Help, Dad driving without a license

[aaronc879]

Just learned his insurance expires/renews in June, so hopefully he's going to get "caught" then. Not that we won't intervene, we're already trying, but worst case...

And he's already agreed to let my sister drive more, he just hasn't given up the option of driving himself - yet.

I disagree with those saying "take the keys away". He's a grown man and can make his own decisions. His children have no right to just take his keys away any more than he could take theirs away. If the kids can get power of attorney(or whatever it would be called in this case) then they could take the keys away. Otherwise all you can do is encourage him to get his license or discourage him the drive. Sabotaging his car or stealing his keys is inexcusable.

 

[Midpack]

I disagree with those saying "take the keys away". He's a grown man and can make his own decisions. His children have no right to just take his keys away any more than he could take theirs away. If the kids can get power of attorney(or whatever it would be called in this case) then they could take the keys away. Otherwise all you can do is encourage him to get his license or discourage him the drive. Sabotaging his car or stealing his keys is inexcusable.

+1

 

[euro]

I disagree with those saying "take the keys away". He's a grown man and can make his own decisions. His children have no right to just take his keys away any more than he could take theirs away. If the kids can get power of attorney(or whatever it would be called in this case) then they could take the keys away. Otherwise all you can do is encourage him to get his license or discourage him the drive. Sabotaging his car or stealing his keys is inexcusable.

I largely agree but that's not all you can do. He is violating the law by driving without a license and should be reported to the authorities (both, for public safety and for potential insurance/liability reasons). If he can renew his license then fair enough. If not, he has no business driving a car.
My teen-aged son had his license suspended and I would have absolutely turned him into the police if I had caught him driving a car while suspended.

 

[Midpack]

I largely agree but that's not all you can do. He is violating the law by driving without a license and should be reported to the authorities (both, for public safety and for potential insurance/liability reasons). If he can renew his license then fair enough. If not, he has no business driving a car.
My teen-aged son had his license suspended and I would have absolutely turned him into the police if I had caught him driving a car while suspended.

If it comes to that, we may, but not until we've exhausted more humane approaches. It's easy to anonymously recommend 'tough love' as a first step to a stranger, something else to undertake with your immediate family.

And his license expired less than 24 hours ago, he didn't instantly become unsafe on the road overnight. We're starting with four of the recommendations we received here, we'll see how that goes, I'm hopeful we won't have to resort to anything that could forever sour our relationship with our father for the remainder of his life...

 

[euro]

It's easy to anonymously recommend 'tough love' as a first step to a stranger, something else to undertake with your immediate family.

I totally agree with you on that - I've been in your situation and I know that there are few good choices. I was lucky that my DF's car failed inspections before the driver's license issue "hit the fan". Turned out he was too cheap to invest the cash into properly fixing the car* (or buy a new one), so he decided that he rather quit driving.

* he lives in Europe and car inspections tend to be much tougher (and repairs much more expensive) than in the US

 

[Just_Steve]

Sabotaging his car or stealing his keys is inexcusable.

And criminal.

 

[ERD50]

I disagree with those saying "take the keys away". He's a grown man and can make his own decisions. His children have no right to just take his keys away any more than he could take theirs away. If the kids can get power of attorney(or whatever it would be called in this case) then they could take the keys away. Otherwise all you can do is encourage him to get his license or discourage him the drive. Sabotaging his car or stealing his keys is inexcusable.

Except driving privileges come with a responsibility. The DMV has a vision test, you don't get to decide that you are still safe unless you pass it. We are (supposed to be) a nation of laws.

Personal hot button for me - years ago, I was hit by a big old Buick, it blew right through a stop sign at an exit ramp from a main road, probably still going the 50 mph speed limit of that road. It was a blind intersection to me, no way I could stop in time.

I hit the seat belt so hard (no air bag in this car in 1988), man, it was like a really big sadistic guy just swung a baseball bat smack across my chest. Got knocked unconscious, came to at the side of the road with my left hand bent back like a pretzel. That hurt like hell as well.

As 'luck' would have it, we ended up next to each other in curtained areas in the ER, and I overheard his family say something to him about "OK, Dad, that's it - now you are done driving". The context seemed like they had had the conversation with him before.

