College tuition: How much is too much?

[pb4uski]

Late to the discussion, but it sounds like the OP's son (and the OP) are both sensitive to balancing education cost with education benefits. Generally speaking, if the chosen field typically requires a Masters or PhD, it doesn't much matter were undergrad is done as long as it is a credible college and you do well.... so to spend alot on a "name" school undergrad degree is wasteful and it would be best to save your ammo for the cost of grad school.

It does remind me of when I was a junior in HS and considering careers. I was into hunting and fishing those days and considered becoming a game warden so I could spend a lot of time outside and it was connected to hunting and fishing. Then I learned what pay levels were and decided that I didn't want to be "poor" (relatively) and switched my career plans.

 

[HarveyS]

$53k x 4 is too much for a psych degree - and it sounds like he is hedging an "undecided major" when he brings up that UW offers a full menu and does them all well. Plus, if he changes majors and adds a 5th year......
I like Closet_gamer's approach. Your son is bright and can make a good decision with all the facts. Help him see all the facts and the impact of his decision today on his life 10 years from now. Re-visit the schools as he is now a year older and will have a different experience today from a year ago.
In the end, he needs to own the decision or at the first problem he may blame you instead of working thru it.
We had a similar issue with my DD. She was accepted to many well known (and high cost, no scholarship) schools as well as several state schools. We took a trip to re-visit several schools. In the end, she saw the benefit of going to a state school (with one of the best programs in the nation for her field of study) and skipped the "designer label" universities . She now has 529 $ for graduate school.

 

[nwsteve]

+1 regarding the poor ROI for psych major at 53K year, Regardless of the final school chosen, seriously consider a previous poster's suggestion to encourage your son to sample other fields especially business classes.
I spent 15 years doing executive search, and I can tell you that few of my candidates were actually working in their field of study at school. Many liberal art fields (couldn't get paid enough) but also law and even engineering seem to have the biggest diversions. If psych remains a focus, look seriously at doing it in an organization development major in a business school. Double majors in business and psychology usually the recipe. Will still require a Masters to progress but a phd is less necessary.

 

[Badger]

Consider that in most colleges and universities the first 2 years are mostly what we used to call bone head courses. These are the courses required for receiving a degree of any kind (college math/algebra, history, English, a science class, humanities, and maybe a language). The dollars spent here are not really going toward his chosen major. In Florida if you graduate from a CC (lower costs and typically smaller classes) you can transfer the credits to a state university toward your BS/BA degree. The savings can then be applied toward a graduate degree.


What are some of the typical career paths for a BS in Psychology? Advertising, Child Care, Market research, Career Counselor, Parole Officer, Psychiatric Technician, Social Work, School Psychologist, High School Psychology teacher, Rehab Specialist. Anything with a good paying income would require a minimum of a Masters degree.


His school counselor or school psychologist should also make available to him a myriad of tests for aptitude and interests for various career paths



But you have to do what makes you whole. How many here have plowed through life hating their job and couldn't wait to retire?


Cheers!

 

[cathy63]

Yes, we visited the campus about a year ago and it felt “right” to him. He could envision himself there. He didn’t get that feeling from the 4 other schools we visited on that same trip or as strongly at any of the schools that he applied to.

Last night, as we continued to discuss this, DS said UW offers a full menu of educational opportunities and in his perception, they do them all well. Cal State Monterey, being a small, new campus, has a significantly smaller menu of academic offerings. So this is telling, in that any one of the larger UCs could also provide a similar menu as UW, but alas, he did not get offers from...so here we are.

Well yes, but he was accepted at, and ruled out, San Diego State, which also has a full menu of academic offererings, so if you/he want a 4-yr school that's in state with "reasonable" tuition and size is suddenly important, he still has that option he could take another look at.

What is the situation with UCSC? If he makes a commitment to Monterey and then clears the waitlist at UCSC, can he change his mind and go there?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I would also recommend checking into the transfer policies for schools at the upper division levels, if he might want to transfer from one UC school to another later. Inter UC transfers do not get priority acceptance compared to transfers from in state community colleges-

"We give California community college students first priority over other transfer applicants, and many campuses offer guaranteed admission for well-prepared transfer students."

