LBYM: do we have to do without then?

I don't feel deprived.

I buy extra stuff at the end of the month if there is money left.

I don't want to travel, go to movies, go out to eat.

As far as clothes, I have been slowly losing fat/weight since I retired; I have been resurrecting old clothes. Will need to buy some in the near future; first stop will be the thrift stores. I don decent clothing for venturing out.

Spend quite a bit on higher quality/local food.

Have lately gotten into keychain gadgets and credit card size gadgets; lots of low cost, neat stuff out there.

Do not want expensive home theater stuff; am looking into dropping cable and watching local TV on the laptop.
 
It's just about picking one's priorities, unless one has Bill Gate's income, which (sadly) we don't. Sure, at retirement, DW and I bought two new vehicles but that purchase had been planned five or six years beforehand. Others feel (strongly!) that depreciation makes buying a new vehicle a waste of resources that could be better spent on (insert your priority here________). Our priority was reliability and knowing what the maintenance histories are on what we drive, both having been burned on that in the past. But we'll keep them until either reliability, parts availability, or repair costs become an issue. One is a full-size pickup truck that on a good day gets 18 mpg, the other is a smallish sedan that gets just below 30. As one relative said about his choice of a Chrysler 300 "My money, my choice!" But we do not have a 50" plasma TV, home theater, or even a decent stereo system, choosing instead to spend that money on DW's BA degree (which she will have in 1 year! Yay!) and other activities.

We buy clothes on sale, but not in a thrift store (yet) because we were unimpressed by what we saw there. Neither would ever conceive of spending three figures on jeans. If it's something I'd buy anyway and I happen to find a coupon for it, I'll clip the coupon - forgetting to bring it more often than not - but I won't buy something just because there's a coupon in the paper.

Discussing finances with my FIL one time, I mentioned that we don't look at what we have in the bank, which is probably more than three times her sister's family even though they have three times our current income. We look at what is a sustainable level of spending, and everyone has their own "comfort zone" on that. He said that's why he worried less about us than any of the other three adult children he has.

That said, if I was single and didn't have DW's interests to think about, my will would read "Being of sound mind and body, I spent all my money while I was alive."
 
Orchidflower.. haven't had time to read all the posts but just wanted to respond quickly .. so I apologize if someone's already said this:

I think the emphasis here tends mildly towards "vow of poverty" just because the Wide World (much wider than this little forum) spends all its time and money to send the OPPOSITE message. So there's a bit of a backlash. Take it in stride and think of the "Young Dreamers" and others who may visit here and get a re-orientation. I see plenty of vacation pics and other consumption-related topics that display people's priorities here, often in terms of how they worked/saved hard to be able to pay for this or that toy IF they want it.

Just flashed on aaron's response and HE is on the right track, for example.
I think your using the word "subnormal" is going to, or already has, raised some hackles. In Haiti, eating dirt pancakes is now "normal". What we think of as the 'average' US lifestyle is not normal. And in fact, it may well not be 'normal' even for Americans at some point.

I also will not go for a cheap haircut or do without haircuts to save a few bucks .
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Moemg, I think it depends somewhat on the type of hair one has.. so I would hesitate to judge. I have had my hair cut probably 3 times in the last 20 years, most recently for my wedding in 2000. I've saved a ton of $, no one points and stares... well.. in Boston one stranger lady came up to me and said that my hair "looked like an angel's" (this was during a snowstorm.. it's not angelic-looking now!). Bizarrely, it just stays the same length (bottom of shoulderblades). I'm the first to admit no-one would judge it as particularly chic!!!
 
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Nords said:
The fact that you express this sentiment here makes me fear that you haven't been reading SimpleLiving.net. The thread on the broken glass in the peanut butter, in particular, is one example of crossing from straightforward frugality to short-sighted dangerous deprivation.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/showpost.php?p=317941&postcount=16
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Actually I have read SimpleLiving.net and other similar simple living websites in the past. But since I don't even rinse plastic baggies, I feel like there is no way I could ever embrace the other "wild" stuff suggested on some of these sites (like separating the plies of toilet paper to make it last longer...).
I have to confess that I don't hate our consumeristic society. I love my ipod, my large screen TV, my Wii, my computer and high speed internet. I like to spend several weeks in Europe every year. I even like to splurge on a nice watch some time to time. That does not make me a bad person, does it? After all that, I still save 35% of my income! Sure I could save a lot more, live on a lot less, and I could also retire a lot sooner, but quite frankly, given our income, anything less than our current lifestyle would start to feel like deprivation. Don't get me wrong, I understand some people happily embrace a minimalist lifestyle whether for religious, ecological or ideological reasons... Good for them. And maybe, down the road, and once I mature a bit more, I will too. But right now, it's just not for me. About 50% of our planned retirement budget is allocated for discretionary expenses and the other 50% for paying bills... We have already saved enough to take care of the latter, now we are saving for the former...
 
