Is a car a necessity? Gen Y has a different outlook than previous generations.

[Frugalityisthenewblack]

Wheels.ca – Generation Y threatens auto demand

There has been a 10% drop in the number of licenced drivers in the 20-24 age group. Now only 8 out of 10 people in that group drive---it was over 90% in the 80s. I remember the first time I had my licence at 16, what a thrill it was to have that independence! I couldn't imagine at that age...not wanting to have your driver's licence.
Of course lower wages and spiralling insurance costs make it unaffordable to many---so they choose the urban lifestyle and walk/take transit.

A car really is a discretionary thing if you have reliable public transit. It is not as convienient, true.

Right now I use my electric bike to get around town...no gas expenses and no big insurance cost. For me now a car not only is a discretionary item...but it is often a bit of a pain..trying to find parking etc.

 

[W2R]

I think that is a wonderful trend, and kudos to those Gen Y folks who can and do manage this.

I want to join them sometime in the next 10 years. I absolutely refuse to be one of those crazy old biddies who continue driving way too long. No way am I going to end up mowing down a sidewalk full of pedestrians for some stupid, avoidable reason such as hitting the accelerator instead of the brakes, as so often happens.

As it is, I am only driving about 200 miles/month and a lot of that is just pleasure drives, to keep my skills refreshed. Otherwise I could probably only drive 80 miles/month or so.

 

[Amethyst]

I'm not surprised younger people are trying to save money by not buying a car. A car is so expensive (and risky) to own, and depreciates so quickly - if you can possibly do without one, you can save quite a bit. A friend who lives in a semi-urban area, relies on Zipcar when she needs to get somewhere that doesn't have public transportation. She routinely visits relatives by train.

Amethyst

Wheels.ca – Generation Y threatens auto demand

There has been a 10% drop in the number of licenced drivers in the 20-24 age group. Now only 8 out of 10 people in that group drive---it was over 90% in the 80s. I remember the first time I had my licence at 16, what a thrill it was to have that independence! I couldn't imagine at that age...not wanting to have your driver's licence.
Of course lower wages and spiralling insurance costs make it unaffordable to many---so they choose the urban lifestyle and walk/take transit.

A car really is a discretionary thing if you have reliable public transit. It is not as convienient, true.

Right now I use my electric bike to get around town...no gas expenses and no big insurance cost. For me now a car not only is a discretionary item...but it is often a bit of a pain..trying to find parking etc.

 

[Gumby]

I absolutely refuse to be one of those crazy old biddies who continue driving way too long. No way am I going to end up mowing down a sidewalk full of pedestrians for some stupid, avoidable reason such as hitting the accelerator instead of the brakes, as so often happens.

As it is, I am only driving about 200 miles/month and a lot of that is just pleasure drives, to keep my skills refreshed. Otherwise I could probably only drive 80 miles/month or so.

About 20 years ago, there was an old guy who lived across the street. He very rarely left his house, but if ever there was a snowstorm, he would invariably be out driving his big Buick before the snowplow ever cleared the street. I have know idea where he went that he couldn't have gone when conditions were better. I think maybe he just wanted to prove that he still could.

 

[FIREd]

I got my first car at age 23. Until then I always lived in urban areas and never needed one. Now that I am back living in an urban setting, the car has once again become unnecessary. I still own one, but it is really an expensive luxury at this point. Using a Zipcar would probably be more economical (parking and insurance are both very expensive where I live). I only use my car to take short, out-of-town trips on the weekends (< 200 miles a month). Otherwise I walk and use public transportation.

 

[rescueme]

Back in the mid-90's, I had the fortunate experience to manage a group that was based in Lyon, France.

One of the folks that reported to me was a person who had three childen - the eldest in his early-mid 20's, going for his grad degree.

He had no license to drive a car, nor had any desire to do so. Being in a large city (with Metro/Bus service, along with his own bike) he felt he had no need to obtain a drivers license. His friends (who also attended Uni) felt the same way.

