Curious about a generator

[Badger]

I know absolutely nothing about a generator for the house but thought it may be time to look into them. I would like to have one that automatically turns on to keep the air conditioner, refrigerator, other appliances and lights functional. The breaker panel says it is a 200 amp service.
Can anyone help me with suggestions on brand, prices, and cost to have installed?
What else do I need to know? Maintenance, type of fuel to run, etc?


Cheers!

Thank you for all the replies. Some additional info. We are in our 70s dealing with a few health issues that restrict some of what we can do. Would like a permanent unit because portable units would not be something we could deal with. Home is about 1700 sq ft. Like most living here we have a central heat pump to run air conditioning for the summer and heat in winter. We are totally electric. No natural gas, propane, etc. fuel lines to tap into. Not sure what the best alternatives are. Need something to run the home during outages like hurricanes, nor'easters, brown outs, heavy rain storms etc. We don't have sump pump, well, pool, sauna, or concerned about the hot tub. We could get along without the washer, dryer, dishwasher, water heater if necessary. We live in Florida and need air conditioning in the summer. Most important things to run are air conditioner, refrigerator, lights, stove, and outlets (for computer, tv, phone charging, fans).

Other than contacting Generac for estimates what are some of the other reliable generator companies recommended? How do I keep from becoming a P.T. Barnum sucker?


Cheers!

 

[Souschef]

You need two components, one is the generator, and the other is called the transfer panel. This panel switches from utility power to your generator.
You will need a generator that generates 240 volts to run your A/C, etc.
Small generators like mine are only 120 volts, so I am screwed about my A/C. Fortunately, we live in Central Coast Calif, and do not get the humidity that Florida gets.
Since you have an all electric home, you will need a big generator. Generac will come out and give you an estimate, to give you a starting point.
Based on your pane, I am guessing you will need a 40 KW generator. A quick look at a 48 KW unit is $17K PLUS a pad, transfer switch, and all the electrical hookup.
I think most of the big ones are run by diesel, but I am not sure.

 

[MRG]

Thank you for all the replies. Some additional info. We are in our 70s dealing with a few health issues that restrict some of what we can do. Would like a permanent unit because portable units would not be something we could deal with. Home is about 1700 sq ft. Like most living here we have a central heat pump to run air conditioning for the summer and heat in winter. We are totally electric. No natural gas, propane, etc. fuel lines to tap into. Not sure what the best alternatives are. Need something to run the home during outages like hurricanes, nor'easters, brown outs, heavy rain storms etc. We don't have sump pump, well, pool, sauna, or concerned about the hot tub. We could get along without the washer, dryer, dishwasher, water heater if necessary. We live in Florida and need air conditioning in the summer. Most important things to run are air conditioner, refrigerator, lights, stove, and outlets (for computer, tv, phone charging, fans).

Other than contacting Generac for estimates what are some of the other reliable generator companies recommended? How do I keep from becoming a P.T. Barnum sucker?


Cheers!

Can you do solar? Ever looked at a powerwall? It's a 13.5 KW battery you can feed with solar. It's not going to run your AC full bore but given your lack of fuel options It's something.

 

[travelover]

Given that you have no natural gas, it seems like propane would be the best fuel option. It would require buying or renting a small propane "pig" tank. Get several bids - local electrical companies install generators and subcontract the slab and plumbing work.


EXAMPLE

 

[rk911]

I know absolutely nothing about a generator for the house but thought it may be time to look into them. I would like to have one that automatically turns on to keep the air conditioner, refrigerator, other appliances and lights functional. The breaker panel says it is a 200 amp service.
Can anyone help me with suggestions on brand, prices, and cost to have installed?
What else do I need to know? Maintenance, type of fuel to run, etc?


Cheers!

Kohler and Generac are the two 500-lb gorillas in this space. i'm sure there are other players.

we've had a Kohler kVA whole house natural gas genny with an automatic txfr switch for 10-yrs now. our home is a 3BR split level roughly 1600sf. we also have 200-amp service and the genny handles the load quite well. ours ran ~ $3200.

some things to keep in mind (based on our 10-yr old Kohler. newer models may be different but use this information as a guide for questions):

- because we power our genny with nat. gas the actual KVA rating is 12 (100-amps, 50-amps per leg). the 14kVA rating assumes LP fuel (116-amps, 58-amps per leg).

- we conduct a 20-min automatic loaded exercise each week. a loaded exercise is one where the load is transfered from the utility to the genny. in summer the load includes the AC.