HFWR said:
$12.95 plus tip is about the cheapest I've seen around here. But if my forehead gets any larger, it won't matter much anyhow...
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My forehead extends all the way up and over the top, and half way down the back of my head. I got tired of paying 12-13 bucks for a haircut that took about 30 seconds with the clippers, so I splurged and bought a clipper for 15 or 16 bucks about 9 years ago. Once every 3-4 weeks DW runs it for about 30 seconds and shaves my neck. Takes all of 5 minutes to set up, do the cut, shave, and clean up.

Total saved: ($12 x 12 months) x 9 years = $1296 - 16 (capital cost) = $1,280 net savings. By the way, I don't have to walk or drive to the barber.

I wouldn't recommend this for everyone, not all of us are bald. But I would rather spend less on myself and have DW spend more on her haircut.

LBYM: It all relative. Going to the free turkey dinner for the homeless when you have a few million in the bank: nothing more than cheap, unscrupulous scoundrel.

R
 
Rambler said:
My forehead extends all the way up and over the top, and half way down the back of my head. I got tired of paying 12-13 bucks for a haircut that took about 30 seconds with the clippers, so I splurged and bought a clipper for 15 or 16 bucks about 9 years ago. Once every 3-4 weeks DW runs it for about 30 seconds and shaves my neck. Takes all of 5 minutes to set up, do the cut, shave, and clean up.

Total saved: ($12 x 12 months) x 9 years = $1296 - 16 (capital cost) = $1,280 net savings. By the way, I don't have to walk or drive to the barber.

I wouldn't recommend this for everyone, not all of us are bald. But I would rather spend less on myself and have DW spend more on her haircut.

LBYM: It all relative. Going to the free turkey dinner for the homeless when you have a few million in the bank: nothing more than cheap, unscrupulous scoundrel.

R
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There is a large free Thanksgiving dinner in Dayton, Ohio; the ads emphasize that it is open to anyone, regardless of income.
 
ladelfina said:
Moemg, I think it depends somewhat on the type of hair one has.. so I would hesitate to judge. I have had my hair cut probably 3 times in the last 20 years, most recently for my wedding in 2000. I've saved a ton of $, no one points and stares... well.. in Boston one stranger lady came up to me and said that my hair "looked like an angel's" (this was during a snowstorm.. it's not angelic-looking now!). Bizarrely, it just stays the same length (bottom of shoulderblades). I'm the first to admit no-one would judge it as particularly chic!!!
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You are right . Some people have the ability to cut and color their own hair . I tried coloring my hair once and I looked like Lucille Ball and had to wear a hat until it grew out . That was it for me.
 
Yes, the free turkey dinner is open to all, but how much of a cheap mooch do you have to be when you have tons of money and the meal is really for the poor, homeless and downtrodden? And there has been more than one on this board that would brag about going to something like that.
I cut my own bangs, always colored my own hair, wash out the Ziploc baggies, love junking for thrift stuff, search out good deals always when I purchase something on the bigger side and all the other cost cutting ways many here use. I live well, but am cheap as the next guy. BUT expect others to pay my way or go to a meal given free to the homeless...puh-leeeease, no way!
My protest is those who do live in a subnormal standard for Americans, and seem to think that this makes them superior to the rest of us. It doesn't. But they are Oh! so proud of the fact that they deprive themselves as if it is a badge of their superiority over the rest of their fellow Americans. Their incessant bragging about how much they can live without...whoop-tee doo!
You know who is thrilled you are doing without and living a minimal existence normally? Well, look behind you and you will see your heirs jumping up and down with joy for this. So, while you do without... I think you are getting the picture?
And, ladelfina, if you are personally offended by the use of the word subnormal, well...guess you are just offended.

**This conversation just reminded me of an old Eddie Murphy album (when he was still funny). He has a bit from his stepfather about being so thrifty they ate the Tonka toys. This reminds me of that bit.
 
