Where to live after ER Why?

[1-31-18]

After traveling excessively for MegaCorp, I don't need the above charts to tell me where to live in early retiement.

As someone that's grown up on the lake, a waterfront lot is required. After 12 years dealing with debilitating traffic in Atlanta, I prefer a medium size town that's no more than an hour or two from large cities. For medium size cities to have sufficient culture, a university or two is preferred. And low property taxes and low state income taxes to go along with cheap housing is the icing on the cake.

I found many such cities on the Tennessee River with a very high lifestyle on a budget. There are also many southern college towns that fit the bill.

We have a 6 mile sunset view across the lake, and a boathouse that's 27 steps from our front door. Two incredible golf courses on our street--see https://www.rtjgolf.com/theshoals/. Our local music scene is incredible, and our theatre community is thriving. Three large cities are 2 hours out and the worlds' smartest city (Huntsville) is an hour away. We have no property taxes because my wife's on social security disability--but taxes are 1/4th that of the surrounding states.

And living "On Golden Pond" is just great.

The data for my zip code are 31, 37, 106, 382. It's the Lakeview neighborhood of Chicago. I look out my window at the largest stretch of public access waterfront in any city in the world. We don't have a couple universities nearby. We have a couple of the best universities in the world nearby -- and a dozen others. I've lived in ten different states (military brat) and find that this makes a difference.

There's also a mediocre public golf course across the street, but we don't play golf so the quality of the course is a matter of indifference to us. We do enjoy the world-class museums, symphony and opera. While the neighborhood is youthful, it's also pretty affluent, but not in a "keep up with the Joneses" sort of way. That would be the suburbs 10 miles and further to the north, or the Gold Coast two miles south. We figure that condo living will be ideal when we are much older, as almost all of the recurring maintenance is bought and the elevator means there are no stairs to climb. No water damage from storms. No snow to shovel. No need for a car, either: Express buses stop at our front door. My building has residents of every age, from newborn babies to octogenarians.

Gay people -- we are straight -- are welcome here. Liberals and conservatives -- we are independent -- ditto. Bona fide diversity in the neighborhood is enriching.

I have lived in several small towns. Indeed have lived in three of them that are so small that the federal government subsidizes airplane service for their residents. "Nice" people, but provincial and dreadfully boring people and places, in my view. Suitable for rest, but not for entertainment.

But then, as the saying goes, how are you going to keep them down on the farm once they see the city lights? In retirement, I suppose, some want rest more than entertainment.

The only annoyance I feel about my place (apart from the non-trivial risk of crime) is that the low income taxes and property taxes in this domain are probably unsustainable. But we can afford to pay increased amounts if that happens.

 

[Hermit]

... "Nice" people, but provincial and dreadfully boring people and places, in my view. Suitable for rest, but not for entertainment.

But then, as the saying goes, how are you going to keep them down on the farm once they see the city lights? In retirement, I suppose, some want rest more than entertainment...

So is this an abject lesson on how to win friends and influence people?

 

[HFWR]

Plano, TX...38.1...34.4...$83.8k...$299.3k

I sneaked in while no one was looking...

 

[1-31-18]

So is this an abject [emoji151][emoji162]lesson on how to win friends and influence people?

No. And no offense intended.

Yet a speech in favor of the virtues of small-town or pastoral retirement merits a reply in favor of the big city. That's a common trope in English literature. "Come live with me and be my love," et cetera, followed by a defense of the court.

I'd like to visit more small towns in America, and the few states that I've missed, but prefer to live in center city Chicago, thank you, for the reasons stated.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Where we are in NE Florida:

42.31, 42, $71.8k, $300k

 

[Ronstar]

Our house in Il 41 38 63 229

Condo in Az 44 37 116 580

As drilled down to neighborhood

 

[Revlefty]

The data for my zip code are 31, 37, 106, 382. It's the Lakeview neighborhood of Chicago. I look out my window at the largest stretch of public access waterfront in any city in the world. We don't have a couple universities nearby. We have a couple of the best universities in the world nearby -- and a dozen others. I've lived in ten different states (military brat) and find that this makes a difference.

There's also a mediocre public golf course across the street, but we don't play golf so the quality of the course is a matter of indifference to us. We do enjoy the world-class museums, symphony and opera. While the neighborhood is youthful, it's also pretty affluent, but not in a "keep up with the Joneses" sort of way. That would be the suburbs 10 miles and further to the north, or the Gold Coast two miles south. We figure that condo living will be ideal when we are much older, as almost all of the recurring maintenance is bought and the elevator means there are no stairs to climb. No water damage from storms. No snow to shovel. No need for a car, either: Express buses stop at our front door. My building has residents of every age, from newborn babies to octogenarians.

Gay people -- we are straight -- are welcome here. Liberals and conservatives -- we are independent -- ditto. Bona fide diversity in the neighborhood is enriching.

I have lived in several small towns. Indeed have lived in three of them that are so small that the federal government subsidizes airplane service for their residents. "Nice" people, but provincial and dreadfully boring people and places, in my view. Suitable for rest, but not for entertainment.

But then, as the saying goes, how are you going to keep them down on the farm once they see the city lights? In retirement, I suppose, some want rest more than entertainment.