While his parents could not understand his "non-desire" to get a license, it was apparent to me that he had the facilities to become "free" without having one.

He did not have to worry about parking (most flats in Lyon had underground parking - at a preimum) nor did he have to worry about vehicle maintance costs, plus the cost of of the vehicle itself.

It seemed kind of strange (to me, and my co-worker, his parent) we both realized that it was another generation. If it met his needs (and he did not need a "back seat" for any "activities"), so be it.

While I didn't fully agree, I understood the situation, as it was...

 

[Marathoner]

I hope that zipcar or competitors beef up their services. Right now, I only drive occasionally on the weekends, and if needed could go carfree, though I would miss out on one of my running groups, narrowing my friend-circle, and put the burden of visiting on my parents, which is not a good solution as they age.

 

[FIREd]

Back in the mid-90's, I had the fortunate experience to manage a group that was based in Lyon, France.

One of the folks that reported to me was a person who had three childen - the eldest in his early-mid 20's, going for his grad degree.

He had no license to drive a car, nor had any desire to do so. Being in a large city (with Metro/Bus service, along with his own bike) he felt he had no need to obtain a drivers license. His friends (who also attended Uni) felt the same way.

While his parents could not understand his "non-desire" to get a license, it was apparent to me that he had the facilities to become "free" without having one.

He did not have to worry about parking (most flats in Lyon had underground parking - at a preimum) nor did he have to worry about vehicle maintance costs, plus the cost of of the vehicle itself.

It seemed kind of strange (to me, and my co-worker, his parent) we both realized that it was another generation. If it met his needs (and he did not need a "back seat" for any "activities"), so be it.

While I didn't fully agree, I understood the situation, as it was...

I lived in Lyon for 5 years without a car and I totally understand why one would not want to own a car there. Public transportation inside the city is very efficient and since Lyon is a regional train hub, it offers convenient train service to lots of desirable destinations from Paris, to the Alps, to Provence. Owning a car there is more inconvenient than beneficial IMO.

 

[Alan]

We didn't own a car until we'd moved to the burbs and needed a car to get to work - we were aged 22 and living in England.

Wind forward 25 years in the USA and DD and SIL also had no car until they moved out from the city center and worked at companies outside of the city center before they bought a car. They were aged 22 and 23.

Last year we lived in a small Yorkshire town for 7 months (pop. 25,000) and managed quite nicely without a car. The key, of course, is good public transportation.

 

[rescueme]

Public transportation inside the city is very efficient and since Lyon is a regional train hub, it offers convenient train service to lots of desirable destinations from Paris, to the Alps, to Provence. Owning a car there is more inconvenient than beneficial IMO.

Exactly. I took the TGV from CDG (Paris) on a monthly basis after I few in from the US (overnight), and delivered me to my hotel (currently the Raddison) in 2hr 10m - faster than an airplane (when accounting for the wait time and the taxi drive from the Lyon airport to my hotel, which was just a block away from the Part-Dieu station Gare de Lyon-Part-Dieu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

DW/me also were based there when we took a local train over to Chamonix (Monc Blanc) on several vacation trips.

It's easy to get around France (and the rest of Europe) via train. Too bad the U.S. does not have the same network. Of course, we in the US put our "bet" on the auto after WWII; but that's another story...

 

[FUEGO]

There has been an increase locally in moped accidents. Apparently more youngish people are unable or uninterested in getting a license to drive a car, and instead opting to go unlicensed and get a moped or scooter. I think anything 50cc and under doesn't require a license. Adding up the costs of an auto, license, insurance, taxes, etc and it takes up a big part of a minimum wage earner's salary. Bus service locally isn't great but isn't non-existent.

 

[KingB]

About 20 years ago, there was an old guy who lived across the street. He very rarely left his house, but if ever there was a snowstorm, he would invariably be out driving his big Buick before the snowplow ever cleared the street. I have know idea where he went that he couldn't have gone when conditions were better. I think maybe he just wanted to prove that he still could.

Snowplow driver/operator?

