Curious about a generator

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

We had a whole house Generac generator in our other house. Best thing we ever did as we had a lot of power outages every single year, most lasting a long time. We had a 2600 square foot house.

I don’t remember the cost as we had it bundled with Central AC installation. Had it done in the winter when the contractors are less busy. It was thousands I can tell you that. Maybe $10,000- not sure.

We had 2 100 gallon propane tanks for fuel. I think it could also run on gasoline.

Your new house doesn't have back-up power? Curious why you decided not to have any this time around?

 

[JoeWras]

Whoops! Sloppy proofreading this morning. "The Kohler" - I went through and did a "English professor" level of proofreading, haha!

Ha ha ha! I had no idea! I even googled the phrase, and ended up getting a w*rk nightmare flashback. (Something about effective w*rk flows with your cow*rkers). Google also produced a whole thing about God as your cow*rker too. So, I knew I was not on the right track.

Kohlers are good. Normally we think toilets, but they have a long history with engines used for agriculture and such. In the 90s I maintained and used a John Deere rider at my church. Never had any engine issues.

I might also be partial since Kohler provides good employment to a lot of my engineering friends who graduated from Midwest universities.

 

[meleana]

Your new house doesn't have back-up power? Curious why you decided not to have any this time around?

Well- we just moved here a few months ago and we are considering getting one. It’s just that from what we have been told they get few outages here. Our development has underground utilities, but of course, the city doesn’t.

We even checked the utility website and that seems to be the case.

So we need to weigh the cost/ benefit factor. We do plan on getting some quotes. Having a portable is not a good option because of the way our lot is and as someone else mentioned lugging it out in the snow and so forth.

Several residents do have one because they are snowbirds. We are not.

But my big concern is losing heat in the winter and also the food in the fridge/ freezer. We have municipal water here at least. Last house was a well and the pump was on the generator.

 

[Badger]

Went through the cost of a portable generator and decided to wait. It just got too expensive to justify the limited times we might need it.

1. Cost of portable generator
2. transfer panel
3. Electrical installations

4. pad for generator
5. purchase of LP tank and installation
6. permanent weather and sound proof cover (will not go out in a hurricane to set up)
7. any unknown costs



Since this is something I would not consider a DIY for me anymore the costs would probably exceed $5k.



The few times it would be necessary would be for the refrigerator and air conditioning in 100 degree weather and humidity. The cost of a few groceries and a stay in a hotel for a couple of days would be about $300 during a hurricane. Most other times the electricity is rarely off more than a day. It would be nice to have a whole house generator but the costs would be well over $15k with everything necessary. Awww NUTS!


Maybe I will look into buying a mid size freezer and load it half way with gallons of frozen water to keep the groceries from spoiling when there is an outage. That way I will at least have food and water although no air conditioning.


Thanks for everyones input.


Cheers!

 

[Sunset]

Long ago, I went through an ice storm, near the end of Winter, so power out all over. No backup power.

The freezer kept stuff cold as long as I kept it shut, and as the house got colder over the 2 or 3 days, it was less of a temperature difference between the freezer and the house.

I vaguely recall the situation lasting 2 -> 3 days, since it was near the end of Winter, there was not the severe minus temps, but I watched the house temp, because if it was going to get below 35F I was going to drain the water pipes and toilets so nothing would freeze.

I didn't lose my freezer food, and the power came back before having to drain the pipes.

 

[travelover]

Went through the cost of a portable generator and decided to wait. It just got too expensive to justify the limited times we might need it. ........

A middle position would be to just get a small portable generator and run an extension cord to the refrigerator and a window air conditioner. This Predator 3500 watt has electric start. That still leaves you with keeping fresh gas on hand and the generator battery charged, but all in you could do it for $1000.

 

[youbet]

Too subtle?

No one here would ever accuse you of being too subtle ERD50!

 

[REWahoo]

A middle position would be to just get a small portable generator and run an extension cord to the refrigerator and a window air conditioner.