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I guess I look at this from a completely different angle. LBYM, or at least L_Within_YM is not deprivation - it is empowerment, and let's you enjoy MORE 'stuff'!

If you Live Above Your Means, by definition you are borrowing money to buy the stuff you want today. And you are probably borrowing at pretty high rates. So, overall you can actually afford less 'stuff', because you pay a premium for all that 'stuff'.

Heck, I'm greedy. So therefore, I follow LBYM, so I can afford as much stuff as possible.

It's just long term vs short term thinking, or maybe L_A(bove)_YM people are *hoping* that their income will be much higher in the future, or they will win the lottery, so they 'mortgage' the future for present enjoyment. I'm not going to count on that, I'll adjust spending as it becomes available, not before.

-ERD50
 
newguy888 said:
28YO car? What is your ride?? How many clicks on that odometer?O0

By the way I thought I was the only one who thought that way about the TV!!!

No big screen for me, not that interested. I like going to see a movie at the movies.
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I have a 1980 Toyota Corolla (5 speed, station wagon). It was purchased used in 1985. It has 255K on it. Great car. I haven't taken it to the mechanic in about 2 years (when it passed it's last smog test, although barely). It still gets about 35 mpg on the highway, and has the power to pass other vehicles on long up hill grades. I'd buy the same car again if given the chance.

I like watching TV but see no need to get something "bigger and better." I purchased the 9'' 16 years ago because it made me feel more mobile. At that time, I could fit all of my belongings other than my books and couch into my car. Can't do that any more.
 
Orchidflower said:
Yes, the free turkey dinner is open to all, but how much of a cheap mooch do you have to be when you have tons of money and the meal is really for the poor, homeless and downtrodden? And there has been more than one on this board that would brag about going to something like that.
I cut my own bangs, always colored my own hair, wash out the Ziploc baggies, love junking for thrift stuff, search out good deals always when I purchase something on the bigger side and all the other cost cutting ways many here use. I live well, but am cheap as the next guy. BUT expect others to pay my way or go to a meal given free to the homeless...puh-leeeease, no way!
My protest is those who do live in a subnormal standard for Americans, and seem to think that this makes them superior to the rest of us. It doesn't. But they are Oh! so proud of the fact that they deprive themselves as if it is a badge of their superiority over the rest of their fellow Americans. Their incessant bragging about how much they can live without...whoop-tee doo!
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I don't have a clothes dryer.

You know who is thrilled you are doing without and living a minimal existence normally? Well, look behind you and you will see your heirs jumping up and down with joy for this. So, while you do without... I think you are getting the picture?
And, ladelfina, if you are personally offended by the use of the word subnormal, well...guess you are just offended.
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I'm leaving everything to charity.
 
ERD50 said:
It's just long term vs short term thinking, or maybe L_A(bove)_YM people are *hoping* that their income will be much higher in the future, or they will win the lottery, so they 'mortgage' the future for present enjoyment. I'm not going to count on that, I'll adjust spending as it becomes available, not before.
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There is the disease of affluenza (Affluenza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) -- the idea that spending money on non-essential items brings happiness even if you can afford these items without having to go into debt. I used to be this way until I acquired financial literacy and figured out that by saving and investing my money, someday I would have more money than I would know what to do with.

On the other hand, some people have to borrow money to pay for essentials (e.g., heat their homes, One-in-Five-Expect-to-Borrow-to-Heat-Homes-This-Winter: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance). They are living beyond their present means and don't have much choice in the matter (at least in the short term), and their situation is not sustainable over the long term. But they are trying to cope the best they can for now.

I believe in the idea of buying only what I need right now and investing the rest of my income for FIRE and delayed gratification. Luckily, my income has been much higher than my present needs so that I have had plenty to invest. But there have been times in the past when the opposite was true and I had to go into debt (or tap into my savings and investments) for awhile to make ends meet.
 
Balance in key with anything in life. I for one, will not splurge on clothes....I do dress with the finest, most expensive clothes that "look" "ALMOST" "new".....bought at the Goodwill, or other thrift shop. Now, on the other hand, I have no problem going to one of the most expensive restraurants in town and blowing a couple of hundred dollars on a dinner for two. My mother on the other hand, would never ever everrrrrrr go and spend money at a restaurant despite having a portfolio in the range of 5 million.....some people "just can't do it".
 
