Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[Koolau]

I'm impressed with the videos on FSD but not sure I would ever pay more for it per month than what I pay for my tags plus insurance. If I drove 50,000 miles/year - maybe. BUT, I love the technology and hope it spreads to other vehicles including ICE.

 

[audreyh1]

AFAIK you can make the decision month by month turning on and off as needed. In our case we only take long road trips once or twice a year. We also fly a lot for our travel and overall travel about 6 months of the year. At home we drive very little.

 

[Koolau]

AFAIK you can make the decision month by month turning on and off as needed. In our case we only take long road trips once or twice a year. We also fly a lot for our travel and overall travel about 6 months of the year. At home we drive very little.

On/off would be a good feature to have. We travel for months at a time, leaving a car behind.

 

[Fermion]

How is Tesla handling FSD if you get a speeding ticket? Are you responsible for the car exceeding the speed limit or is Tesla?

I ask this because on our current cross country trip, we have passed through several speed traps where Google claimed the speed limit was 65, or 55, or some number, but the actual speed limit was lower. One place Google said 55 and there had been a sign 1/4 mile before that said 35 and sure enough, a state trooper was parked waiting to catch people.

If Tesla uses a speed database and it has incorrect information like Google, are people going to be ticked off that they get a ticket under FSD?

I have no idea how any of this works, so be kind.

 

[RetMD21]

After a day trip for the eclipse I can see how FSD would be helpful and half price is better. I do appreciate not being constantly nagged as I was in auto steer. I would consider it for longer trips.

 

[DayDreaming]

How is Tesla handling FSD if you get a speeding ticket? Are you responsible for the car exceeding the speed limit or is Tesla?

I ask this because on our current cross country trip, we have passed through several speed traps where Google claimed the speed limit was 65, or 55, or some number, but the actual speed limit was lower. One place Google said 55 and there had been a sign 1/4 mile before that said 35 and sure enough, a state trooper was parked waiting to catch people.

If Tesla uses a speed database and it has incorrect information like Google, are people going to be ticked off that they get a ticket under FSD?

I have no idea how any of this works, so be kind.

Tesla makes it very clear that it's still the driver's responsibility to be in control of the car. All of the tech stuff is just there to assist the driver. So it's the driver's speeding ticket.

 

[audreyh1]

How is Tesla handling FSD if you get a speeding ticket? Are you responsible for the car exceeding the speed limit or is Tesla?

I ask this because on our current cross country trip, we have passed through several speed traps where Google claimed the speed limit was 65, or 55, or some number, but the actual speed limit was lower. One place Google said 55 and there had been a sign 1/4 mile before that said 35 and sure enough, a state trooper was parked waiting to catch people.

If Tesla uses a speed database and it has incorrect information like Google, are people going to be ticked off that they get a ticket under FSD?

I have no idea how any of this works, so be kind.

The driver is always responsible. FSD is L2, i.e. driver assist.

Fortunately FSD does a pretty good job of reading speed limit signs and rarely relies on map data to determine the speed limit. It readily handles temporary slower speeds in a construction zone for example.

 

[Midpack]

How is Tesla handling FSD if you get a speeding ticket? Are you responsible for the car exceeding the speed limit or is Tesla?

I ask this because on our current cross country trip, we have passed through several speed traps where Google claimed the speed limit was 65, or 55, or some number, but the actual speed limit was lower. One place Google said 55 and there had been a sign 1/4 mile before that said 35 and sure enough, a state trooper was parked waiting to catch people.

If Tesla uses a speed database and it has incorrect information like Google, are people going to be ticked off that they get a ticket under FSD?

I have no idea how any of this works, so be kind.

Tesla only uses Google maps for the map display, not for navigation, routing, or even points of interest. They've used MapBox since 2018 for navigation. For speed limits, Speed Assist actually reads speed limit signs (among other functions) - I know because the speed limits displayed in nav almost always change as you pass a sign with a different speed limit. It gets it wrong occasionally, but not often. As others have noted, the driver is fully responsible anyway.