This is the route we went many years ago. During a 2 day outage I purchased a 5500Kw portable (OK, luggable is probably more accurate) generator to run our refrigerator, freezer, tv, and most importantly, the PTAC in our game room. Gets the job done. Only had to use it three or four times in the 20+ years we've lived here so I can't see spending the $$ for a whole house generator.

 

[travelover]

This is the route we went many years ago. During a 2 day outage I purchased a 5500Kw portable (OK, luggable is probably more accurate) generator to run our refrigerator, freezer, tv, and most importantly, the PTAC in our game room. Gets the job done. Only had to use it three or four times in the 20+ years we've lived here so I can't see spending the $$ for a whole house generator.

Pretty much what I did, but since I had to update my service panel anyway, I added a service panel with an interlock that allows one to flip the main breaker off and engage a breaker wired to a generator inlet box. The advantage is no extension cords and every outlet in the house is energized, though power consumption has to be rationed due to size of generator.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

A middle position would be to just get a small portable generator and run an extension cord to the refrigerator and a window air conditioner.

As a renter, this is the most reasonable approach if I want to stay put during an outage. (I do)
With California PG&E's new policy of cutting power during high risk fire conditions we had plenty of practice last year - 4 outages lasting 3-5 days each.
Fortunately one of the triggers (low humidity) allows the use of a low power evaporative cooler instead of AC so we can get by with a small, quiet, inverter generator + 12v battery power for the tankless water heater, modem and router. The genset runs the fridge, cooler, lights, satellite receiver/TV and garage door opener with some orchestration.
To keep the carb running clean (end of use), I run dry, empty the bowl, then fill with a little white gas - repeat and store. No fuel preservative needed.

 

[meierlde]

As a renter, this is the most reasonable approach if I want to stay put during an outage. (I do)
With California PG&E's new policy of cutting power during high risk fire conditions we had plenty of practice last year - 4 outages lasting 3-5 days each.
Fortunately one of the triggers (low humidity) allows the use of a low power evaporative cooler instead of AC so we can get by with a small, quiet, inverter generator + 12v battery power for the tankless water heater, modem and router. The genset runs the fridge, cooler, lights, satellite receiver/TV and garage door opener with some orchestration.
To keep the carb running clean (end of use), I run dry, empty the bowl, then fill with a little white gas - repeat and store. No fuel preservative needed.

BTW it is possible to get conversion kits to convert a generator to propane (it is basically a new carb and some retuning). So then its back to deciding how much propane you need to have, (i.e. how long till you need a tank or tanks refilled). If you combine the generator with a one of the battery power banks you can keep portable electronics on without having to run the generator 7x20. With Fridges I suspect 6on 6 off might work ok.

 

[travelover]

BTW it is possible to get conversion kits to convert a generator to propane (it is basically a new carb and some retuning). ........

I converted my generator to natural gas by installing a gas regulator and drilling a feed hole in the carburetor right at the venturi. I added a quick connect right at the gas meter so it can be ready to go in a couple of minutes. I can still run gasoline if necessary, but I've not needed to in the two years since conversion.

 

[mountainsoft]

Long ago, I went through an ice storm, near the end of Winter, so power out all over. No backup power.

The freezer kept stuff cold as long as I kept it shut, and as the house got colder over the 2 or 3 days, it was less of a temperature difference between the freezer and the house.

I vaguely recall the situation lasting 2 -> 3 days, since it was near the end of Winter, there was not the severe minus temps, but I watched the house temp, because if it was going to get below 35F I was going to drain the water pipes and toilets so nothing would freeze.

I didn't lose my freezer food, and the power came back before having to drain the pipes.

Our power outages almost always occur during winter storms. I can't think of a single outage that lasted more than an hour or two during the summer.

During winter, if the power hasn't come back on within several hours, we box up the food in the fridge and put it outside where it's cold. We've never had any problems with critters getting into it.

