Money …root of all evil!

[aja8888]

We got married in 1996, both our second. She moved into my house which I bought and paid off over the years. In 20 of the 25 years, she worked and contributed to the household expenses and made it our home.

When we sold it 5 years ago to buy a smaller, one level home, the money from the sold home, which I basically contributed over the 20 years (the mortgage), went to buy the replacement, which cost about the same.

When we titled the replacement home, I had it put into both our names in Joint Tenants. She gets the house if I pass first and I get it if she goes first.

She's my wife and we made it a partnership all the way.

 

[Scuba]

We don’t have kids so our situation doesn’t apply, but I agree with other posters that it seems like a good time to hire a good CPA or estate attorney to advise you, and help you agree on an equitable way to own and finance the new home. The proposed way doesn’t seem fair to me.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

My two cents is that ideally, the OP should be entitled to the equity in her house at time of marriage and the appreciation should be split equally.
However, it should go the other way too with the spouse being entitled to the equity in his (now sold) home at time of marriage with the past rental income and appreciation also split (or subtracted from his share of the split in the current house).

 

[Sunset]

OP - His sweat equity is balanced by his rent free living in your house.
Your house sale is your money , just as his was his in the past.

Both should put in 50/50 towards the new house, and both sign on the mortgage if needed.

Continue to keep finances separate, we do and it has nothing to do with "love" , it's a legal finance thing people who have gone through divorce sometimes need/want or even deserve.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I am so happy to have had a simple life.

Threads such as these remind me why I never married.

I own the entire bottle of scotch, and can share it with whomever I choose. (Although my beverage would be green tea, not scotch).

While compensating him for his efforts in improving your house is a good idea, I have doubts you will both agree on a number. I hope you can.

Overall, maybe it's just time to put aside what's mine and what's yours. You have been married so long, are you sure you want to go to war about this, if that is what it comes to? If your marriage is happy otherwise, this war could lead to you know where.

I hope you can find a way to not go to war.

 

[NgineER]

My husband and I were both married before and are about to celebrate our 25th anniversary. Since we each have 2 children from previous marriages we have kept our investments separate.

When we married he moved into my house, which I paid off shortly thereafter. He rented his home for a few years and sold it 10 years ago. Over the years he has made considerable improvements to my home as he is very handy. We are now selling it and moving into a home we both love. We plan to share equally in the cost of the new home. He feels that all the proceeds of my home should go toward the purchase of the new home and that we should take a mortgage out for the remainder and split the payments in 1/2. Since I paid for the home myself I feel I should receive all the proceeds and invest them as he did when he sold his house. He feels this does not reimburse him for his ‘sweat equity’. I don’t want to be unreasonable. Does anyone have an idea how to fairly handle this type of situation? I hate even asking this question as I truly believe money is the root of all evil. [emoji49]

Prime an impartial attorney or accountant and hear their view of it. You two discussing it will only lead to hurt feelings. Hiring someone impartial to survey the situation would be well worth it IMO. Maybe it is even someone who specializes in divorces who might have experience in how things should be divided up who would have the right insights into what is fair.

Leave out the new house purchase and focus on his and her house, rent, improvements and equity. When that is settled you can move forward.

 

[Teacher Terry]

What your husband wants is very unfair. You have received many fair suggestions. Good luck!

 

[Sunset]

Frankly, I'm suspicious of the husband of OP, I'm thinking that he has in some manner squandered a good portion of his money and doesn't want to admit it.

In this market, for the past 10 years it would be pretty hard to not have had quite an increase in savings.. unless really dumb things were done.

I always remember an old story I read decades ago in the local paper of a husband with a gambling habit, who gambled away all the savings of a couple, which is why he resisted retiring as then it would be revealed.

 

[Koolau]

DW Got All the Marbles

Mentioned here several times, DW and I have known each other since 1st grade. We were friends for many years before we dated. Back in about 4th to 6th grades, she and I occasionally played marbles on the playground during recess. DW was fascinated by the beauty of marbles. I was into "winning" at the game. She wanted to play for "fun" and I wanted to play for "keeps." Needless to say, I typically won.