 

[ziggy29]

I would love to have a future in a neighborhood where I didn't need a car. Problem is I also want a neighborhood that isn't busy, crowded and noisy, so these desires are mutually exclusive...

 

[rescueme]

I would love to have a future in a neighborhood where I didn't need a car. Problem is I also want a neighborhood that isn't busy, crowded and noisy, so these desires are mutually exclusive...

I understand that old age homes are quiet - and you don't need transportaton.

I'm sure you can "grow" into this future lifestyle...

 

[Gumby]

Snowplow driver/operator?

He was far too old to be a snowplow driver.

 

[haha]

When many of us were young we wanted cars even if we lived in an urban area. A car was freedom, and a mobile bedroom.

Today's young people often do not have those constraints so cars are less necessary. Both my sons were ~20 when they started driving.

Ha

 

[Nords]

There has been a 10% drop in the number of licenced drivers in the 20-24 age group. Now only 8 out of 10 people in that group drive---it was over 90% in the 80s. I remember the first time I had my licence at 16, what a thrill it was to have that independence! I couldn't imagine at that age...not wanting to have your driver's licence.
Of course lower wages and spiralling insurance costs make it unaffordable to many---so they choose the urban lifestyle and walk/take transit.

There has been an increase locally in moped accidents. Apparently more youngish people are unable or uninterested in getting a license to drive a car, and instead opting to go unlicensed and get a moped or scooter. I think anything 50cc and under doesn't require a license. Adding up the costs of an auto, license, insurance, taxes, etc and it takes up a big part of a minimum wage earner's salary. Bus service locally isn't great but isn't non-existent.

I think another cause of the drop is Internet connectivity & social media. If you can hang out with your friends online, then why bother driving somewhere?

The requirements for my daughter to get a driver's license in Hawaii were far more harsh (and lengthy, and expensive) than the process I went through in Pennsylvania. It could be regional differences, but I bet it's safety & insurance requirements. I think that we're actively discouraging teens from getting driver's licenses, and that parents are being discouraged from ponying up the funds to do so.

 

[scrabbler1]

When someone gets his drivers license and when someone buys his own car are two different things. I got my license when I was 18 (which was older than many HS classmates I had at the time) and was driving around the family cars for several years until I bought my own car when I was nearly 23 after living in Manhattan for nearly a year after I graduated college. I got tired of living in Manhattan and wanted to own my own car and be able to get round more easily.

 

[Midpack]

I'd love to live somewhere we didn't need a car at all, but those places are rare and/or typically expensive, so it seems very unlikely for us. I like the Zipcar idea, but they're only in larger cities understandably. I hope we can at least go from two cars to one with our next move, relying on public trans, alternative trans (bike, scooter, EV, walking), Zipcar/rental cars. Baby steps...

 

[Gumby]

I'd love to live somewhere we didn't need a car at all, but those places are rare and/or typically expensive, so it seems very unlikely for us. I like the Zipcar idea, but they're only in larger cities understandably. I hope we can at least go from two cars to one with our next move, relying on public trans, alternative trans (bike, scooter, EV, walking), Zipcar/rental cars. Baby steps...

I love cars. I like to drive them just for the sake of driving and I like to tinker with them. We have three now and if we had more room, we might have more cars. I got my driver's license on my 16th birthday and I thought it very odd that my nephews did not.

 

[aaronc879]

I got my license when I was 16. Driver's ed. was part of the school ciriculum. Everyone that i'm aware of got their license at 16. I used my life savings to buy a $1500 10 year old Corolla. Then I got a job and paid all expenses myself including $150/mo for liability only(crazy!). I live in a small town where everyone drives. Public transit exists but is rarely used and walking is very difficult most of the year in the upper midwest. I don't put on a lot of miles but I think i'll have a car until I die or go to a "home".

 

[unclemick]

1959 - totally different era. Rock and roll, cruising the drive-in's, drag racing stoplight to stoplight, keg parties in the countryside, as mentioned mobile bedroom ,etc.