 

[Sunset]

The other day I was walking out the grocery store, and I crossed the parking lot road, a Tesla was approaching... I wondered if it would auto brake before hitting me, so I just kept walking.

Will smart cars make pedestrians even more careless

 

[Midpack]

The other day I was walking out the grocery store, and I crossed the parking lot road, a Tesla was approaching... I wondered if it would auto brake before hitting me, so I just kept walking.

Will smart cars make pedestrians even more careless

Forward collision warning and automatic emergency braking predates Tesla and is common if not standard in most ADAS equipped cars these days. Relatively simple tech. Our last four cars have had it. As for making pedestrians more careless, smart phones already have…

 

[Badger]

The other day I was walking out the grocery store, and I crossed the parking lot road, a Tesla was approaching... I wondered if it would auto brake before hitting me, so I just kept walking.

Will smart cars make pedestrians even more careless

You are a lot braver than I am. I see this happening frequently in parking lots. I always figured that they were banking on getting hit at a slow speed and cashing in on a large lawsuit. I wouldn't trust electronic equipment to always work the way intended. Murphy's Law.

 

[Zathras]

You are a lot braver than I am. I see this happening frequently in parking lots. I always figured that they were banking on getting hit at a slow speed and cashing in on a large lawsuit. I wouldn't trust electronic equipment to always work the way intended. Murphy's Law.

And with Tesla vehicles, there will be video of thhe event.
So if it is clear that a pedestrian saw the vehicle, stepped out in front of it anyway, well that will be clear in court as well.

 

[Midpack]

You are a lot braver than I am. I see this happening frequently in parking lots. I always figured that they were banking on getting hit at a slow speed and cashing in on a large lawsuit. I wouldn't trust electronic equipment to always work the way intended. Murphy's Law.

At parking lot speeds, FCW & FCW/AEB “electronics” are very effective and the car will stop even if the driver isn’t paying attention. Scammers wouldn’t waste time on such a low probability ploy, unfortunately they’re smarter than that.

And with Tesla vehicles, there will be video of thhe event.
So if it is clear that a pedestrian saw the vehicle, stepped out in front of it anyway, well that will be clear in court as well.

Small consolation but above…

 

[audreyh1]

We continue to be impressed with FSD V12. Approaching Sedona it drove through a series of roundabouts flawlessly. Then we came to a double lane roundabout and it seemed to be waiting for both lanes to clear before proceeding, but all I had to do was press on the accelerator slightly and it went ahead into the open rightmost lane and completed. Interestingly that was the only time it needed help on a double lane roundabout. We’ve been through several doubles since and it merges in beautifully, no hesitation.

It really watches people and is careful around crosswalks. Handy in Sedona with all the tourists. It stops and waits very politely. Slows when people are at road edges. Today it stopped at a green light and we realized that it was waiting for traffic to clear just on the other side so as not to block the intersection, then moved forward when it cleared. We were impressed.

It has gone through many city construction areas perfectly, several quite tight. Merging well as needed. Heavy town traffic here.

One thing I had forgotten to mention before about FSD versus basic autopilot - twisty windy roads it slows as needed on tight turns. Drive beautifully. Autopilot would not do this and I usually had to take over. It’s so nice having the car adjust speed as is appropriate. We’ve been through several tight twisty ~15 mph road sections recently.

We’ve been driving FSD 12.3.4 the last couple of days. Somehow it managed to download even though we’re on the road and the car is not connected to WiFi. We’ve seen this once before.

BTW I don’t generally use FSD to navigate around parking lots. The navigation route usually ends shortly after entering and I’ll take over at that point as I decide where I prefer to park. It will just keep driving otherwise.

Another thing - driving Tucson to Sedona and around Phoenix: navigating on and off major interstates and changing freeways can be confusing even following step by step instructions, getting in the correct lane, etc. However Tesla NAV knew exactly which way to go, which lane etc. as long as construction hadn’t messed up the route.

