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Old 07-19-2018, 09:05 AM   #21
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We have a family bank kids can take a loan from. If the lending is not a good idea, we can bury them with paper work.


But seriously, they are old enough to take care of themselves. When I go into deep thought about their future, I think back to my 20's and 30's, and the many mistakes I made. Moving to another area and living with friends sounds like a new start.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:27 AM   #22
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When we were in our mid twenties I did not like my career path. We had no debt and we had a little savings.

We sold our townhouse (little or no equity), car, most of our possessions. Went to Europe, bought a used VW van, and traveled. We returned and moved west. We had very little. Eventually started a new career path that was enjoyable, challenging, and lucrative. This changed our lives and was one of the best decisions that we ever made.

My son, in his early 30's has traveled the world. Including hitchhiking by himself through the 'stans'. Just quit his job as a senior high teacher to return to university for post graduate work. He will sell most of his possessions and move across the country.

I think that young adults are just as hard working and responsible as we were. Things have changed over the years and certainly the economy is different.

You cannot live your children's lives for them. You can make a decision not to bail them out if you feel that this is hurting them in the long term. We had to make such a decision with our daughter and SIL. Hard as it was, it was the right thing for us to do. Besides, we are not believers in throwing away good money after bad.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:30 AM   #23
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It's funny that you would write this on an Early Retirement forum.
x2. While I enjoy this forum, and have learned some useful info in my short time here, I'm amazed at the members who plan to retire REALLY early (by my standards), on what I'd consider not a very solid financial foundation. Yes, I understand that I must be overly conservative (financially) for this forum, since I continued to work to 64 out of fears that we didn't have enough to safely cover our planned spending, despite having much more set aside than many here intend to.

Don't get me wrong, I support the aggressive saving, minimalist spending, and overall sacrifices of short-term gratification for long-term freedom from career captivity, and in many ways wish I had been more forward-thinking when I was in my 20s and 30s. But I can't help seeing a not-so-subtle generational shift here, from my parents' generation (children of the Depression, locked into lifelong habits of hard work and financial conservatism), to my own (somewhat less conservative, but heavily influenced by our parents), to my kids' contemporaries (now in their 20s and 30s), many of whom are very focused on working the fewest years possible before entering retired life. Unfortunately, shifts in the costs and means for retirement (longer lifespans, disappearance of pensions, instability of Social Security, rising health insurance costs, etc.) argue for later, not earlier, retirement age.

Sorry to sound like the geezer I am, but I worry about the future of these millennials, or whatever they want to be called. I'm kind of glad I won't be around to see how this works out for them.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:18 AM   #24
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Not the norm for any of the young adults I know. In fact, just the opposite. I find them to be hard working people looking to take on greater responsibilities and make their way in the world.
Thats impressive and im glad there are youngins who have a good work ethic.

Im 35 so not exactly a spring chicken. I work with 3 late 20's guys. They are waaaaay smarter than I am or ever will be...yet their work ethic sucks. They'll wait till the last second to do something...or if they cant do something from their desk they wont do it. I run circles around them...me and these 2 other 50something guys...they also have a great work ethic.

Ever hear the expression "youth is wasted on the young." This hits the nail on the head when it comes to them. They spend almost all of their time playing video games. If they arent in front of a computer its rare.

I wont go into detail on everyone I know that isnt 30 yet...but the trend carries over to them.

But dont let that fool you...most of my friends around my age are bums too. They work...but they also spend every dime they have, are always stressed, cant pay bills, in toxic relationships...at least they no longer live with mom and dad.

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Perhaps you got a late start at yelling at kids to stay off your lawn today.
Brother...im 35. I am a millennial and I think a lot of my generation are bums.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:22 AM   #25
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But I can't help seeing a not-so-subtle generational shift here, from my parents' generation (children of the Depression, locked into lifelong habits of hard work and financial conservatism), to my own (somewhat less conservative, but heavily influenced by our parents), to my kids' contemporaries (now in their 20s and 30s), many of whom are very focused on working the fewest years possible before entering retired life.
Because 20s/30s live in an easy time. Which is why we keep seeing recreational aggression.

hard times make hard men.
hard men make easy times.
easy times make weak men.
weak men make hard times...rinse and repeat...we're now in the easy time which is making soft men (and women.)
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:23 AM   #26
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One advantage of telling them what you think of their move is that they will have the added incentive to prove you wrong!
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:33 AM   #27
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You cannot tell adult married children what they can and cannot do. (Did your parents run your life once you were married?)

But you can make it clear that you will not be in a position to help them out financially.

Sit down with them, explain your situation. Don't criticize their plans. Don't attack them personally. Don't call their choice a mistake, unless you are specifically asked for feedback. Just make it clear that the decision is theirs, but that your financial support simply isn't available.
+1
Actually my DF tried to run our lives after we were married. It worked about as well as you might expect. We ran 1200 miles away and basically cut off non-essential communications.

Our moving away was one of greatest things we ever did.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:41 AM   #28
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The Odd Quintet

Lemme make sure I understand. The kids are selling up and moving out of state? Doesn't that translate into NOT moving back in with Mom and Dad? How is this not a huge win?

