College tuition: How much is too much?

[Bamaman]

I suggest that your son look into doing some volunteering at some mental health facilities. So many people in psychology are working with behaviorally challenged individuals, working with social services (DHR) and in counseling. There are also AlAnon and other 12 step programs that work with those addicted to alcohol and drugs.

My wife and I have dealt with psychologists trying to learn how to deal with our daughter. Those we met with were Masters' level counselors. Working with troubled families brings a lot of responsibilities, and it would be so depressing to deal with what they work with day on end.

 

[karen1972]

Unless the school can offer something the others can't, it may be in the too much category, especially given he will have to go on get a masters. If they had inside scoop on getting into a better masters program, clinical studies, hands on, etc.. that may give him substantial legs up, then I could see paying the additional money.. else I'd have to say I'd be looking hard at his second choice.

I picked my public cheap college because they had connections and had a track record of almost a guaranteed co-op with one of several tech companies. 2 co-ops nearly paid for my college and led to 5 job offers out of college with very little effort on my part and an extremely successful career. Just illustrating money often has no factor on quality. Now when I looked at a masters for business, then I looked for a "name". as then it seemed to matter and of course my company was paying for it.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Linguistics might be a viable career path. With the increasing globalization of business, people who can speak and translate multiple languages can be in demand.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

. After this reality check, I decided to go back to school for Computer Science (I ended up quitting though because the study got me in the door in the IT field and they trained me... I don't think stuff like that happens anymore though. Everyone in the computer field nowadays has a CS degree.

While this is mostly true, it is becoming less true. Many students find good employment with a two year degree in certain areas, e.g. CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate). The average CCNA salary is about $75K.

Another example: It is possible to get a Amazon AWS Solutions Architect certification without a college degree. According to GlassDoor, the average salary for those with this certification is $139.9K.

Look, I'm on the college side of this, teaching students Computer Science. But even there I tell them that they need to show prospective employers that they know how to do real things - and the best way is to show them real things that they have done. If you want to do web design, then show sites that you have created. If you want to show server side programming skills, then have real live examples of server side programming that you've done. If you want to do game programming, then you better be prepared to show real games that you've developed. Yes, the theory is important as is the degree - but with so much grade inflation, getting answers from the Internet and other factors - it is not enough.

 

[ocean view]

As an additional comment - if you do decide to do a local school for two years then have him transfer to UW (I think it's a good plan, BTW, but not my kid, so...): be aware that for transfer students with two years of college credits, UW will probably not care at all about any of his high school accomplishments and will mostly or only care about his college transcript. Ask UW of course, but I bet that's pretty close to what they'll say.

I did call UW admissions this morning and asked this very question. I was hoping that a prior freshman offer would somehow provide an edge for a transfer student. No dice. They will only look at college transcripts. She did note that as a WA public university they are required to accept WA CC transfers first, and those account for 85% of their transfers each year...

 

[ivinsfan]

I did call UW admissions this morning and asked this very question. I was hoping that a prior freshman offer would somehow provide an edge for a transfer student. No dice. They will only look at college transcripts. She did note that as a WA public university they are required to accept WA CC transfers first, and those account for 85% of their transfers each year...

of course there is a chance he won't be able to transfer to UW. There is also a good chance he will have his sites set on another school or another major. He might feel so comfortable at the Cali school he stays there until grad school. Lots of things can happen.

 

[SecondCor521]

Does UW allow him to defer admission a year?

Why doesn't he like Oregon? Seems like those two schools are pretty comparable to me.

 

[ocean view]

I think the transfer plan is a good one and gives him a lot of options.



Since several people brought up the 16 thing I want to address that. My son is in his mid-20s now, but from the time he was 6 I was a member of a number of mailing lists related to gifted kids. In many cases, I feel like those kids grew up with me in that when I started they were in elementary school and now they are graduated. Of course, I was hearing about them through the lens of their parents.



Gifted kids who finish high school early vary a lot. From interacting with my own son who graduated high school at 15 and interacting with parents of other kids who graduated early, my perception is that the kids fall within 3 groups:



1. Very intellectually advanced kids who are also more mature than their age peers in all areas. Many of these kids do really well in college, even living at a dorm at a young age. They are academically inclined and are able to focus and do well in college and don't get in a lot of trouble. These are the kids who didn't struggle in high school with deadlines and are self starters and are organized and don't feel a lot of peer pressure.