Transfer | UC Admissions

Besides priority acceptance, transfer agreements with the CCs are state law in California designed to help students have transfer credits accepted and graduate in no more than 2 additional years, but those benefits might not apply to a 4 year to 4 year school transfer.

 

[SecondCor521]

I would give a slightly different slant on the advice to consider STEM or business. I have a degree in both fields and they're good things...but the thing is, those things are my thing. They may not be OP's son's things.

My daughter is very intelligent also and was encouraged to do a STEM degree (Biology in her case). It took her a while to figure it out and screw up her courage to go against the grain, but she's finally settled on becoming a music teacher and she is *much* happier (she's OK with the lower pay). I'm supportive of her choice because it's a marketable degree and career and she's made the time/salary/education tradeoffs in a way that she's happy with.

Yes, pay is good in business and STEM, but if you're heart's not in it or you don't have the specific aptitude or interest in those areas, you'll be unhappy.

So the way I would phrase it is to look at his other interests and see what careers those lead to. My oldest loves writing science fiction and is excellent at linguistics, but has decided on a degree in supply chain management due to the better job prospects.

 

[Katsmeow]

From OP's descriptions, her son is really the smart kid and has the intelligence. Please encourage him to go another major and career route. STEM is a sure path to success, and it sounds like the son has the intelligence to make it. Business is also a good choice, starts out of college less pay but has good potential for growth.

Those things are sure path to success if (1) it fits your talents and (2) it fits your interests. I do believe that future income should be considered in choosing a career. But, you can't just consider those things. You have to consider interests and talents.

One thing that was very helpful for my son was that he did testing at Johnson O'Conner (there are locations across the country). They don't base their recommendations on interests. They base them on your talents. It was after that testing that he decided to switch from psychology to computer science. CS wasn't the highest suggestion from his testing but it was up there on the list. (He really was someone with STEM talent).

Yes, we visited the campus about a year ago and it felt “right” to him. He could envision himself there. He didn’t get that feeling from the 4 other schools we visited on that same trip or as strongly at any of the schools that he applied to.

Last night, as we continued to discuss this, DS said UW offers a full menu of educational opportunities and in his perception, they do them all well. Cal State Monterey, being a small, new campus, has a significantly smaller menu of academic offerings. So this is telling, in that any one of the larger UCs could also provide a similar menu as UW, but alas, he did not get offers from...so here we are.

I strongly agree with this. How can you tell someone “I know you’ve dreamed of becoming a doctor, but I think you should be an accountant instead” He has to come to that decision himself. I can only encourage him to sample classes in a variety of areas. And talk with him about finding a career that will provide adequate income and hopefully also be enjoyable.

So here's the thing. He gets to pick his major and what he does with his life because, well, it's his life. That really is up to him. You can provide information to his and answer questions. But, I firmly believe that choice of major/career is 100% his.

On the other hand, you get to pick how to spend your money. Even for a great kid who is a wonderful person -- they usually find it pretty easy to spend your money. When going to a school that is twice as expensive as another school doesn't cost you any money -- well, it is easy to really strongly want that school. From his point of view why not insist on UW? He isn't paying for it. You are. No matter how certain he is, he can easily go to UW and end up changing his major a few times and taking more than 4 years to graduate. Not because he is a bad kid but because (1) he is still a kid and (2) it isn't his money being spent.

For example, you could say that you could say you won't pay for 4 years at UW. You could say you would pay for 2 years in state and then 2 years at UW if he is able to transfer in. You could even say you would pay for 4 years in state. You could say you would pay for the equivalent of 4 years in state and if he wants to go to UW he will have to get loans to make up the difference.

It is your money being spent. He drives the bus on his choice of major and career. You drive the bus on how your money is spent.