- the longest continual use for us was during a 60+ hour power failure in November 2018. oil level checks are recommended every 8-hrs during those type of extended runs. during what became the final check i had to add most of a quart of oil. beyond that i check oil once a month. be sure to know and understand the PM schedule.

- now our ATS is built in to our main electrical panel. before we upgraded to 200-amp service and a new main panel we had 100-amp service split between a main and sub panels with a separate ATS. I like having the integrated ATS in the 200-amp panel...freed up space in a closet.

- Kohler has an app for iOS and Android from which you can "control" and monitor the genny. on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being superb i'd rate the iOS version a 4...at best. it needs work.

- noise is not bad. with the windows closed we can hear it but not to the extent that we must speak louder or turn up the TV volume. outside it's a bit louder than a lawn mower.

good luck with your search.

 

[mountainsoft]

I considered getting a generator for essential loads in our house, but couldn't justify the expense. Even a small portable unit was around $1000, and wired units were much more. Not to mention the hassles of storing the generator, fuel, and maintenance. If we had power outages lasting days I might reconsider, but most of our outages only last a few hours once or twice a year.

We have a woodstove for heat, battery powered radios/tablets/laptops for entertainment, and a portable battery bank power supply I can use for a table lamp or other small appliance (charging phones, etc.).

The two biggest issues are our well water and the refrigerator/freezer. I keep jugs of water on hand in case we need to flush toilets or something during an outage. I also keep frozen bottles of ice in the refrigerator so it can stay cold for many hours if the power goes out.

Worst case, even if all the food in fridge goes bad during a power outage, buying all new food is still cheaper than a generator.

I suppose it depends on your lifestyle and how long your outages are, but we kind of have fun with power outages. We build a fire, light some candles, turn on some music, and cuddle under a blanket. It's nice to find entertainment that doesn't need a computer, and we usually treat it as a romantic evening. Since most outages tend to happen at night, we just head to bed early and don't even notice the power is out.

 

[Sunset]

Thank you for all the replies. Some additional info. We are in our 70s dealing with a few health issues that restrict some of what we can do. Would like a permanent unit because portable units would not be something we could deal with. Home is about 1700 sq ft. Like most living here we have a central heat pump to run air conditioning for the summer and heat in winter. We are totally electric. No natural gas, propane, etc. fuel lines to tap into. Not sure what the best alternatives are. Need something to run the home during outages like hurricanes, nor'easters, brown outs, heavy rain storms etc. We don't have sump pump, well, pool, sauna, or concerned about the hot tub. We could get along without the washer, dryer, dishwasher, water heater if necessary. We live in Florida and need air conditioning in the summer. Most important things to run are air conditioner, refrigerator, lights, stove, and outlets (for computer, tv, phone charging, fans).

Other than contacting Generac for estimates what are some of the other reliable generator companies recommended? How do I keep from becoming a P.T. Barnum sucker?


Cheers!

How often does this type of thing happen, and for a hurricane wouldn't you evacuate ?

It might be a lot cheaper to plan to go to a hotel if the power goes out, and is expected to be out for a day or two.

 

[Bamaman]

In our region, the biggest threat of not having electricity comes from ice getting on power lines and/or on trees that fall down on the power lines. Otherwise, our power is reliable in other seasons. A whole house generator circuit would be nice, but there are other places the $ can be spent better.

A compromise would be to purchase a 3500 watt inverter generator to power just the necessities. As long as I could run a microwave intermittantly, space heater and a small refrigerator I would be okay. The inverter generators only run as fast as needed to supply the power needed.

 

[mountainsoft]

How often does this type of thing happen, and for a hurricane wouldn't you evacuate ?

It might be a lot cheaper to plan to go to a hotel if the power goes out, and is expected to be out for a day or two.

Yep, a hotel would be our choice if the power was out more than 24 hours. Thankfully, we only lose power once or twice a year at most. The longest outage we have had was about 12 hours and that was more than 15 years ago. We did have a 9 hour outage last winter when a tree fell on the power lines and pulled over two power poles. Both events are extremely rare.

Like the original poster, we're all electric here. However, there are many systems that are made for camping that work great during power outages. We have a small butane stove that is easy to use for cooking, something like this one: https://www.amazon.com/GS-3000-Portable-Stove-Carrying-Approved/dp/B00BS4RP7S

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Do folks here have their generator in the Garage? Yes, I know this is not recommended and I do NOT condone the action. I usually take mine outside if I am going to use it for an extended period of time.