My parents had five children all out of the house for several years. Halcyon days for M&D: they could come and go as they pleased, have candlelight dinners for two. Laundry was minimal, and the grocery budget could include a lot more lobster. They got out of the habit of closing doors.

Then, in 1988, both of my brothers and one sister showed up on the doorstep like Felix Unger at Oscar Madison's home. One brother left within three months, but the other brother and sister stayed for three years.

Long story short, the experience added some urgency to my folks' retirement plan of selling that house and moving 200 miles away.

Maybe OP just needs a little reassurance that it's okay to adjust his perspective. It sounds like he has done a good job of raising his child into an independent adult. Bravo!
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:50 AM   #29
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Not the norm but our niece's new 28 year old husband just a announced that despite his shiny new MBA he "isn't interested in working 9 to 5" and wants to just work weekends as a DJ at parties.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:52 AM   #30
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You make it sound like that's a bad thing!
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:54 AM   #31
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Not the norm but our niece's new 28 year old husband just a announced that despite his shiny new MBA he "isn't interested in working 9 to 5" and wants to just work weekends as a DJ at parties.


Paul Oakenfold and Deadmau5 made a go of it.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:57 AM   #32
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The cake is baked by the time they are in college. Your work is done.

You cannot live their lives.

I have every confidence that the millennials, and the generation that follows, will work as hard and be as successful as we are/were. They may do it in a different fashion, have different values but that is what change is all about.

I believe that it is important for them to learn from their own mistakes.....just as we did.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:02 AM   #33
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Not the norm but our niece's new 28 year old husband just a announced that despite his shiny new MBA he "isn't interested in working 9 to 5" and wants to just work weekends as a DJ at parties.
He's an out of the box thinker not wanting the 9 to 5 gig. Sounds like a keeper.


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Paul Oakenfold and Deadmau5 made a go of it.
Yep...and theres 1 oakenfold and 1 deadmau5. Ever hear the expression "there are more bands than fans." For every lynyrd skynyrd theres 1000 bands that didnt make it. And yes...I know they all died in a plane crash.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:10 AM   #34
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He's an out of the box thinker not wanting the 9 to 5 gig. Sounds like a keeper.
This would describe my soon to be nomadic DS. Fortunately for his wanderlust, he bought a gutted duplex in New Orleans' lower ninth ward post-Katrina, rehabbed it and is now selling it for more than ten times his initial investment.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:19 AM   #35
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Ever hear the expression "there are more bands than fans."

How many bands could a band’s fans fan if a band’s fans could fan bands?


Sorry, it’s slow at w*rk and I’m horribly bored.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:55 PM   #36
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He's an out of the box thinker not wanting the 9 to 5 gig. Sounds like a keeper.
.
His mindset is "My wife has a good job, why do I need one?"
Should have thought of that before taking on a big mortgage and all kinds of expensive toys.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:08 PM   #37
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Im 35 so not exactly a spring chicken. I work with 3 late 20's guys. They are waaaaay smarter than I am or ever will be...yet their work ethic sucks. They'll wait till the last second to do something...or if they cant do something from their desk they wont do it. I run circles around them...me and these 2 other 50something guys...they also have a great work ethic.
It's a pretty broad brush to paint all "late 20's" people as having poor work ethic based on your personal knowledge of just 2, don't you think?
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Ever hear the expression "youth is wasted on the young." This hits the nail on the head when it comes to them. They spend almost all of their time playing video games. If they arent in front of a computer its rare.
I think that saying is not about work ethic, it's about having wisdom to appreciate one's opportunities.
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I wont go into detail on everyone I know that isnt 30 yet...but the trend carries over to them.

But dont let that fool you...most of my friends around my age are bums too. They work...but they also spend every dime they have, are always stressed, cant pay bills, in toxic relationships...at least they no longer live with mom and dad.
Have you given any consideration to the possibility that you are spending time with the wrong people?
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:22 PM   #38
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I have a kid who took a severance package $$$ and hiked the Appalachian Trail, all of it. Then he moved to Seattle and lived on a sailboat. I was NOT thrilled about either endeavor, but he needed to get it out of his system. He's gainfully employed and in a pretty stable (for him) relationship. I'm very proud of the man he's become.


When it's all in the rearview mirror, it's much easier to swallow than when it's on the road in front of you.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:48 PM   #39
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+1 Good advice. Also +1 on the "don't let them store stuff in your garage". Don't ask why I know that Mom and Dad Storage Co. is a bad idea!

Does not have to be kids.... it can be a BIL also
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:07 PM   #40
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...both college grads with decent jobs, a house, and lots of debt. They informed us they plan on quitting their jobs, selling their house and moving out of sate and live with friends until they get settled
Have you been helping them out financially after they graduated (presently or recently?). You seem to know about their debt. If you have, they likely have the expectation that you will continue to do so, despite their lack of future effort. I would stop all support at once, and tell them they're on their own if they make such a (wreckless and IMHO irresponsible) decision. Apparently, adulting is hard. But we all knew that!
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