 

[Sunset]

Forward collision warning and automatic emergency braking predates Tesla and is common if not standard in most ADAS equipped cars these days. Relatively simple tech. Our last four cars have had it. As for making pedestrians more careless, smart phones already have…

I understand our 27 yr old car doesn't have that feature. But my 9 yr old one doesn't either.

I still watch out for pedestrians

 

[explanade]

Feds investigating inadvertent emergency braking on Honda cars.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...to-hondas-automatic-emergency-braking-system/


As for FSD, sounds like the main value is on long stretches of highway, so that you can relax a bit, kind of like cruise control lets you relax your leg.

But for town traffic and shorter trips, there isn't as much value.

 

[sdtech]

Scheduled a test drive of a Tesla Model S - best "dealer" experience ever. The scheduling was online - and while openings were as early as in a couple of hours (!), I went two days later. Online registration was easy, but included uploading a drivers license picture.

When I got to the Tesla service center/show room the car was ready - they spent five minutes making sure I knew how the basic controls worked. Then said "Enjoy your drive and we'll see you in 30 minutes."

Zero sales pressure and very nice people.

While I was just entering a woman came in to pick up her new Model Y and trade in a Bolt. Must have been quick because she was gone when I returned and her Bolt was in the back lot.

Ordered a Model S Long Range last night.

 

[Midpack]

We continue to be impressed with FSD V12.

+1. I'm impressed as well, though it's still not perfect. V12 is a little better than V11 in some ways, unchanged in others, but presumably V12 is learning day by day.

At least based on my 3+ months experience, I have no doubt FSD V12 can safely take you from any location to another at least 99% of the time no matter what the circumstances.

The only clear areas for improvement to me are:

• While it handles traffic signals perfectly, including right turn on red, FSD is still just too cautious at stop signs. It stops on the line no matter what, then very slowly creeps forward, and waits for an excessively large gap to enter - at least on unprotected left turns. I am by no means an aggressive driver, FSD is more cautious with stop signs than any human, especially on unprotected left turns.
• It's overly cautious with pedestrians. Even a person standing next to the road who is clearly not going to cross gets a wide berth from FSD. A human driver can more easily tell when to be cautious around pedestrians.
• FSD is more conservative with yellow lights than humans.
• FSD is very good at reading and adjusting to speed limit changes, but it will get it wrong occasionally. It's a simple matter to override with the right scroll wheel, and I assume it will get better.

What FSD shows you quickely, is most humans don't follow the rules of the road to a "T" and right or wrong we have NHTSA and a skeptical public to thank for that. The stop sign and yellow light behaviors above are what we're supposed to do, but not what most humans do. Somewhat true re: pedestrians as well.

FSD V11 had no clue about potholes or speed bumps so you had to take control IME. There's evidence V12 is aware of (some) speed bumps, that's amazing.

I've let FSD drive through a couple construction zones, where lanes are totally reconfigured using cones, and drivers have to alternate and drive against the normal flow - and FSD has gotten that right each time. I have not been the lead car where a flag person was directing flow, I wonder how it would handle that? That is totally amazing to me.

Again if you stop and think about all the decisions FSD has to make, and knowing that road signs and markings aren't always as they should be, it's amazing how far Tesla FSD has come. I still don't know how they will handle night, pouring rain, snow or iced over roads (surely they have plans), but I don't doubt FSD will be at least 99% capable in fair weather.

 

[audreyh1]

Feds investigating inadvertent emergency braking on Honda cars.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...to-hondas-automatic-emergency-braking-system/


As for FSD, sounds like the main value is on long stretches of highway, so that you can relax a bit, kind of like cruise control lets you relax your leg.

But for town traffic and shorter trips, there isn't as much value.

Actually not true, town traffic and shorter trips it’s been great and very useful as you can see from my busy Sedona traffic and tourists experience.