However, for testing etc., I do leave it in the garage. Now DON'T panic. I have designed an exhaust extraction system that is sealed and passes to the outside behind the generator, I use a flexible car exhaust pipe, custom mounted to the Generator's OEM exhaust. I installed 3 Carbon Monoxide Detectors in close proximity to the Generator and one inside the house at the garage door in the mud room.

I have run it for 20 minutes and used a professional Carbon Monoxide Probe and there are no leaks.

AGAIN NOT Recommending this for any long term use and I do not. But I was curious if anyone has done a similar thing.

 

[Ronstar]

My generator is outside 24/7/365. Generators have exhaust, so probably not good for in a garage. Also for folks in northern climes- don’t allow snow to pile up against the generator because it will block the exhaust.

 

[OldShooter]

In our region, the biggest threat of not having electricity comes from ice getting on power lines and/or on trees that fall down on the power lines. Otherwise, our power is reliable in other seasons. A whole house generator circuit would be nice, but there are other places the $ can be spent better.

A compromise would be to purchase a 3500 watt inverter generator to power just the necessities. As long as I could run a microwave intermittantly, space heater and a small refrigerator I would be okay. The inverter generators only run as fast as needed to supply the power needed.

Our situation is similar. Loss of AC (in the city home) might be unpleasant in the summer but loss of heat in either the city or the lake home would be catastrophic in winter.

For the city home I added a manual transfer panel and ran the generator input to a cable in the attache garage. I moved the furnace, the kitchen microwave and fridge, plus a few lighting circuits to the transfer panel. When we lose electricity I wheel our portable 5KW generator out the side door and plug the cable in.

At the lake place, I lucked into a post-Y2K deal on a 13.5kw Kohler LP power genset. So that is hard wired into a manual transfer panel that again picks up all the critical circuits including furnace, well, kitchen appliances, lighting circuits etc. The genset is overkill but I bought it brand new for maybe 20% of its original list price, so I was not prone to quibble over the size. It is bolted to the attached garage floor and exhausts through the wall.

Automatic gensets would be nice but the money was more than I wanted to spend.

 

[harley]

I'm not currently at the house, so I can't give details, but we have a large whole house Generac. But it's a large house, so it's actually only abut 3/4 of the whole house. It's about 4'x6', and we have it on a cement pad inside an area fenced with 6' vinyl privacy fence. It exercises once a week for 12 minutes. It runs on propane, which we only use for the generator and the stove. We get a refill once a year. Pretty cheap insurance. And regarding the comment about the noise, it's almost the exact same engine as our old VW beetle diesel, so yes, you can hear it, but it's no more annoying than someone idling in their car for 12 minutes. And if it's a power outage, I don't care if everyone can hear it. They're just jealous because we're sitting in the AC watching TV and eating ice cream while they're afraid to open their refrigerator doors.

Because we have the generator we feel really comfortable leaving the house for 6 months or more at a time. We've had it for 13 years, since we built the house. We've had some significant power outages over that time, and it's been well worth the cost in both effect and assurance. We've had a couple of repairs needed, computer boards that had to be replaced. We're on the coast in MD, which is a rough place for outdoor electronics, so while it's annoying it's no unexpected.

One of my biggest issues was making sure it's exercising each week when we're down in FL. There isn't a monitoring system available, although I think they have them now on the newer ones. I solved it by building a little wooden frame that I fixed on top, with plastic tape (like police tape but thicker) hanging down from it. I have a camera in my kitchen window, and I can check it at exercise time. If I see the tape get sucked up against the intake vents I know it's running. If it doesn't (hasn't happened yet, knock on wood) I would just call the generator maintenance company and they could go check it out. Peace of mind for less than 5 bucks.

All in all, I think it's a great idea, assuming you can afford it. In our case, it's been more important in the summer than the winter. I can sit in a cold house dressed warmly, but three days sweltering in the heat and humidity is not on my list of fun ways to live.

 

[Scubamax]

During the course of our kitchen rebuild, (in the spirit of "blow that dough" we decided to get a whole house 25 kw backup generator). We live in a semi rural area and while not far from the main trunk lines our house is at the end of one of the spur lines, and prior to buying the place a few years back a storm came through and our road was without power for almost 14 days...it was the last of the lines to be repaired (and all that was required was a line/lever switch to be thrown!).