The only annoyance I feel about my place (apart from the non-trivial risk of crime) is that the low income taxes and property taxes in this domain are probably unsustainable. But we can afford to pay increased amounts if that happens.

You didn't mention the fabulous bicycle trail that runs along the lakefront!

 

[Huston55]

This thread has prompted some interesting discussion about our FIRE location preferences and methodology for satisfying them.

I agree that data (age, income, COL, etc.) is a good place to start research in the comfort of your own home; climate, education, transportation & safety should also be considered [starting to sound like Places Rated Alamanac isn't it?]. This info will tell you a lot about affordability, suitability & demographics. I also absolutely agree that, when it comes to FIRE locations, one should look well beyond the FIRE date & well into the future.

But, beyond that, my experience tells me one has to touch & taste a place to really know if it's the right one (or one of the right ones because, there's almost never just ONE right place). That must be done either over a lifetime (because of one's/parent's work) or, as a focused FIRE research effort (10+/- yrs of vacations to potential locations) or both. Then, one can be relatively certain of choosing a good FIRE location.

Here's hoping that we chose well. ��

 

[braumeister]

my experience tells me one has to touch & taste a place to really know if it's the right one (or one of the right ones because, there's almost never just ONE right place).

I absolutely agree. I've eliminated some places based on spending a few days there, and added others (to my surprise) the same way.

Before I would actually make such a big move, I would definitely spend a week or two in the specific area at two widely separated times of the year.

 

[MikeWillRetire]

I don't live at The Villages in Florida, but I was interested in their data:
70.5 41.8 57k 257k

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I don't live at The Villages in Florida, but I was interested in their data:
70.5 41.8 57k 257k

Central Florida is simply too damn hot. Summers are brutal. Homes could be $50k and still the summer remains brutal. JMHO of course I could be wrong.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Wow, we should probably move. CD shows my town's media home value in 2015 (my house is pulling this down) at $880K.

But our little house is just right for us, and bloom where you're planted, and the devil you know all figure into our decision to stay.

ETA: better, I drilled down to specific neighborhood and median home value drops a couple of hundred K. Whew. We can stay.

 

[FIREmenow]

We're planning on choosing a waterfront town to retire in.

We're leaving Spring of '19 to do the Great Loop in our boat, after retiring next fall. Will sell everything, including house first, and move aboard for a year - maybe two - traveling around. We'll move the boat to different coastal towns and try each one out.

We'll decide based on that - or when we get tired of living aboard, whichever comes first.

 

[imoldernu]

A quick thought about Florida being hot. We still have a mfg. home in FL, about 13 miles from The Villages. While we were snowbirds, we debated long and hard about living in central FL. Deciding factor wasn't the heat, but the overworked medical/health care, and being too far away from family.
As to the heat... June through August ... hot.... BUT...

At our age, not too many 100 mile bike rides, or hiking. So... everything else is
air conditioned.... Car, house, clubhouse, stores, restaurants etc. The longest "hot" time is from the house to the car. One gets used to it... 'specially as we grow older.
All of the tennis, shuffleboard, pickleball, and bocce, happen in the morning when it's still cool.

 

[CaliKid]

After traveling excessively for MegaCorp, I don't need the above charts to tell me where to live in early retiement.

As someone that's grown up on the lake, a waterfront lot is required. After 12 years dealing with debilitating traffic in Atlanta, I prefer a medium size town that's no more than an hour or two from large cities. For medium size cities to have sufficient culture, a university or two is preferred. And low property taxes and low state income taxes to go along with cheap housing is the icing on the cake.

I found many such cities on the Tennessee River with a very high lifestyle on a budget. There are also many southern college towns that fit the bill.

We have a 6 mile sunset view across the lake, and a boathouse that's 27 steps from our front door. Two incredible golf courses on our street--see https://www.rtjgolf.com/theshoals/. Our local music scene is incredible, and our theatre community is thriving. Three large cities are 2 hours out and the worlds' smartest city (Huntsville) is an hour away. We have no property taxes because my wife's on social security disability--but taxes are 1/4th that of the surrounding states.

And living "On Golden Pond" is just great.

That place sounds and looks great! I could live there. I don't think my wife could though. She hates the humidity.

 

[Out of Steam]

As to the heat... June through August ... hot.... BUT...

At our age, not too many 100 mile bike rides, or hiking. So... everything else is
air conditioned.... Car, house, clubhouse, stores, restaurants etc. The longest "hot" time is from the house to the car. One gets used to it... 'specially as we grow older.

One of the issues of aging is not being uncomfortable in temperature and humidity that are, in fact, unsafely hot. When my mother was elderly, Meals on Wheels was very concerned that the people they visited had and used air conditioning on very hot days.

 

[1-31-18]

A quick thought about Florida being hot. We still have a mfg. home in FL, about 13 miles from The Villages. While we were snowbirds, we debated long and hard about living in central FL. Deciding factor wasn't the heat, but the overworked medical/health care, and being too far away from family.
As to the heat... June through August ... hot.... BUT...