Consider that in most colleges and universities the first 2 years are mostly what we used to call bone head courses. These are the courses required for receiving a degree of any kind (college math/algebra, history, English, a science class, humanities, and maybe a language).

This is why going to an in state school or CC for the first two years would be fine....

 

[Texas Proud]

It is your money being spent. He drives the bus on his choice of major and career. You drive the bus on how your money is spent.

Except if you are my sister... I was not willing to pay the rent etc. for my son's GF who moved in with him last summer... it has been awhile and it came to a head this month and he decided he could swing it on his own..


But my sister insisted that I was trying to 'be in control' of his life and that I should not.. I strongly disagreed with this... I do not care about his GF... I only care that it is on my dime...


BTW, not a knock on her... she is a really nice young lady and they both seem to care about each other... but he has made some really dumb financial decisions since them getting together....

 

[ocean view]

So we continue to discuss, DH & I privately and then also the whole family on what to do. DH and I agree that UW and UO are off the table because their undergrad costs exceed our savings. He has 5 other offers and 1 wait list to choose from. He asked that we give him the weekend to do more online career research, soul searching, etc. without throwing new options at him. He’s overwhelmed and stressed.

Several of you made suggestions to revisit the other schools, unfortunately we are nearly out of time. His decision is due 5/1 and he has a math final that day as well, so he needs to spend the weekend preparing for finals, not flying off to college campuses.

This whole situation is our fault for being too hands off in this process. When your smart, confident kid says “I got this”, usually he does and doesn’t need our guidance. This time we were wrong.

I’ll keep you posted if progress is made. Thanks again to all for your thoughtful responses. It really does help.

 

[Brat]

When my kids were selecting their colleges I shared with them how much we could spend. DD got jobs on campus to help with school expenses and she got loans. She changed majors after discovering that her original career goal wasn't a good fit. That has proved to be a very good decision.

Her brother, ever the entrepreneur, did 'side jobs' while in college for extra money.

Looking back, I changed majors in college from Physics to Mathematics because hanging in for a Ph.D. made no economic sense for a woman in the early 60s.

In addition to the cost of UW what concerns me is a 16 yo is adjusting to large lecture classes and living in dorms/ fraternities with older students. Socially he will have difficulty fitting in.

 

[Clone]

I think that it has been mentioned here before, but I just did some searching to see if I could gather more information.


Most Doctorates are awarded to students who received either their Bachelors or Masters at a different institute. Also, most departments recruit post-docs and faculty from other institutions. There is a belief that students will receive a more well rounded education, or broader perspective by taking grad studies at a different institute. I do not have hard numbers to back this up, but I went through the list of psychology professors at one of our state schools. Perhaps 30% of them listed where they had studied. None of them received a PhD from the same school where they did there BA. And most had post-doc work somewhere else before finding a full faculty appointment.


Just trying to indicate that the first school is seldom the only school where folks in academia (or folks with PhDs) will study. It is also interesting to look at the areas where the psych professors specialize.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Yes, pay is good in business and STEM, but if you're heart's not in it or you don't have the specific aptitude or interest in those areas, you'll be unhappy.

So the way I would phrase it is to look at his other interests and see what careers those lead to. My oldest loves writing science fiction and is excellent at linguistics, but has decided on a degree in supply chain management due to the better job prospects.

We were okay with letting our kids choose fields that made them happy as long as it also led to reasonable job prospects and financial self sufficiency. But I think in fields with limited income potential, if you are looking at ROI or payback period, that means a good value school becomes an even more important consideration.

 

[nhcycling]

Maybe too late now - when my 3 were in high school we made it very clear that we would pay for their undergraduate degree but at the level of what the instate university was at the time. If they got scholarships they could attend elsewhere or if they wanted to save or take out loans (highly discouraged) they could fund the difference. The youngest got into some pretty great prestigious schools but didn’t get enough scholarship money to make up the equivalence to instate university cost. She wasn’t too pleased at the time. She got over it. She’s now a 3rd year med school student in the Boston area.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

Maybe too late now - when my 3 were in high school we made it very clear that we would pay for their undergraduate degree but at the level of what the instate university was at the time. If they got scholarships they could attend elsewhere or if they wanted to save or take out loans (highly discouraged) they could fund the difference. The youngest got into some pretty great prestigious schools but didn’t get enough scholarship money to make up the equivalence to instate university cost. She wasn’t too pleased at the time. She got over it. She’s now a 3rd year med school student in the Boston area.