When back in the old stomping grounds(50th High School reunion) I wasn't the only one who cruised Capt'n Yoby's for fish and chips - third location change since the 1950's but still going strong.

At 69 the emotional bond is still there - transending any spreadsheet numbers or 'Heaven Forbid' - practicality.

Heh heh heh - Just may have one more sports car/rat rod/muscle car in these bones before I park the car keys.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

My wife and I just had a discussion the other day about the driving thing. At this stage in her life she can't see well enough to drive at night and never drives if I am available. As we are in our mid 70's, we often discuss the future; what will one do in the absence of the other, sell or keep the house, what are the options for our lifestyles, etc. One big thing that keeps coming up in the discussions is transportation. We have both agreed that we wouldn't move out of the community because we both have the need to get out and mix with people, go to the grocery, a restaurant, the doctor, church, etc.

Our means of transportation will be the golf cart. Just sold our old one and getting a newer one next Saturday. We are excited. The old one was your run-of-the-mill golf cart that was typically used on golf courses. Plain Jane, sturdy, slow but functional. The one we purchased has side curtains in case of rain, lights and is faster. Most of the carts in the city are capablle of 19 mph but some are souped up to even go faster. Some have totally enclcosed plastic bodies while others are mockups of 57 Chevy's, 32 Ford Model A roadsters, Caddy's, Mercedes, BMW's, etc. Some cost up to $10k. The one we bought is a 2003 EZGO for $1000.

Sorry for going on so long but there are solutions out there to the transportation problem. Of coure you have to find a city that allows the carts and is designed to accommodate them. There is a lot of info online. Maybe the best known city in Florida with golf carts is The Villiages. So, don't despair. There are solutions to this problem. Seek and you shall find.

 

[NW-Bound]

Not an expert, but I will share what I know.

I thought small mopeds or scooters with an engine under 50cc still require a driver's license, and these vehicles still have to be titled and registered. What they do not require is a motorcyclist license. The presumption is that they do not require special motorcycle riding skills, and any legal car driver would already know the rules of the road to ride safely. These have a headlight, brake light, turn signals, and a horn.

And then, there's a new class of "power assisted" bicycles. Think electric bikes, or bikes with an added-on little gas engine with a friction wheel to drive the bike tire. I think these are the ones that are classified as bicycles, and require no license nor title.

The problem is there is a big overlap, and the division line can get blurred.

There has been an increase locally in moped accidents. Apparently more youngish people are unable or uninterested in getting a license to drive a car, and instead opting to go unlicensed and get a moped or scooter. I think anything 50cc and under doesn't require a license. Adding up the costs of an auto, license, insurance, taxes, etc and it takes up a big part of a minimum wage earner's salary. Bus service locally isn't great but isn't non-existent.

 

[plex]

Badly needed a car for jobs between 16-24. The locations were all over the place, and they were with a dozen different companies, most places in the US are not public transportation friendly at all, and this was definitely one of those.

Then 25-30, there was no need for a car at all, job search then moved to heavy metro area, I would have dropped the driver's license if not for being forced to re-take the driver's test again if I want to drive again.

At 30-~55, I'll definitely need a car again, because I will not need to be in a metro area, the extra cost for the amenities would be useless to me at that point.

55+, I'll not really need one again, I'll move to a retiree area that at least has the option to deliver groceries for you, either in a special 55+ community or a heavy metro area, and I'll also try to find a place that is golf-cart friendly. My tax situation will also be quite different because states actually try to go out of their way to offer incentives to seniors, rather than doing it mostly by accident in the case of very early retirees/teleworkers. I'll have very different needs when I transition from early retirement to senior retirement.

Interestingly, in 2008-2010 I believe, as part of the stimulus, there was a $5000 one-time federal credit for getting a road ready golf cart, one that basically had to have lights and side-view mirrors, quite a useful credit for seniors at the time. It was a bit of an obscure and interesting tax credit, I found it while doing a retirement tax term paper in law school, in its way, it was better than the first-time home buyers tax credit, as it was much less restrictive.