If you have a child who fits this mold, great. The biggest problem I have seen is that sometimes parents thing a child fits this mold when they really belong in group 2 or 3.



Having said this -- these kids often change their major. 18 and 19 year olds change their majors and 16 and 17 year olds will do it just as much or more.



2. This group is just as intellectually advanced as the kids in group 1, but they are not exceptionally mature in other ways. These kids can struggle with things like time management, being self-starters, etc. If they are struggling with any of this in high school, they will not be cured by going to college. These are kids who may do fine in college at a young age, but may not be ready to go live in a dorm. These are also kids who can do well in a controlled environment with mom and dad, but can struggle with peer pressure and may act more recklessly when on their own. FWIW, I think this is a really large group of kids. These are the kids who may do better going to CC or a local university and living at home for a year or two before going to a dorm.



3. This group is just as intellectually advanced as the kids in group 1 and 2, but these kids are what is called twice exceptional. That is they have some challenge such as ADHD, or Asperger's or a learning disability. They are super bright but have some area of challenge. The most common of these is probably ADHD. These are kids who if they go straight to college and living in a dorm may have real difficulty. I can't tell you the times that I have heard a parent want to send their child to college and the child can't meet their deadlines in high school without help from parents. Well, they go to college and don't meet their deadlines because they don't have their mom as their frontal lobe any more.



My son had ADHD and fit in this group. I was not willing to send him to live at school until he had spent a semester in our home managing all of his deadlines on his own. Once he proved he had matured enough to do it then, I sent him to live at school (he was 20).



FWIW -- the comments in group 3 even apply to kids once they get to be 18. They don't magically get able to meet their deadlines and responsibilities just by turning a certain age.



So -- whether it is a good idea for a 16 year old to go away to school really depends on that 16 year old and where he or she is in these groups. For some, they are ready and do well. Others aren't ready and may do better with other choices.

As a family, we have been involved with an organization based in Reno that supports profoundly gifted kids since DS was 6. It has been invaluable to us parents for support, and like this forum, for knowledge sharing among families as we navigated this path. However, guidance around sending young kids to college is not an area where they’ve been much help.

My DS is mostly a cat 1, slight tendencies to cat 2 for occasional time management issues. Nothing major though. He is not twice exceptional.

When we started visiting colleges I was worried about the life part of living away from home (academics he’s fine). But after visiting a few schools I realized that he would be fine in a dorm setting, where really you just have to be able to get out of bed on time, do laundry (he can!) and purchase sundries on occasion. He is not ready for an apartment. The dorms at Monterey are old officers quarters with in-suite bathrooms. I’m not so sure he would be good at keeping the bathroom clean, but maybe his roommates would be more fastidious.

He’s always been a self-starter, never needed help with homework. He’s a rule follower, and self-regulates well. For example he bought a Nintendo switch recently and he didn’t play it for several days because he had school work to finish first. This was his self imposed restriction.

I suggested the 2-years at Monterey plan earlier this afternoon and he pushed back. I’m going to let him think about it awhile and then we’ll revisit it again.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Can he get the same degree at the less expensive schools? And what is the salary range for the field he wants to pursue?

 

[Katsmeow]

As a family, we have been involved with an organization based in Reno that supports profoundly gifted kids since DS was 6. It has been invaluable to us parents for support, and like this forum, for knowledge sharing among families as we navigated this path. However, guidance around sending young kids to college is not an area where they’ve been much help.

My DS is mostly a cat 1, slight tendencies to cat 2 for occasional time management issues. Nothing major though. He is not twice exceptional.

When we started visiting colleges I was worried about the life part of living away from home (academics he’s fine). But after visiting a few schools I realized that he would be fine in a dorm setting, where really you just have to be able to get out of bed on time, do laundry (he can!) and purchase sundries on occasion. He is not ready for an apartment. The dorms at Monterey are old officers quarters with in-suite bathrooms. I’m not so sure he would be good at keeping the bathroom clean, but maybe his roommates would be more fastidious.

