Virginia Tech shooting and gun control

[tryan]

One thing we can all agree on ... making guns illegal would be as effective as our current drug laws .... only those who use them illegally will find them.

 

[Culture]

Or Islamunifascists, right?

No, I actually meant airplanes. The point is, any nutcase (Christian, Muslim, secular humanist, or fill-in-the-blank) can fly an airplane into a building.

 

[TromboneAl]

One of my daughter's best friends goes to Virginia Tech, so I guess that right now, there's about a 1 in 1,000 chance that she's dead.

 

[dumpster56]

I have a bad feeling here. There is a preliminary ID of the dead shooter but we are not getting any info of this person.

Gotta wonder why info is being withheld.

 

[riskadverse]

I have a bad feeling here. There is a preliminary ID of the dead shooter but we are not getting any info of this person.

Gotta wonder why info is being withheld.

Because if they make a mistake about the identity they will get sued. I'm a big one for conspiracy theories, but making sure of the identity before they release it doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy.

 

[Nords]

Because if they make a mistake about the identity they will get sued. I'm a big one for conspiracy theories, but making sure of the identity before they release it doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy.

Gotta talk to the families first.

 

[dumpster56]

Gotta talk to the families first.

I am talking about the shooter.

Student? From some other place?

The bomb threats last week?

 

[yelnad]

The shooter's family still needs to be notified, since he killed himself.

They also said he had no ID on him, although some students said he was of Asian descent. That doesn't narrow it down much.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Yeah, not only do they have to tell the family he's dead...they'll have to reveal they suspect he's the gunman. Yuck for all.

As I understand it from several sources including VT's college paper, a male and female were killed in the first (dorm) building and 31 (including gunman, I suppose) were killed in the class building a couple of hours later.

I wondered about the "asian" identity, especially after seeing a photo of an asian man prone and apparently under arrest. I presume that's not the gunman because he reportedly killed himself. I then found a witness account from a shot-up classroom that said she was one of four people who walked out of the classroom after an asian man peeked into the room a couple of times as if looking for someone and then shot up the class.

So my take from what they're saying is this guy shot a boy and girl at the dorms, headed to the class building, chained some exits to prevent escape and then shot up a classroom full of people after appearing to look for someone in the class, and possibly shot a few others in the building before killing himself.

Also, the university apparently lifted a lockdown between the two shootings. I'm sure we'll hear more about that.

 

[Goonie]

The City of Chicago has a hand gun ban. Has for several (many) years. Yet just about everyday IN the City of Chicago, people are being murdered by a**holes with hand guns. The only people in Chicago that the ban has affected are the law-abiding citizens that were requested/required to turn in their hand guns. The criminal element still have and use hand guns.

Instead of banning guns, ban criminals!

Gun control is a steady hand, a sharp eye, and a gentle squeeze. 8)

 

[livnlow]

A one person Chinese army has some people talking about giving up our right to bear arms. I would have thought a larger invasion would have been required. No force is required to strip an American of his rights. Just scare him a little and he'll be throwing away his rights in exchange for "safety". Seems familiar. The world is watching and learning.

Ironically, one armed American could have stopped the carnage before 32 innocent Americans were slaughtered by a foreigner.

 

[dumpster56]

A one person Chinese army has some people talking about giving up our right to bear arms. I would have thought a larger invasion would have been required. No force is required to strip an American of his rights. Just scare him a little and he'll be throwing away his rights in exchange for "safety". Seems familiar. The world is watching and learning.

Ironically, one armed American could have stopped the carnage before 32 innocent Americans were slaughtered by a foreigner.

I am starting to think we all need to be packing a gun. Lets get trained.

Seriously there has been a strange change over the past 40 years where men have well lost it. I mean every week there is a shooting someplace in america.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Morbid humor: I'm sure I am going to hell for enjoying this, but a repeated refrain I saw on both Fark and Slashdot is:

"Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays."

If you can stomach that, then this thread at Fark may be worth reading. Some of the posters are VT students that were on or near campus as news was unfolding, and there's a gradual realization at the gravity of the situation. Of course there are also jokers posting bad jokes in bad taste, especially before it is known that there are 10+ dead.

Also, the VT campus newspaper is apparently temporarily here and seems to be more on top of the situation than many traditional media outlets.

 

[janeeyre]

This guy was looking for a blood bath. A ban on assult weapons would not have helped in this case. He would have bombed a crowded building or set fire to it if he had to. I just heard that the authorities think that he is the one responsible for the previous bomb threats.

 

[LeatherneckPA]

Are you saying that a disgruntled, non-athletic kid (that is, not a Navy Seal) could kill 31 people at a school with a knife?

1, 10, 31 doesn't matter. And as far as untrained persons doing this, I have had to intervene in far too many stabbings over my years with guys who were using improvised or homemade weapons. I seen what these kids straight off the hard streets can do. And I have also witnessed the speed and alacrity with which the avergae John Q can get the hell out of Dodge rather than take an active part in subduing said maniac.

Could he have done 31? Probably not. A dozen, good chance.

Would stricter gun control have worked? No. Australia outlawed ALL guns several years ago. And their violent crime rate using guns has actually risen. Florida, on the other hand, enacted a "must issue" concealed carry law and their violent crime rate has dropped. If strict gun control laws are the answer, please explain the crime rates in CA, MA, NY, NJ, and DC; homes to the strictest gun control laws in the lands. Oh yeah, and home to the highest violent crime rates in the land too.