Thankfully, we have a woodstove for heat so no worries about pipes freezing.

The biggest issue we have during power outages is the well pump not working. So we only get a few toilet flushes before the pressure tank is empty (the power never seems to go out when the tank is full.). With a little selective flushing and extra jugs of water it's usually not a big problem.

 

[kingkarmann]

Five years ago we added as MIL suite.
Our electric service was maxed out and had had instances of losing power for hours at a time 2-3 times per year. We decided with the addition and the needed electric service upgrade to go with a Generac 22KW. It's propane powered as we live away from city services. It will power the house.
Strangely, we have only had a couple of power losses in the five years we have had it. It is nice for piece of mind.

 

[Rustic23]

Our plan has always been to travel! We have gone through two hurricanes. Our neighborhood lost power for two weeks in both. Power company told us we should plan on that as that is where we are on the schedule.

Given a HHG would cost us at least $10,000, and about $1,500 to operate for a two week period, a motel seems like a better option. Figuring $200 a day, for 14 days, say $3,000. Add another $1,000 for all the food in the fridge/freezer. I think all these numbers are on the high side.

I don't worry about short term outage. The power company is good about letting us know how long they expect an outage to last, and travel is still an option.

If we get to the point where travel is not an option, moving may be, or we will consider a HHG then.

 

[EllisWyatt]

A quick update after my glowingly favorable comments about our whole house generator....
Had an interesting development. We changed out the lights in our living room to new LED lights. Have had old style incandescent bulbs and CFL lights before with no problem, however whe our power went out this time and the generator kicked on, the new LED lights became strobe lights. Very disconcerting. I never liked disco, but especially not in my house.
We have now replaced our new led lights with CFL lights again and whe we lost power.....no problem.

 

[ERD50]

A quick update after my glowingly favorable comments about our whole house generator....
Had an interesting development. We changed out the lights in our living room to new LED lights. Have had old style incandescent bulbs and CFL lights before with no problem, however when our power went out this time and the generator kicked on, the new LED lights became strobe lights. Very disconcerting. I never liked disco, but especially not in my house.
We have now replaced our new led lights with CFL lights again and when we lost power.....no problem.

Now that is curious. Are they on dimmers? LEDs can be particular with dimmers, but even so, I'm pretty sure that the output of a big unit like a Generac is pretty 'clean'. I wouldn't expect a problem like that. As I mentioned earlier, the 60 Hz frequency can drift ~ 10% (far more than your power company supplies), but even that shouldn't be a problem for LEDs.

I'd be at least a little concerned that it could be a sign of a bigger problem? I dunno, just doesn't sound right.

If the LEDs are sharing a circuit, try replacing one of them with an old-style filament bulb. That can 'damp out' problems on the line that the LEDS/Dimmer may be sensitive to.

-ERD50

 

[Souschef]

Funny thing, since we got our generator, we have not had a power outage.
BUT, with fire season, and the possibility of power shutdowns, it is a good feeling to have it.

 

[Dash man]

A quick update after my glowingly favorable comments about our whole house generator....

Had an interesting development. We changed out the lights in our living room to new LED lights. Have had old style incandescent bulbs and CFL lights before with no problem, however whe our power went out this time and the generator kicked on, the new LED lights became strobe lights. Very disconcerting. I never liked disco, but especially not in my house.

We have now replaced our new led lights with CFL lights again and whe we lost power.....no problem.

We have changed to all LED bulbs and have not had any flickering with our Generac. That seems really strange.

 

[Ronstar]

We have changed to all LED bulbs and have not had any flickering with our Generac. That seems really strange.

We’ve changed a bunch recessed lights to LED’s and no flickering with our Generac.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

A quick update after my glowingly favorable comments about our whole house generator....
Had an interesting development. We changed out the lights in our living room to new LED lights. Have had old style incandescent bulbs and CFL lights before with no problem, however whe our power went out this time and the generator kicked on, the new LED lights became strobe lights. Very disconcerting. I never liked disco, but especially not in my house.
We have now replaced our new led lights with CFL lights again and whe we lost power.....no problem.