We researched a few different manufacturers and landed with Cummins (Onan) LP gas powered unit. Although it was more expensive than Generac or Kohler, we did some more extensive research and found out that hospitals, businesses and other essential services use this brand more than the others due to it being a more robust unit and importantly, it runs at a lower rpm than the others for the same KW rating, so over time less wear and tear on the engine. In my book lower rpm and a more robust build was worth the extra outlay.

We have a buried 1000 gallon LP tank (which also serves the house) and the unit goes on a test every Tuesday, with once a month a running load test. It is pretty quiet (even without the hush kit), and has worked without any issues so far.

It took us several months to land the unit, since when we ordered it California had their wildfires (2018) and the backlog for whole house generators was several months.

 

[ls99]

A few years back added a transfer switch and brought home from camp a 12KW generator. Before the install frequnt hours long power outages. Since install an occasianal seconds long power interrupt. Just enough to have to reset clocks.

Proof positive, if you have backup power, utililty will perform nearly perfect.

 

[REWahoo]

A few years back added a transfer switch and brought home from camp a 12KW generator. Before the install frequnt hours long power outages. Since install an occasianal seconds long power interrupt.

Worked, didn't it.

 

[EllisWyatt]

We live out in the country and are literally the last house on our electrical grid. When the power goes out anywhere on the grid, we lose power. Not good when the whole house (except the gas stove) runs on electricity.

This typically happens at least twice a month, but usually only lastsfor 8-10 hours.
When we bought the place 10 years ago, the house came with a whole (well, 3/4) house generator. It's a Generac, but not sure if the output. It sits on a 3x5 slab, runs on propane (big pig tank) and, with the exception of having a dead battery once, we have had no issues whatsoever to date. It excercises for 10 minutes once a week. We have a service contract with the local dealer who comes out and does routine maintenance on it twice a year.

One thing we have noticed - during hurricane season on year, the generator ran for 11 days and didn't need to refill the tank. When we got an exceptionally rare snow storm, temps in the high teens, and lost power for 10 days, we had to refill the propane tank twice. Electric resistance heating is an energy hog!

Not a sales pitch, but we have been very pleased with our generator.

 

[ls99]

Worked, didn't it.

Like a charm.

 

[rk911]

A few years back added a transfer switch and brought home from camp a 12KW generator. Before the install frequnt hours long power outages. Since install an occasianal seconds long power interrupt. Just enough to have to reset clocks.

Proof positive, if you have backup power, utililty will perform nearly perfect.

ain't that the truth!

we had been wanting to do a whole house genny for a long time but it was at the bottom of our list of improvements. then, in one week, we experienced two 24-hr, clear sky (meaning no storms), summertime power outages. the genny was moved to the top of the list. once it was installed we didn't have a significant power failure for nearly 2-years.

 

[OldShooter]

Do folks here have their generator in the Garage? ... I have designed an exhaust extraction system that is sealed and passes to the outside behind the generator, I use a flexible car exhaust pipe, custom mounted to the Generator's OEM exhaust. ... AGAIN NOT Recommending this for any long term use and I do not. But I was curious if anyone has done a similar thing.

Yup. Our lake home generator is 13.5KW and lives bolted to the floor in the garage. The exhaust system is a bit like your rig but it is permanent:

and

​

I just welded a piece of fairly large aluminum tubing to a plate, then added high temp insulation and ran a black pipe exhaust. The surface area of the aluminum is plenty to dissipate the heat that gets through the insulation and the hole cut in the wood siding gives good clearance from the aluminum pipe. The 100# propane tank lives just to the left of the outside pipe.

It's an air-cooled Kohler engine and makes quite a bit of noise, as well as quite a bit of heat, so when it is running we leave the garage door open. I have never smelled any exhaust fumes in there even during long runs.

 

[Big_Hitter]

We got a bid to have a Generac installed. It was $10K.

yep, basically double the price of the generator for an all-in estimate

 

[Big_Hitter]

I had one installed after Rita in 2005, during Ike, we were the only house for miles with power.

if I lived in the gulf coast again, I'd definitely have one.

 

[Amethyst]

Why couldn't its exhaust be vented outside the garage?

Do folks here have their generator in the Garage? Yes, I know this is not recommended and I do NOT condone the action. I usually take mine outside if I am going to use it for an extended period of time.

.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Why couldn't its exhaust be vented outside the garage?

building code possibly - it's essentially an engine that runs off of NG

all of the residential standby generators I've ever seen were outside, but that was in houston

 

[travelover]

Why couldn't its exhaust be vented outside the garage?

It can be done, but if the venting somehow fails and CO gets into the house it is bad news. I keep mine in a carport.