He’s always been a self-starter, never needed help with homework. He’s a rule follower, and self-regulates well. For example he bought a Nintendo switch recently and he didn’t play it for several days because he had school work to finish first. This was his self imposed restriction.

I suggested the 2-years at Monterey plan earlier this afternoon and he pushed back. I’m going to let him think about it awhile and then we’ll revisit it again.

From what you say, he may well fit within the group that does fine in a dorm even at a young age. I know people who have sent kids to dorms at even younger age and for some kids it works out fine.

But that doesn't change all the other issues about college and cost that have been talked about in this thread so I think the Monterey plan is an excellent one.

 

[ivinsfan]

As a family, we have been involved with an organization based in Reno that supports profoundly gifted kids since DS was 6. It has been invaluable to us parents for support, and like this forum, for knowledge sharing among families as we navigated this path. However, guidance around sending young kids to college is not an area where they’ve been much help.

My DS is mostly a cat 1, slight tendencies to cat 2 for occasional time management issues. Nothing major though. He is not twice exceptional.

When we started visiting colleges I was worried about the life part of living away from home (academics he’s fine). But after visiting a few schools I realized that he would be fine in a dorm setting, where really you just have to be able to get out of bed on time, do laundry (he can!) and purchase sundries on occasion. He is not ready for an apartment. The dorms at Monterey are old officers quarters with in-suite bathrooms. I’m not so sure he would be good at keeping the bathroom clean, but maybe his roommates would be more fastidious.

He’s always been a self-starter, never needed help with homework. He’s a rule follower, and self-regulates well. For example he bought a Nintendo switch recently and he didn’t play it for several days because he had school work to finish first. This was his self imposed restriction.

I suggested the 2-years at Monterey plan earlier this afternoon and he pushed back. I’m going to let him think about it awhile and then we’ll revisit it again.

It wasn't his first choice and maybe it will take some getting used to. I'm sure you guys will push through and find a good solution.

 

[tulak]

I’m curious: what is so appealing about the UW?

UW is like any big public university. If there’s a specific reason to go there, such as CompSci, then yeah, it makes sense. But for a psych degree? I just don’t see the benefit.

You mention the transfer route into the UW. There used to be guaranteed admission to the UW if you had a degree from a local community college (they had to take you). That’s how I got in. They changed this a decade ago because they were over enrolled. CC transfers are still a priority, but they can deny you. I suspect that if you have a clear path to a degree, then you’d probably be accepted.

 

[Brat]

Honest, UW is not all that special and freshman classes are typically large lecture type. I wouldn't send my 16 yo there.

Has he done a campus visit?

 

[tulak]

Honest, UW is not all that special and freshman classes are typically large lecture type. I wouldn't send my 16 yo there.

Has he done a campus visit?

+1.

That’s why I asked.

 

[SecondCor521]

Another thought or two, because apparently I have some about this topic.

I'm not saying you haven't done these things. But most people don't, so I'm putting the thoughts here for others who may read this thread later. And you, if they apply to you.

Most families don't put enough effort into choosing a college and choosing a career, IMHO. Which is strange, because college lasts several years and careers (often) last even longer. And yet there are things you can do to improve the chances of good fits in both categories:

1. I like the idea of starting with figuring out an initial career first and then looking for schools second. It clarifies the latter decision and cuts away a lot of clutter.

2. Career choice can be explored through interest inventories, personality surveys, the occupational outlook handbook (google it - best career resource out there in my opinion - something like ooh.gov), talking with people in the career, informational interviews, job shadows, summer jobs, internships.

3. Checking educational requirements and salary requirements against a student's options and expectations are good - my daughter, for example, thinks about a couple of career options but they require doctoral degrees. She asked how long those take and how much they cost. While the cost isn't an issue in her case (hers would get paid for by someone else), the five years of her life is something she doesn't want to put in now. Totally reasonable decision. The good thing is that she knows now instead of getting halfway there and realizing it's not a feasible path for her.

4. On salary requirements, I've even suggested to my kids that they make a realistic budget (I helped them a lot by going over categories and how to figure each one out in a reasonable way), so they know what kind of lifestyle level they want. They can then compare that to starting salaries (ooh.gov and salary survey sites) and see if they're OK or not.