I spent the night in ICU, another week in the hospital with bruised ribs, a bruise all the way across my chest from the seat belt, a cast for that wrist, barely able to get out of bed and walk, awful aches and pains making it hard to get any sleep at all for weeks. Took months to get anywhere back to normal - then physical therapy, and years of other problems with my back and knees, and my wrist will never be fully recovered. DW had to look after me a lot for a while.

No, you don't get to decide that you can drive if the DMV is going to say no. That is just so self-centered and arrogant it makes we want to spit!

-ERD50

 

[MissMolly]

Except driving privileges come with a responsibility. The DMV has a vision test, you don't get to decide that you are still safe unless you pass it. We are (supposed to be) a nation of laws.

Personal hot button for me - years ago, I was hit by a big old Buick, it blew right through a stop sign at an exit ramp from a main road, probably still going the 50 mph speed limit of that road. It was a blind intersection to me, no way I could stop in time.

I hit the seat belt so hard (no air bag in this car in 1988), man, it was like a really big sadistic guy just swung a baseball bat smack across my chest. Got knocked unconscious, came to at the side of the road with my left hand bent back like a pretzel. That hurt like hell as well.

As 'luck' would have it, we ended up next to each other in curtained areas in the ER, and I overheard his family say something to him about "OK, Dad, that's it - now you are done driving". The context seemed like they had had the conversation with him before.

I spent the night in ICU, another week in the hospital with bruised ribs, a bruise all the way across my chest from the seat belt, a cast for that wrist, barely able to get out of bed and walk, awful aches and pains making it hard to get any sleep at all for weeks. Took months to get anywhere back to normal - then physical therapy, and years of other problems with my back and knees, and my wrist will never be fully recovered. DW had to look after me a lot for a while.

No, you don't get to decide that you can drive if the DMV is going to say no. That is just so self-centered and arrogant it makes we want to spit!

-ERD50

+1

I cannot believe some people are willing to jeopardize the life and well being of others for fear of making their aged parent mad. And I am not someone advocating to take keys away without knowing how the parent feels. When our mother became noticeably impaired in her ability to drive, reduced response to what was happening around her, driving very slowly, etc. it was obvious she had become a danger to herself and others. We did not want that on our conscious. We took her keys away. Without discussion. Was she mad? Of course she was. But we hired in-home help to drive her wherever she wanted to go whenever she wanted to go on a daily basis and I took her to all doctor appointments/grocery shopping/out to eat etc. She accepted it. She didn't like it, but she accepted it and we all slept better knowing she and other drivers were safer.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I disagree with those saying "take the keys away". He's a grown man and can make his own decisions. His children have no right to just take his keys away any more than he could take theirs away. If the kids can get power of attorney(or whatever it would be called in this case) then they could take the keys away. Otherwise all you can do is encourage him to get his license or discourage him the drive. Sabotaging his car or stealing his keys is inexcusable.

Then dad should just drive to the DMV and get his license renewed all by himself, OP and sis don't need to be involved at all. But dad seems to be asking for their involvement--he's not driving himself to the ophthalmologist, for example.

Here's a recent Illinois story about an 87 year old driving in the wrong lanes--sad for his family that the accident killed a man and caused an 18 year old to lose her leg according to follow up stories : http://m.thejournal-news.net/mobile...cle_01b54640-5792-11e6-afac-9707f448dfc7.html

 

[Sunset]

Except driving privileges come with a responsibility. The DMV has a vision test, you don't get to decide that you are still safe unless you pass it. We are (supposed to be) a nation of laws.

......
No, you don't get to decide that you can drive if the DMV is going to say no. That is just so self-centered and arrogant it makes we want to spit!

Totally agree.

If he passes the test for driving, then fine he can drive like anyone, otherwise no as he is engaging in criminal behavior.
Call the police, let them be the enforcers , a ticket, court, impounded car will discourage illegal behavior.

Maybe your sister is not so keen to drive and lies about it, perhaps that is part of the problem, he can't get out much ?

 

[pb4uski]

Perhaps Midpack and show DF ERD50's post and the linked article a couple posts prior and DF will either agree to stop driving or agree to get his license renewed (and agree to stop driving if the DMV determines he is a danger to the public). One would think an MD could see that logic and would not want to be a public danger.

 

[kcowan]

Why can't he just take taxis?