Nanita8140 said:
Balance in key with anything in life. I for one, will not splurge on clothes....I do dress with the finest, most expensive clothes that "look" "ALMOST" "new".....bought at the Goodwill, or other thrift shop. Now, on the other hand, I have no problem going to one of the most expensive restraurants in town and blowing a couple of hundred dollars on a dinner for two. My mother on the other hand, would never ever everrrrrrr go and spend money at a restaurant despite having a portfolio in the range of 5 million.....some people "just can't do it".
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If you are a foodie. Then someday try and get to Victoria and Alberts at Walt Disney World. Place has amazing food and service.
 
Nanita8140 said:
Balance in key with anything in life. I for one, will not splurge on clothes....I do dress with the finest, most expensive clothes that "look" "ALMOST" "new".....bought at the Goodwill, or other thrift shop. Now, on the other hand, I have no problem going to one of the most expensive restraurants in town and blowing a couple of hundred dollars on a dinner for two. My mother on the other hand, would never ever everrrrrrr go and spend money at a restaurant despite having a portfolio in the range of 5 million.....some people "just can't do it".
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To go to a restaurant, I would have to comb my hair and put on shoes and dress up and wonder if people would stare at me for dining alone and worry about every move I make...
 
Khan, I've eaten out alone at nice restaurants plenty and, frankly, nobody really gives a crap about anything else but what is going on at their own table. Bring a book, bury your head in it till the food comes will get your over the hump in the beginning.
Enjoy yourself by yourself if you have nobody else to dine with I say. Heck, if I waited until I had a friend or partner to do things with...well, I still would not have done much of anything. So learn to do all by yourself if you have to.
And this post was not about having an older car that runs well or if you do or do not have a clothes dryer. It's about doing without to such a degree--when you have a great deal of money--that you "think" you are superior for your self-sacrifice. You aren't special. You just love money TOO much where it's become a sickness.

Money is not the root of all evil. It's the LOVE of money that is.
 
Want2retire said:
masochistic self-deprivation.
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Gosh, this is one of my favorites! Hardly anything beats watching folks participate in masochistic self-deprivation! ;) If they ever catch on to how much fun it is to watch, they're going to start charging admission.
 
rogersteciak said:
I have no idea what I'm missing, although I understand from what's on TV that I'm not missing very much. But based on all the saved money I'm able to invest, I'll probably be able to afford all of these goodies someday without any strain on my budget.
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Those items will be exactly the waste in the future as they are now, no more, no less. You don't have them now, you don't need to have them in the future.

A gratification delayed is a gratification easily done without for eternity.
 
youbet said:
A gratification delayed is a gratification easily done without for eternity.
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God, don't say that. At least please tell me it does not apply to dry spells.

Ha
 
I don't go out to restaurants by myself either. It is just boring without someone there to talk to, and a book seem almost like an attempt to camoflauge - - because for me it is difficult to get really absorbed in a book sitting in a restaurant.

Luckily, Frank takes me out to eat several times a week. If I went out to eat any more than that, I would probably gain too much weight. Before I met him, if I just HAD to eat out I would get take out, and eat it at home.
 
ladelfina said:
It's going to be all the rage! Consumers cut back on small pleasures - USATODAY.com
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Interesting article. I gagged when I read this:

Between Sara Winters and her husband, David, of Columbus, Ohio, they bought lunch out about eight times a week, often at McDonald's. She usually got a fish sandwich and a small soft drink. He typically got two fish sandwiches and a large soft drink. It added up to more than $170 a month.

When the school year began, Winters started packing lunches for herself and her husband, as well as her 15-year-old son.

"We're not panicking. We're more aware of what we spend our money on," she says. "We miss McDonald's fries, but you have to think about your future."
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The financial savings should be the least of her reasons for cutting back. Hasn't she seen or heard of Super Size Me?
 
youbet said:
Gosh, this is one of my favorites! Hardly anything beats watching folks participate in masochistic self-deprivation! ;) If they ever catch on to how much fun it is to watch, they're going to start charging admission.
Click to expand...
I was WONDERING if anybody would ever pick up on that post, clear back on page 2! :2funny: Flog me with a wet noodle, but don't make me engage in masochistic self-deprivation! :eek::D
 
Now me, I have no problem reading anywhere. I'd probably just tune it all out around me and read. Different strokes.
But, haha...what are YOU talking about (hee hee hee)? A dry spell over what? (OK, I am putting you on here>:D)
 
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