 

[perinova]

No punishment or other deterrent would prevent anyone who blows a fuse to do a rampage like this one.
The solution is to ban assault weapon for everyone but the army!!! Most police work doesn't even need this kind of weapon.

Only weapons used for defense or hunting should ever be sold. And registered and licensed.

I equate gun manufacturing to tobacco manufacturing. It is beyond me that powerful market interests can successfully go against the wellfare of the whole society by lobbying Congress.

 

[Joss]

It's stunning how common it is in this age to blame the weapon rather than even voice the question: How could a human being be able to do this?

Is this because we are too horrified to contemplate an answer? If we don't ask the question, perhaps we won't have to directly address what our societies are becoming - and why?

Or have we become so shallow and ignorant, now, that it no longer even occurs to us?

Either, candidly, disgusts me.

 

[lets-retire]

Perinova--Just to be fair the military doesn't even use assault weapons any more. The M-16 is not capable of shooting full auto, one thing that is required of an assault weapon. The only weapons that actually shoot fully automatic are too large and bulky to be classified as an assault weapon. The last ban was on scary looking military style weapons, not assault weapons. A person must have a firearms license to own the old school assault weapons. I do not have one, but Know several people who have the license and from what they said they went through a very thorough back ground check lasting several months.

In the situation at VT, an assault weapon wasn't used, so how would banning them have made the campus safer?

 

[dex]

From the discriptions on the news the shooter had a "handgun and a .22" with a vest full of magazines. My guess is that the "handgun" is a Glock. For the 9mm you can get a 30 round magazine that are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. There are several 9mm Glocks - 17 - full size; 19 - medium; 26 compact. All are semi automatic - one trigger pull one discharge.

More conjecture - magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds were band by the "Brady Bill" that expired a couple of years ago. I'm sure this will come up in the media as some sort of significant issues. But it really isn't. With a handgun that uses a magazine it is a simple matter of exchanging one magazine for another. The term for it is a "Tatitical reload" before the gun is empty (one round in the chamber) you take out the empty magazine and put in a full one.

 

[dex]

A one person Chinese army has some people talking about giving up our right to bear arms. I would have thought a larger invasion would have been required. No force is required to strip an American of his rights. Just scare him a little and he'll be throwing away his rights in exchange for "safety". Seems familiar. The world is watching and learning.

Ironically, one armed American could have stopped the carnage before 32 innocent Americans were slaughtered by a foreigner.

I think the quote is something like "He who gives up liberty for security has gained nothing." Any help here?

 

[perinova]

It's stunning how common it is in this age to blame the weapon rather than even voice the question: How could a human being be able to do this?

Is this because we are too horrified to contemplate an answer? If we don't ask the question, perhaps we won't have to directly address what our societies are becoming - and why?

Or have we become so shallow and ignorant, now, that it no longer even occurs to us?

Either, candidly, disgusts me.

There are societal problems that could be solved and reduce this kind of incidents (reduce the stress on people?). However It is not blaming the weapon to recognize that we should make sure they don't fall in the wrong hands!

I understand your point and your question is valid... however you didn't propose an answer to the question that you have asked.

 

[perinova]

Perinova--Just to be fair the military doesn't even use assault weapons any more. The M-16 is not capable of shooting full auto, one thing that is required of an assault weapon. The only weapons that actually shoot fully automatic are too large and bulky to be classified as an assault weapon. The last ban was on scary looking military style weapons, not assault weapons. A person must have a firearms license to own the old school assault weapons. I do not have one, but Know several people who have the license and from what they said they went through a very thorough back ground check lasting several months.

In the situation at VT, an assault weapon wasn't used, so how would banning them have made the campus safer?

I admit ignorance about this kind ofcweaponry. My opinion mostly relates to the need for weapons that can reload fast (?) and do a rampage in a crowd. If this guy have had no access to such a weapon the students would have been able to jump on the guy and control him. (well... easier said than done...)

How many of those puppies are traveling in our society? Who has them and what are they doing with them?
I have heard that the "clips" allowing for fast reload and shoot many rounds had been banned at some time. What good does it do if they are still in people's basements and be passed around at will?

 

[TromboneAl]

chained some exits to prevent escape

I've seen the news media make this assumption. It's also possible that he chained the exits to slow down interference from the police.

DW's friend that goes to VT is OK.

 

[lets-retire]

Perinova--The only solution to your position seems to be to ban all weapons that hold more than one round. This would lesson the usefulness of the firearm in hunting and would lead to more wounded animals wandering around only to die during the winter. That would be a pointless death. The ban you speak of limited the number of rounds a magazine could hold to, I believe, 10 rounds. This lowered the number from 15 rounds. Either way it doesn't make much difference. It only requires the shooter to reload more frequently and someone who is mildly experienced with a semi-auto pistol can reload rather quickly. Revolvers are a bit slower and require more practice to reload quickly, but then all the shooter has to do is carry more pistols.

Al--The doors were chained. A friend of mine was on scene and confirmed this.

 

[tryan]

Is magot was outnumbered, what, 100 to 1, maybe 500 to one inside the building. Allow me a simple question: How could everyone stand by and watch while the doors are chained shut THEN watch while 20+ people are lined up and executed.

Post 911, how are we still so complacent? He KILLED HIMSELF !