MIL was in the same boat at age 90 but she accepted the outcome. So we set her up with a corporate account at the local taxi company (she could have a profile with the nationality of the driver and type of car) all billed to us. She also could be taken to 2 different plazas twice a week in a mini-bus. She never used any of it.

She decided that it was payback time for DW. 3x a week for the day. 45 minutes one way then going to all the stores that had specials. It drove DW crazy until I insisted she reframe it. Think of it as 3 days with Mom doing what she liked best.

This went on for 3 years until MIL died of lung cancer. We were glad to be able to do it for her. Sometimes I would tag along and spend the day in her townhouse. Then we would go out to dinner with or without her depending on her choice.

My Dad had his license lifted at age 94. He was angry because it was mental capacity not vision caused by a series of mini-strokes. So instead of him driving out to our acreage every Sunday, we would plan an event where we went to him. It was tough because he resented the lack of freedom but it only lasted 4 months until a mini-stroke caused him to fall and break his hip. He died 3 days later.

 

[Midpack]

Again, we're pursuing:

1. Making him understand he may be personally liable, insurance invalid or reduced. We know he wants to maintain his estate to pass to my sister.
2. He has an eye doc appt Thursday, but we're not hopeful. Just learned he had to get his optometrist (different than this week) involved to keep his license 2 years ago, and was told the he wouldn't approve next time.
3. We're trying to convince him to attempt to renew his license, might pass, but not likely so far.
4. He's already turned more driving over to my sister, just not all.
5. We may resort to notifying his insurance provider, they will catch him in June if we do nothing, but we don't want to wait.
6. A few other cards we may play if needed.

My sister is more than willing to drive him every day if he'll allow it. She lives with him.

For those who give examples of taking keys away from parents, the first hand examples cite a parent that was clearly unsafe. Not the case for us. My sister rides with our Dad at least twice a week, and she is completely comfortable with his driving ability. I rode with him in November and he seemed fine. He's only been in one auto accident in 95 years, and he was entirely not at fault (just so happens I was with him).

We're not going to just let this go, he had a birthday but he didn't go from safe to unsafe overnight. We hope to convince him within a few weeks. If not, we'll entertain less friendly options.

 

[folivier]

I remember as a kid having to ride with my grandpaw into town in his old Dodge with the push button transmission. After a few times bouncing off the curbs I refused.
http://www.franklin-la.com/MainStreet/home_pictures/history.jpg

 

[ERD50]

For those who give examples of taking keys away from parents, the first hand examples cite a parent that was clearly unsafe. Not the case for us. ....

Then, as others have said, he should have no problem proving that to the DMV. You (he) are trying to have it both way - he's safe, but won't prove it to the DMV? That does not add up, it sounds like grade-school logic (I could lift this house off the ground! If I wanted! I just don't feel like it!).

You don't get to decide, the DMV does.

And though you may not be legally accountable for "aiding and abetting" him in his crime, I feel you are morally accountable. Don't you think I wish that family had talked their Dad out of driving before he almost killed me? We had a one month old at the time, this was pretty rough on DW, dealing with our young son, plus a 1 month old, and me.

-ERD50

 

[MissMolly]

Actually, I took my mother to the DMV. She passed the test. But she was ready to respond quickly and was waiting for the little light to blink so she could hit the brakes on the testing machine. However, in real life, that's not how it works. You are distracted, looking all around and not sitting there staring at one little red light to blink in order to hit the brakes timely. We still took her keys away anyway.

 

[JoeWras]

This is difficult, and wish you best Midpack. Dad had to bust down the garage door before he started wondering about his ability. Even then, he blamed "unintended acceleration." He was lucky nobody was hurt or that the building didn't sag and have structural issues.

Later, after not driving, he admitted to me being lost many times while on the road. Wow.

This situation is one of those times where everyone walks a unique journey. I remember reading about it before it happened, and thinking it would be straightforward. When the time came, it was so much more difficult than I could have imagined.

 

[redduck]

I had a roommate who's was going blind with RP. He worked an Optometrist who signed off on him seeing 20/40. We never believed he could see that, he mentioned he was given a couple of Mulligans along the way.

Below are pics to increase one's understanding of the above post.





A couple of Mulligans.