5. On college, obviously check to see if they have the majors that apply to the career. That's another way to check fit - if a kid wants to be a mechanical engineer, look at the mechanical engineering degree plan. Does the kid seem happy about those classes? You want to hear words like "interesting" and "exciting" and "fun" - and also, "Yeah, I could do that." This process can run in reverse too to generate ideas - one idea I suggested to my kids is to go through a university course catalog for a school with a lot of majors, and pick out majors and programs that sounded interesting. We could then look at what kinds of jobs those majors tended to end up doing.

6. Back on the career thing, there are usually career centers at universities who can help with career choice.

7. Back on the college thing, campus visits - multiple ones if needed - are best for feeling for "fit", which can be a nebulous thing to determine but sometimes is just there. Do as much as you can: multiple visits, staying in the dorm, eating in the cafeteria, visiting classes, talking with professors, talking with the honors program people.

8. Talking with students from his school who have gone there, plus all of the web's resources on colleges will tell you anything factual you want to know. Look at the degree plans. Financial aid. Job placement stuff.

9. Talk to the school. There are entire departments of folks who want to answer your questions. And if they're not helpful, that might tell you something.

10. Introspection - do they want to live far away or close to home, big school or small, prestigious or less so, costs, etc.

The exploration of these two areas may seem like a lot of effort and time up front, but spending time and money on a poor fit in either is worse.

Probably too much of a rant. Maybe something of use there for someone.

 

[sengsational]

There was an ROI kind of study that I only remember the supposed take-away, which was that if you were in the lower socio-economic strata, your future earning potential is improved by going to a high-class school. The explanation was that you hang with people like yourself, in general, so if you go to a middling school, there will be a few low strata people you'll hang with, and not better your position. But if you go to the high class school, you're forced up, making contacts, adding to confidence and all that mushy stuff that turns into a successful bunch of earnings.


But for the OP, higher up in the first place, spending the extra money probably won't translate to more earnings.

 

[eytonxav]

It can be very difficult to discourage your child from pursuing a degree that appeals to them, but having sent my DD to a private U for psychology, I would think carefully about paying big $s for that career choice or not looking at alternative career choices that can provide a better life post university.

 

[Fishingmn]

All of your planning sometimes doesn't play out like you think.

2nd child, DS, was always a little lax in his focus on education. We like to say in elementary his favorite 2 subjects were recess and lunch.

He dropped out from 1st college after a semester. Had too much fun. Poor grades meant his baseball scholarship was lost. Went to CC and still had no focus. Dropped out of school for a semester. Suddenly light bulb went off that working $10/hour job wouldn't cut it. Went to a new CC and got lucky to be accepted into a large university. Graduated in 5 years with business degree.

And now 5+ years later he's about to get married, owns a home and is making 6 figures in sales at a software company.

Sometimes they just need to figure it out on their own. The path is not straight. There was no need to spend money on a fancy school. It will all work out with the guidance and support you lend along the way.

 

[38Chevy454]

It can be very difficult to discourage your child from pursuing a degree that appeals to them, but having sent my DD to a private U for psychology, I would think carefully about paying big $s for that career choice or not looking at alternative career choices that can provide a better life post university.

I've been refraining from making comments on this thread, because my thoughts are exactly as above. Psychology degree is a tough way to make a living once graduated. To even come close to a good wage, you need a PhD. BS Psychology makes you qualified for jobs that are also qualified with a HS diploma. Sorry that is harsh reality.


From OP's descriptions, her son is really the smart kid and has the intelligence. Please encourage him to go another major and career route. STEM is a sure path to success, and it sounds like the son has the intelligence to make it. Business is also a good choice, starts out of college less pay but has good potential for growth. Think hard about the job prospects and what kind of quality of life your son wants to have once out of college. Although I may have been unusual in my knowing what I wanted to become, I knew I wanted to be an engineer from in my early teens. It also motivated me to work my way through college, knowing the prize at the end of getting a good job as an engineer. Even with working 25 hours/week during school and full time summers and breaks, college was some great times and memories.



For OP's question, certainly for a Psychology degree it is not worth spending any more than a lowest in-state tuition level. I think letting him go away for college is OK if he is emotionally ready. Although given my comments above, much higher return potential on the college costs expenditure if you go with STEM or business.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

OP - Perhaps too late to be useful, but here's how we handled it when my daughter settled on getting a PharmD, a six year direct entry graduate program, when we had planned on paying for a four year undergrad.