A lot of generators put out square wave power instead of the sine-wave you get from your utility or a quality inverter in a battery based whole-house power back-up. It's cheaper that way but some LEDs, computers and other sensitive devices prefer pure sine wave AC.

 

[mountainsoft]

A quick update after my glowingly favorable comments about our whole house generator....
Had an interesting development. We changed out the lights in our living room to new LED lights. Have had old style incandescent bulbs and CFL lights before with no problem, however whe our power went out this time and the generator kicked on, the new LED lights became strobe lights. Very disconcerting. I never liked disco, but especially not in my house.
We have now replaced our new led lights with CFL lights again and whe we lost power.....no problem.

It sounds like your generator is not outputting a clean sine wave. Cheaper generators often produce noisier power (square waves or modified sine waves) which can cause problems with electronics (LED bulbs, computers, TV's, etc.).

You could try a different brand of LED bulbs, or install a dimmer made specifically for LED bulbs.

 

[ERD50]

A lot of generators put out square wave power instead of the sine-wave you get from your utility or a quality inverter in a battery based whole-house power back-up. It's cheaper that way but some LEDs, computers and other sensitive devices prefer pure sine wave AC.

It sounds like your generator is not outputting a clean sine wave. Cheaper generators often produce noisier power (square waves or modified sine waves) which can cause problems with electronics (LED bulbs, computers, TV's, etc.).

You could try a different brand of LED bulbs, or install a dimmer made specifically for LED bulbs.

But it's a Generac (see his post #42). A Generac is not putting out a 'modified sine wave(*1)' , a Generac uses an old style alternator, wires and iron. It should put out a pretty clean sine wave. I imagine they publish Harmonic Distortion figures?

Something's not right.

(*1) - that's a great marketing term, it's really a modified square wave, there's nothing sinusoidal about it!

edit/add: This is pretty technical, but says distortion should be < 10%, but they relate that to non-linear loads. I guess you should expect far < 10% unless there is some really wacky load on the system?

https://www.generac.com/industrial/...zing-Considerations-for-Comm-and-Ind-Gens.pdf

further edit: above was for their commercial line, you need to search based on model #

-ERD50

 

[JoeWras]

But it's a Generac (see his post #42). A Generac is not putting out a 'modified sine wave(*1)' , a Generac uses an old style alternator, wires and iron. It should put out a pretty clean sine wave. I imagine they publish Harmonic Distortion figures?

Something's not right.

(*1) - that's a great marketing term, it's really a modified square wave, there's nothing sinusoidal about it!

-ERD50

Their current marketing material says less than 5% THD.

I like your comment about "modified sine wave."

I liken it to "reclaimed water" instead of "processed sewage."

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

But it's a Generac (see his post #42). A Generac is not putting out a 'modified sine wave(*1)' , a Generac uses an old style alternator, wires and iron. It should put out a pretty clean sine wave. I imagine they publish Harmonic Distortion figures?

Something's not right.

(*1) - that's a great marketing term, it's really a modified square wave, there's nothing sinusoidal about it!

edit/add: This is pretty technical, but says distortion should be < 10%, but they relate that to non-linear loads. I guess you should expect far < 10% unless there is some really wacky load on the system?

https://www.generac.com/industrial/...zing-Considerations-for-Comm-and-Ind-Gens.pdf

further edit: above was for their commercial line, you need to search based on model #

-ERD50

It depends upon the Model and year of manufacture, blanket statements based upon brand are silly.

One thing they all have in common is the distortion is dependent upon the speed of an internal combustion engine that is dependent upon mechanical objects subject to wear, aging and corrosion. Any running problems with the engine can turn the electricity into in a hot mess. The engine has to be running smooth as butter to get clean power with low distortion. This is where whole house battery back-up systems have a huge edge (not to mention the silence and lack of maintenance and fumes).