We have done something like this- We've saved enough for an in-state 4 year degree. Its in a 529, and we've told them that we'll add some to it if we can't cover an in-state degree with what we've saved. We've also said that they may use it for an out of state school if they get a scholarship and agree to pay the difference. We have not encouraged expensive prestigious universities. We've also told them that if they get scholarships and graduate with money left, they can have it- with some restrictions. If they choose not to go to school, we're keeping it.

My parents did the same for us- we all got a degree in 4 years or so- sister graduated with a little debt. I got a scholarship for undergrad and used my funds for grad school. My brother ran out in his last year, but worked and saved and graduated debt free as well.

With regards to choice of major, my parents only said our inheritance was our college education. They recommended that we pick something we could earn a living with, because after college, our standard of living would be determined by our own paychecks.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

I’m a tight finance person. No way I’d pay that much for degree that doesn’t have income potential unless you have $ to give to secure their life. Would teach them wrong perspective.

 

[fasteddie911]

My spouse went Udub for a couple years then transferred out, I went UHawaii for summer school a couple time. All as out-of-staters. I wouldn't pay out-of-state tuition for Hawaii, heck lots of local kids are wiling to leave and pay out-of-state tuition at State schools elsewhere. Udub is a much more impressive school, campus, etc. Having said that, if money is tight, I'd stick with the cheaper options, graduate then do grad school at bigger name place, or transfer during undergrad since those first few years are used for prereqs anyways and to figure out interests. Most people I know changed interests/majors those first few years, no point in wasting time/money at an expensive school.

I know at that age I knew nothing about college, money or careers, I think heavy-handed parental involvement isn't a bad thing. As a teen I remember many of us thinking college was the more important thing ever and how many people were devastated to not get into their dream college, when as adults it really doesn't even matter anymore.

How academically strong is your child? I only ask because the colleges you listed aren't particularly competitive, imo. Most folks I went to school with would choose someplace like UW as a safety school. I think we probably come from very different perspectives.

 

[ocean view]

How academically strong is your child? I only ask because the colleges you listed aren't particularly competitive, imo. Most folks I went to school with would choose someplace like UW as a safety school. I think we probably come from very different perspectives.

My son has a 4.2 GPA, 32 ACT (and, if I may brag, was reading before age 2 and has a photographic memory). Until this year’s AP Calculus AB class, he hasn’t ever struggled at anything. He’s had to work, but not struggled. He will finish HS with at least 6, but fingers crossed 7 AP class credits. I consider that academically strong.

 

[MarieIG]

If it were me, kiddo would go to a local community college for the first two years, in state for the next two, and the majority of the 529 would be saved for grad school.

I would not break the bank or incur loans for a psych degree.

 

[Sunset]

The new issue of Money magazine has a debt article, in it a lady got her psych degree, and cannot find any job, but at least she got student debt !!

There is a huge difference between supporting a child who wants to go to Med school to be a doctor, vs one who wants to get a psych/philosophy/English/History degree.

I wish so hard someone like my parents would have strongly forbade me from getting a psych degree, I could have had a "real" job. Instead I got a low paying job, and eventually realized I needed to go back to University and get a degree in a field that paid well.

 

[jerryo]

Decisions about where our kids should go to go college and what we (as parents) should pay for are always tough! And you never know whether you’ve made the right one, until it’s too late!