We basically invested tons of time in helping her make an informed decision.

1) Helped her figure out what PharmD grads can realistically expect to make

2) Gave her a very explicit, specific $$ amount we would fund

3) Built a straight forward model to give her insight into her obligations. Essentially:

Estimated Full Rate Costs for 6 years (including 3.5% annual inflation)
- What we would pay
- Academic Scholarships
- What she pays along the way
= her debt

We then translated that debt into a monthly obligation at a certain interest rate.

4) We built a simple "life after college" budget model using a mid-range of expected salary and plugged in the debt service. This gave her a sense of her savings and lifestyle capacity after college debt service.

5) For each school she was admitted to, we ran a version of the above. This let her put, side-by-side, an economic forecast including the benefits of her own hard work and normalizing out the silliness of "high tuitions but then everyone get a high scholarship".

We created the structure...by the end she was making the trade-offs. She ultimately made a very good decision balancing cost with aspiration.

Hope that's useful.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I have read some (but not all) responses here and wanted to add a quick thought on student loans. Some of the folks here may recall that after I retired, I went to law school. Well, thanks to my time in the Air Force, it cost me nothing...as a matter of fact, they paid me to go to school. "Uncle Sugar" paid for 3 associate degrees, a bachelor's degree, a master's degree and finally the JD. All at zero out of pocket cost for me. So, I do not know of these student debts. BUT...

I have a few friends from law school that are now in the "repayment" period of their $100K+ loans and EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE SHOCKED at how much they are. Of course, during school...they couldn't wait to get the "refund" every semester (they were actually the living stipend, not sure why they all called this loan a "refund") and spent it willy nilly. A handful got good jobs where the starting pay is well into the six figures, but for most...they are stuck with a loan (that usually CANNOT be discharged through bankruptcy) with onerous terms. So, if you are giving any consideration to student loans, I would highly suggest looking at what repayment would look like. Here is a good place to start: FinAid | Calculators | Loan Calculator

 

[ocean view]

Honest, UW is not all that special and freshman classes are typically large lecture type. I wouldn't send my 16 yo there.

Has he done a campus visit?

Yes, we visited the campus about a year ago and it felt “right” to him. He could envision himself there. He didn’t get that feeling from the 4 other schools we visited on that same trip or as strongly at any of the schools that he applied to.

Last night, as we continued to discuss this, DS said UW offers a full menu of educational opportunities and in his perception, they do them all well. Cal State Monterey, being a small, new campus, has a significantly smaller menu of academic offerings. So this is telling, in that any one of the larger UCs could also provide a similar menu as UW, but alas, he did not get offers from...so here we are.

 

[ocean view]

It can be very difficult to discourage your child from pursuing a degree that appeals to them

I strongly agree with this. How can you tell someone “I know you’ve dreamed of becoming a doctor, but I think you should be an accountant instead” He has to come to that decision himself. I can only encourage him to sample classes in a variety of areas. And talk with him about finding a career that will provide adequate income and hopefully also be enjoyable.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We used to just show our kids the Payscale reports by college and major. Because we had most of our assets in retirement and small business accounts which aren't included in the FAFSA calculations, they were able to go to in state schools tuition free. We just had to help with books and room and board. So when the $50K schools came up, private or out of state, we'd just say show us the ROI and we will consider it. But most of the schools they would bring up had lower starting salaries than in state schools they could go to for free, so that usually shut down most of those arguments. And the weather is even nicer here and many of the public schools are near the ocean in very desirable locations, more so than the schools they brought up.

 

[euro]

If the kid needs a Master's or PhD to have a viable career in that field, strongly suggest he do the undergrad work in-state and spend that kind of money on the graduate work.

Personally, there is no way I'd spend 250K on a degree that left one of my kids unemployable in their field without further education.

This! It's generally better to graduate work at a different University anyway. I'd make cost a VERY big part of the undergrad decision, so in-state is basically a "must" in my opinion (especially because you have so many great options in CA). Don't get me wrong, I'm a UW alumnus and I LOVE the University as well as the City, but to me, this would not make sense.