 

[Midpack]

As for FSD, sounds like the main value is on long stretches of highway, so that you can relax a bit, kind of like cruise control lets you relax your leg.

But for town traffic and shorter trips, there isn't as much value.

Actually not true, town traffic and shorter trips it’s great as you can see from my Sedona experience.

+1. In the 3+ months I've used Tesla FSD, it has safely dealt with secondary roads, neighborhood roads, even parking lots to some extent without issues. FSD is almost flawless on highways/major roads, and almost as good elsewhere. Most of my FSD drives have been short trips and NOT on highways. I have safely and successfully gone to/from my house, to/from grocery and other stores, to/from golf course, to/from restaurants, to/from doctors, and all sorts of other places dozens of times - most not on highways.

OTOH GM, Ford and Mercedes "self driving" features are only good on highways - even restricted to them. Tesla FSD is FAR more capable already - you can enable FSD almost anywhere beyond your driveway and destination parking lots. There are dozens if not hundreds of Tesla FSD videos on YouTube that confirm this with actual driving footage.

 

[Chuckanut]

Scheduled a test drive of a Tesla Model S - best "dealer" experience ever. The scheduling was online - and while openings were as early as in a couple of hours (!), I went two days later. Online registration was easy, but included uploading a drivers license picture.

<snip>

Ordered a Model S Long Range last night.

I was very very tempted to schedule a test drive of a Model Y myself. However, upon the advice of a friend I called my insurance company and asked about the premium on a Model Y. Ugh! Another big increase it rates after three years of big increases. And a big increase in my tabs that are finally coming down to something reasonable (My tabs help pay for a new mass transit system that will hit my town in 2046. Lucky me.) I just couldn’t do it. I’ll keep my Hybrid and it’s 500 mile driving range.

 

[Midpack]

I was very very tempted to schedule a test drive of a Model Y myself. However, upon the advice of a friend I called my insurance company and asked about the premium on a Model Y. Ugh! I just couldn’t do it. I’ll keep my Hybrid and it’s 500 mile driving range.

So far EVs have cost more to insure, probably regional to some extent. Fortunately mine "only" went up about $400/yr with my MY vs a Hyundai Santa Fe Hybrid. So for both cars we're up 20% with my MY and DW's Honda Accord Hybrid. I knew it would cost more, worth the other benefits of an EV to me. Our significantly reduced fuel and maintenance costs could easily offset the insurance increase, time will tell. YMMV

 

[Golden Mean]

We’ve been driving FSD 12.3.4 the last couple of days. Somehow it managed to download even though we’re on the road and the car is not connected to WiFi. We’ve seen this once before.

My WAG guess would be, the car uses any "open" WIFI access points it sees. Unless they can push it down over the cell network?

 

[audreyh1]

My WAG guess would be, the car uses any "open" WIFI access points it sees. Unless they can push it down over the cell network?

Because it uses AT&T for cellular, I’m thinking some areas it gets a free AT&T hotspot.

During our trip we saw a yellow download new software indicator, and at least one point we saw it green.

 

[RetMD21]

I was very very tempted to schedule a test drive of a Model Y myself. However, upon the advice of a friend I called my insurance company and asked about the premium on a Model Y. Ugh! Another big increase it rates after three years of big increases. And a big increase in my tabs that are finally coming down to something reasonable (My tabs help pay for a new mass transit system that will hit my town in 2046. Lucky me.) I just couldn’t do it. I’ll keep my Hybrid and it’s 500 mile driving range.

I don't think I'm capable of driving 500 miles without stopping. If I was doing it regularly wouldn't have an EV. I drove 350+ miles for the eclipse and had a 20 minute stop to recharge and let the dog out. It was my first Supercharging in the last 3 months. Otherwise it is just a matter of plugging in at home.

My insurance increased by 50% with the Tesla but that was vs a 4 year old low spec Ford suv. I was expecting more with the the car value differing by 3x.