We often joked in later years that she ended up with "all the marbles" when we married. The marbles are all still in a large "Charles Chips" can in my old bedroom here at the homestead. I wish every couple could look at their finances in this fashion. Supposedly, money is more argued about in marriage than any other issue. I think that's unfortunate but I do understand how it can happen as YMMV.

 

[Winemaker]

I could never understand the concept of "his or her money". I have married tenants that do this, and my B &S in laws, also. My wife had a "practice husband" herself, but when we got married in 1983, we became Mr. & Mrs. Winemaker Corporation. Everything we do, is for the best of each other, and we share the outcomes.

 

[teetee]

The love of money is the root of all evil, not the money itself.

You have marriage problem in terms that you don't combine your finances so when it comes to money related topics, each of you put yourself first, instead you two together.

You are just torturing yourselves and that will break your marriage apart really fast. You don't even realize marriage is not about who can get even.

 

[VanWinkle]

I am currently living with a great woman after losing DW over 2 years ago. We both have substantial assets and have been talking about how to handle that in a new marriage. I am not sure it will be easy, but it should be simple. Prior to marriage assets are separate, In marriage assets should be lumped together as a couple and spent together without looking at % of accounts. Good luck on your decision on how to handle this Dot57.

Best to you,

VW

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Prior to marriage assets are separate, In marriage assets should be lumped together as a couple and spent together without looking at % of accounts. Good luck on your decision on how to handle this Dot57.

Best to you,

VW

+10

Marriage is supposed to be a union. Seems overly complicated to have his and hers..... unless one is not intending the union to last. (Different discussion).

Besides, having a mortgage so as to keep one's "own" stash seems selfish to me and DW. MMDV

 

[Souschef]

I think every situation is as different as the two people. As far as wills go, IMO if the assets are in TOD accounts, it eliminates probate and challenges to the will.
I recognize the contributions to our marriage by DW, so our home is in Joint tenancy, regardless of how much each of us put into it.
YMMV

 

[ivinsfan]

+10

Marriage is supposed to be a union. Seems overly complicated to have his and hers..... unless one is not intending the union to last. (Different discussion).

Besides, having a mortgage so as to keep one's "own" stash seems selfish to me and DW. MMDV

I don't agree especially for a second marriage when both parties have kids. Problems arise when a couple can't agree on the ground rules.


There are always two sides to a story...


Married couples who share finances have plenty of fights over money too.

 

[Time2]

His sweat, i.e. improvement to the home, was in lieu of living in your home for free, while he collected rent on his other home and then re-invested his money when his home was sold. When you sell your home, the money is yours. If he cannot see it that way that you should each pay 50-50 for the new home, I don't see him as a life partner. He is making money the root of all evil.

Also, I feel his sweat equity only has half the value he thinks. He was fixing the house he had the advantage of living in. So, maybe split that in half.
It could get hairy, He collected rent and pocketed it on his house, shouldn't you collect rent on you house for the last 25 years.
I wouldn't push it that far, but I think you are in the right on this and should not back down.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I don't agree especially for a second marriage when both parties have kids. Problems arise when a couple can't agree on the ground rules.


There are always two sides to a story...


Married couples who share finances have plenty of fights over money too.

Not in our case. I cannot ever remember arguing about money in 30+ years. Second marriage for us too. MMDV

 

[ivinsfan]

Not in our case. I cannot ever remember arguing about money in 30+ years. Second marriage for us too. MMDV

Right some couples do and some don't..marriage isn't the deciding factor

 

[RetiredHappy]

I don't agree especially for a second marriage when both parties have kids. Problems arise when a couple can't agree on the ground rules.


There are always two sides to a story...


Married couples who share finances have plenty of fights over money too.