As a (former) college professor and father of two successful adult sons, I very much agree that where you go to graduate school (if you go) is much more important career wise than where you go to college. And, if you’re at the top of your class at a good state University (any of the UC universities and some of the CSUs), you’ll do fine. But if you’re in the middle of your class at Podunk State, you’ll have very different opportunities than if you’re in the middle of your class at Harvard or Columbia or Berkeley.

And, where you go to college can make a BIG difference in how you grow up, what you learn, and what you aspire to be. It seems that the most popular major these days in most State Colleges is business and within business it’s ”tourism and hospitality.” So it seems to me like lots of kids (my niece among them) are getting their degrees in order to land at least initial jobs as concierges and desk clerks.

Our deal with our kids was that we would pay for their first four years of college (including money saved in 529’s and money they earned from working summers) and they would pay for graduate school. Both had outstanding records and both got in and opted to go to small, prestigious (and expensive) liberal arts colleges.

The older son got his BA in Psychology and then (after a year off teaching high school) went to a top 5 law school. He had a little savings, a small scholarship, and great summer jobs, but still took out nearly $100k in loans. He paid off these loans within five years and now (about 10 years out) has a dream job as the lead for privacy policy at a major tech firm. He also already makes nearly double my peak salary!

The younger son got his undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering and then went on to a top 5 graduate school in aerospace engineering with a full fellowship. He’s now a mid level engineer/manager at a technology consulting firm making about the same as my best salary. And along the way, his firm paid most of the costs of his completing his MBA at a top 10 Business School.

So....it’s easy to over plan AND the financing may take care of itself. I’d send my kid to the best college he can get into and that you can comfortably afford. Whether he turns on and drops out, majors in something entirely useless and ends up a barista (or like a friend’s son who majored in psychology one of the first 10 employees at Uber), or successful pursues a conventional or unconventional career, is entirely up to him!

 

[lhamo]

The UW is a great school (I got my BA/MA/Phd there), but I would not recommend it for a young out-of-state student. My DS is a junior who was admitted through the early entrance program at age 15, and who got into the coveted CS major on his first application. It has been a good experience for him, but he does have regrets. The campus is hard to navigate socially -- he does have good friends from his EEP cohort and the center that manages it, but has found it hard to integrate in other ways. Living at home is part of that, too, but he really prefers the social atmosphere at UBC, where he has friends he met through an online gaming team.

When I was an undergrad 30 years ago I also didn't form many social ties -- I had just come out of an intense boarding school environment and enjoyed the relative privacy/anonymity. Grad school was where i made my closest friendships.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

My son has a 4.2 GPA, 32 ACT (and, if I may brag, was reading before age 2 and has a photographic memory). Until this year’s AP Calculus AB class, he hasn’t ever struggled at anything. He’s had to work, but not struggled. He will finish HS with at least 6, but fingers crossed 7 AP class credits. I consider that academically strong.

Very impressive! You must be proud. [emoji3]

 

[Winemaker]

I made my 2 kids make up a living budget as if they graduated from college in 4 years to come up with a desired income, based on their desired lifestyle. Somewhat surprising for the both of them, after I then had them reverse engineer for a career based on their desired lifestyle salary. Opened some eyes, that's for sure. No, it wasn't a champagne and caviar budget but they realized that making real good money waiting tables or English Lit. at 18, wasn't real good money at 35, 45 or 50.

 

[bigreader]

Speaking as a parent with some experience in this area, academic success in high school doesn't always translate into college success. How will he deal with being anonymous in huge lecture class at a large university? What happens when he is no longer the smartest student in the classroom? Are his social skills and personal development at the point where he can manage living with older students most of whom are away from home for the first time?

I was worried about my kid but concluded that parental micromanagement just puts off the inevitable. Maybe this situation is different because your son is so young and you feel a need to step in. But this is all a bit late in the game if you have not set these boundaries before he applied to these colleges.

If you have real budget limitations, tell him (and you should have told him well before now). Short of that, I'd say that it is his decision on where to go and what to major in. He done well in school, has applied to colleges with your full knowledge and approval and now has selected a school. He has kept up his part of the bargain and should get to choose.
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