At our age, not too many 100 mile bike rides, or hiking. So... everything else is
air conditioned.... Car, house, clubhouse, stores, restaurants etc. The longest "hot" time is from the house to the car. One gets used to it... 'specially as we grow older.
All of the tennis, shuffleboard, pickleball, and bocce, happen in the morning when it's still cool.

This sounds attractive to me. I checked out The Villages, twice, and decided that city life was more pleasing to me. Also, my lady has a health issue that makes Florida heat and humidity problematic for her. She would go to TV with me if I wanted that strongly, but I don't want to put her through it and I prefer city amenities in the end. Yes, this includes the 22 miles of bike path out my front door; but TV has that, too.

The folks who live in TV tend to enjoy the reality that it's almost always all about folks their age. Disney for retired people. Full-time fun. Believe me, I get it, and I wouldn't knock anyone for choosing it.

 

[explanade]

Why is housing in Boulder so expensive?

Median income is $58-59k but the median home is $584k?

But Seattle has a higher median income, $80k while median home is $530k?

 

[Smileonherface]

Relocation Remorse??

So I am not even certain I am on the appropriate thread but just need a sounding board today. We relocated to Ca from Pa a year ago after ER. Purchased a small farm with the intent of multigen lifestyle with adult children who live here. Organic farm in the works. Husband loves the isolation of farmlife. Children are very happy they do not have to travel to Pa for visits lol. I have joined a bookclub and met some nice women to lunch with periodically. I also enjoy quiet time and sewing so that is great. I find myself wondering if I made a mistake buying into my family's dream. I thought an adventure would be a good idea but not so sure now. Plenty of culture nearby, can afford the lifestyle, but to be honest, careless drivers on tough highway and abundance of homelessness wherever you go is something I am not used to. Anyhow...I find myself cruising online for condos back home in Pa and wanted to see if anyonw out there has moved away and then back. You can always go home again...or can you? Btw my aging mom and siblings still live in Pa. Appreciate hearing any of your experiences with this.

 

[Hermit]

Why is housing in Boulder so expensive?

Median income is $58-59k but the median home is $584k?

But Seattle has a higher median income, $80k while median home is $530k?

Building restrictions. Areas just outside Boulder are more reasonable.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Why is housing in Boulder so expensive?

Median income is $58-59k but the median home is $584k?

But Seattle has a higher median income, $80k while median home is $530k?

Maybe Boulder has more single family and Seattle more condos (which I believe are less expensive and would bring the median home value down)?

 

[travelover]

So I am not even certain I am on the appropriate thread but just need a sounding board today. We relocated to Ca from Pa a year ago after ER. Purchased a small farm with the intent of multigen lifestyle with adult children who live here. Organic farm in the works. Husband loves the isolation of farmlife. Children are very happy they do not have to travel to Pa for visits lol. I have joined a bookclub and met some nice women to lunch with periodically. I also enjoy quiet time and sewing so that is great. I find myself wondering if I made a mistake buying into my family's dream. I thought an adventure would be a good idea but not so sure now. Plenty of culture nearby, can afford the lifestyle, but to be honest, careless drivers on tough highway and abundance of homelessness wherever you go is something I am not used to. Anyhow...I find myself cruising online for condos back home in Pa and wanted to see if anyonw out there has moved away and then back. You can always go home again...or can you? Btw my aging mom and siblings still live in Pa. Appreciate hearing any of your experiences with this.

Welcome to the forum. You might want to start a new thread and an introduction. A separate thread will get you much better answers.

 

[Scuba]

If weather and nature and diversity are priorities for you, So CA is hard to beat. The problems of traffic and crowds largely disappear in retirement as one doesn't have to go out during peak times.

 

[aknowhow78]

OK, I'll play. I added where I live to your list, but I used the county since it is the suburbs and the numbers for the little town I live in are probably not statistically significant. We want to eventually move somewhere cheaper, more for taxes than real estate reasons.

City Median age - State Median age- HH Med income - Med house value

Peru,Il.................... 45...38....47K....128K
Boulder Co............. 29...36....5kK....584K
San Francisco CA.....38...36....92K....941K
Austin TX.................32...34...56K....235K
Tampa FL.................35....42...44K...190K
Seattle WA..............36....38...80K...530K
Raleigh NC...............33...38....57K...227K
Chicago IL...............34...37...51K....239K
Nashville TN............34...38...51K....185K
Las Cruces NM.........33...37...41k....154K
Boise ID..................35...37...55K.....209K
Des Moines IA..........35...38...49K....119K
Carson City, NV.........43...38...42K...237K
New Orleans, LA.......36...36...39K...316K
Frederick Co., MD.....38....38...84K...312K

We also live in Frederick MD and taxes here is outrageous. We too have plans to move upon retirement in 4 years.

I have a built home in northern Thailand that I can go to live when I'm ready bu to for now I'll be taking a couple months at a time, considering buying a place in Vegas because I love to gamble

Median income could be a predictor for certain kinds of amenities, I'm thinking restaurants, off hand.

 

[Winemaker]

Here in Grapetown; 36......40......36.2k.....103.7

We paid no state or local taxes on 401k, and pension income. Property taxes <$4500.

Let's go Pens!