeted with "Them's fightin' words." by most Canadians. Superficially the countries look very similar and more and moreso thanks to multinational corporations but there are many significant differences in addition to healthcare systems.

 

[Breedlove]

Not wanting to be political , I think a lot has to do how the tax dollar is spent , and on things that help people . One time in Amsterdam I seen a guy pull up an brand new Harley Davidson . I was admiring the new bike and I asked the guy how much for a new HD in the Netherlands , he told me 50,000.00 EU. I said wow , and asked how much was the taxes on that bike . He told me nearly 50% and also said he was happy paying the taxes because he felt he got is money's worth . I don't feel we as people get our money's worth in the U S

 

[F4mandolin]

Now the UK pension will be moved to 68 in 20 years......for those who work tough physical jobs this is a killer.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Now the UK pension will be moved to 68 in 20 years......for those who work tough physical jobs this is a killer.

yeah but 68 will be the new 48 in 20 years

 

[kcowan]

What? No comments on Iceland? You are all missing an opportunity. Free hot water!

 

[Mdlerth]

...as long as they can get their quota of lutefisk.

I'll see your lutefisk and raise you one haggis.

 

[braumeister]

I'll see your lutefisk and raise you one haggis.

Oh yeah?
Well, I'll see your haggis and raise you a Kæstur hákarl.

With an egg cream to wash it down.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

The USA seems to be declining in anything Health Related......

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Where does Venezuela fall on the list?

I saw a video recently, they looked very happy.

 

[meierlde]

Actually seems not to be the case. I am reading a book called 'The Crisis of the Middle Class Constitution - Why Economic Inequality Threatens our Republic'. It is a discussion of how the US Constitution as it was written was dependent on equality and a strong middle class and reviews several economic indicators. It turns out that in the late 1700's the top 1% of Americans earned 8% of all income (this included slaves in the population) as opposed to 19% in 2012. The Gini coefficient at that time was 0.441 (again including slaves) and 0.409 not including slaves. The Gini coefficient in 2012 was 0.463 and this is after taxes and transfer payments to the poor. In the late 1700s in the most equalitarian countries in Europe (UK and Holland) the Gini's were at or just above 0.6. Europe's Gini coefficients have dropped dramatically since the 1780s while America's have risen. The last time America had Gini's similar to 1780s was in 1973.

The list given is very close to the ranking of Gini scores which is a rating of income inequality (i.e. the fewer relatively very poor and very rich, the happier people are). Norway's current Gini score is 0.259. Canada's is 0.336. The US is 0.411 with Russia next on the list at 0.416 (Gulp!).

The author of the book is wrong. Recall that Shay's rebellion was a strong driver of the constitutional convention. Shay's rebellion was against foreclosures etc in western MA by creditors from Eastern MA (also including at the time throwing folks in jail for debts). The federalists believed that only people of means should be able to vote also. Consider also that the constitution did not forbid slavery, and it is hard to call it a document in favor of equality, rather a document to protect the middle and upper classes against the rabble. (Indeed this was a big part of the argument between John Adams as well as Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson as well as James Madison (who both favored those who worked on the land)

 

[Midpack]

You've heard of preaching to the choir? Posting that article here would be (predictably) just the opposite...

 

[MichaelB]