 

[MichaelB]

This is an emotionally difficult situation for the people involved, so let's make an effort to keep it friendly and positive.

 

[Midpack]

We just reached a successful conclusion, in less than 24 hours. Once we convinced Dad that he would now be personally liable and lose all or part of his $ estate in an accident, he made the right decision. He called USAA and they confirmed what we'd told him. He's instructed my sister to sell his car, and plans to cancel auto insurance and modify his umbrella policy.

He's depressed, but he'll adjust, he's adjusted to much worse.

Fortunately my sister is more than happy to drive him wherever he wants to go, and she lives with him so it's as convenient as it could be. He will be considerate of her time.

The suggestions below were the first most helpful for us to reach the best approach more quickly than we might have on our own. My sincere thanks, this is a great group.

Yeow! This is perhaps risking bankruptcy if he's at fault in a serious accident that injures someone else. The reason is that almost certainly his insurance policy requires that the driver have a valid driver's license. If it's only lapsed by a day or so the company might overlook it, but a year from now the company would be completely within their rights to deny any coverage at all.

Cars are about independence, not driving any more means losing one's independence and relying on others for simple things. Not easy to accept or adjust to this.

If you explained to him the risks involved and that each time he drives without a license that he is risking losing all or a good portion what he spent his lifetime accumulating, might he listen to that? ... not to mention how he would feel if he killed or maimed or injured someone.

 

[REWahoo]

The best possible outcome under the circumstances. Glad you were able to help him reach the decision so quickly.

 

[MichaelB]

The best possible outcome under the circumstances. Glad you were able to help him reach the decision so quickly.

+1

 

[MissMolly]

+1

 

[Texas Proud]

Except driving privileges come with a responsibility. The DMV has a vision test, you don't get to decide that you are still safe unless you pass it. We are (supposed to be) a nation of laws.

Personal hot button for me - years ago, I was hit by a big old Buick, it blew right through a stop sign at an exit ramp from a main road, probably still going the 50 mph speed limit of that road. It was a blind intersection to me, no way I could stop in time.

I hit the seat belt so hard (no air bag in this car in 1988), man, it was like a really big sadistic guy just swung a baseball bat smack across my chest. Got knocked unconscious, came to at the side of the road with my left hand bent back like a pretzel. That hurt like hell as well.

As 'luck' would have it, we ended up next to each other in curtained areas in the ER, and I overheard his family say something to him about "OK, Dad, that's it - now you are done driving". The context seemed like they had had the conversation with him before.

I spent the night in ICU, another week in the hospital with bruised ribs, a bruise all the way across my chest from the seat belt, a cast for that wrist, barely able to get out of bed and walk, awful aches and pains making it hard to get any sleep at all for weeks. Took months to get anywhere back to normal - then physical therapy, and years of other problems with my back and knees, and my wrist will never be fully recovered. DW had to look after me a lot for a while.

No, you don't get to decide that you can drive if the DMV is going to say no. That is just so self-centered and arrogant it makes we want to spit!

-ERD50

+Whatever number....


Your father, who does not have a license should not be driving.... period... heck, I could care less if he is a good driver or not....


But, as the post above shows, he could KILL somebody..... and that somebody did not get a vote into if he should be driving or not.... the State is the one who says you can or you cannot.... if the State says NO, then the answer is NO... PERIOD....

I will say, my mom gave up here keys herself... she was aware of her declining ability... she knew her memory was going (not her vision) and did not want to get lost.... she had gotten lost a couple of times and that drove it home... she had a valid DL and would have passed the test again if she had taken it...


Edit to add... just got to the post about him giving up his car..... good for him!!!

 

[euro]

We just reached a successful conclusion, in less than 24 hours. Once we convinced Dad that he would now be personally liable and lose all or part of his $ estate in an accident, he made the right decision. He called USAA and they confirmed what we'd told him. He's instructed my sister to sell his car, and plans to cancel auto insurance and modify his umbrella policy.

He's depressed, but he'll adjust, he's adjusted to much worse.

Fortunately my sister is more than happy to drive him wherever he wants to go, and she lives with him so it's as convenient as it could be. He will be considerate of her time.

The suggestions below were the first most helpful for us to reach the best approach more quickly than we might have on our own. My sincere thanks, this is a great group.

Good for your dad! Impressive