+1

I want my son to get most of what I have if I pass before my husband. My husband gets my half of the house and half of my IRA annuities. It is a different story if he is our son but he is not. I need to ensure that my son is provided for. My husband does not have offspring and I inherit his half if he passes before me. We both came into the marriage with significant wealth, mine more than his. But I have spent alot on my son through the years that we are now about even.

 

[HarveyS]

Prime an impartial attorney or accountant and hear their view of it. You two discussing it will only lead to hurt feelings. Hiring someone impartial to survey the situation would be well worth it IMO. Maybe it is even someone who specializes in divorces who might have experience in how things should be divided up who would have the right insights into what is fair.

Leave out the new house purchase and focus on his and her house, rent, improvements and equity. When that is settled you can move forward.

I really like this idea, with one exception. Don't prime the 3rd party / attorney by yourself. Agree to sit with a 3rd party, search and select one together, meet together and discuss. By priming someone you are, knowingly or not, shaping their point of view towards yours.

 

[Koolau]

Not in our case. I cannot ever remember arguing about money in 30+ years. Second marriage for us too. MMDV

Our very few disagreements over money have all been very small. DW is even more frugal than I. I'll ask here at the store "Do we have any peanut butter? I finished the jar on the counter." She'll say "Yes, we've got lots of PB." We get home and there's no PB. I get (slightly) upset with her. OR, I DON'T ask if we have PB and buy a couple of jars only to find out we have 5 jars already at home. DW gets (slightly - well, maybe a little more than slightly) upset with me. Stuff like that. YMMV

 

[Markola]

You should have all the equity value of the house at the time you married. Then figure out the value of the improvements he made and that's his share. The rest is joint.

A twist on this would be:
1) Figure out the OP’s home equity at marriage. Upon the sale, she keeps that amount to do with as she likes, including investing it.

2) Split the balance evenly to do with what each wants. Get mortgage for all of the house. Lord knows, this intelligent forum is evenly split on whether low interest mortgages are good or bad, so it comes down to personal preference. Or,

3) Roll this whole second chunk of equity fully into the new home. It seems impossible to sort out his sweat equity, plus he seems to have benefited financially for a time while he rented out his place. All that is impossible to tease out. Then get a mortgage for any remaining balance and make equal payments.

Good luck!

 

[CRLLS]

Dot57 (OP) has not been back here since her original post. Thinking about it a bit more, I might suggest that the "improvements" he made to her home were for them both while living there for 25 years, not made to fix up the house for sale. Dot57 did say he spent sweat equity on the home. She did not say from whose account the material for those improvements was purchased from. I would say that unless those efforts were to add sq ft to the home or the like, or specifically done to sell the home, the value of his contributory efforts has been used up by them both while living in the home for that 25 years.

Unless some other info is presented, the proceeds from her home is hers, and hers alone; just like the 10 years' rent and sale on his previous home was his along with any interest/gains he earned on those dollars over the last 15 years.

 

[Jerry1]

I think it’s time to value your estate and combine your assets. The two of you should agree on how much each child gets and lock that number in. The rest should be what you both agree is your marital estate and that can be split however you wish, presumably equally to each surviving child. For course there will be conditions like the assumption that the money wasn’t used up, for long term care, for example. There will also be conditions about the home and accounts going to the surviving spouse and how to handle that until the final passing of both spouses.

As has been mentioned, it’s time to sit down with a third party (lawyer) to get this all settled and written up (a will).

 

[CardsFan]

Our very few disagreements over money have all been very small. DW is even more frugal than I. I'll ask here at the store "Do we have any peanut butter? I finished the jar on the counter." She'll say "Yes, we've got lots of PB." We get home and there's no PB. I get (slightly) upset with her. OR, I DON'T ask if we have PB and buy a couple of jars only to find out we have 5 jars already at home. DW gets (slightly - well, maybe a little more than slightly) upset with me. Stuff like that. YMMV

In my case, my mileage is practically identical to yours

I have a hard time getting DW to buy anything if it is not on sale, even small items like PB. Old habits die hard.