Money …root of all evil!

[VanWinkle]

I don't agree especially for a second marriage when both parties have kids. Problems arise when a couple can't agree on the ground rules.


There are always two sides to a story...


Married couples who share finances have plenty of fights over money too.

I think money before marriage(2nd marriage) should be discussed and protected for the children involved if that is the decision. Income after marriage should be lumped together and spent for the common good of the couple. I may not have made that clear in my prior post. Couples don't have money problems, individuals have problems based on their views of money and marriage.

I hope that clarified my prior post for you,

VW

 

[calmloki]

Different strokes. Know a number of couples who maintain separate accounts. Gal and I both had read "Stranger In A Strange Land" at a formative age, and the bowl of money by the door that members of the house dipped into as needed resonated with us both. She is and was much more the giving and communal sort than I, but I'd be ashamed to be any less free than she with money. Marriage has nothing to do with it. Our money is our money, we're in the traces with a common goal.

 

[Live Free]

Sweat equity could mean a lot of things. Did he finish off an entire basement with electric, plumbing, framing, flooring, adding a bathroom, etc. on his own dime and his own time? DH built a screened porch that cost nearly $25K in materials alone. That would make a difference in my answer. If he did general run-of-the-mill maintenance or small home improvement projects, I'm not sure he should share in the equity.

Perhaps the best solution is to give him a small portion of the equity based on how much "sweat equity" he put into the place. 10%. To avoid any future issues you both should put in equal equity into the downpayment and split the mortgage 50/50.

We have joint accounts and share and split everything 50/50 in our marriage. But I do understand that when children from previous marriages are involved (child support, college tuition) it may make sense to keep separate finances. Also, probably a good idea to take a portion of the home sale proceeds to hire an attorney to lay out who gets what upon death of either or both of you including what your children and his children get when either of you die. And then share all of that with the kids so there is no confusion going forward.

 

[W2R]

Prior to marriage assets are separate, In marriage assets should be lumped together as a couple and spent together without looking at % of accounts.

This seems to be the custom. Frank and I regard marriage as primarily a financial arrangement. We decided that we both prefer to keep our assets separate, and live apart, so we have never married even though we have been entirely devoted to one another for 21 years. Most people think we are married, even though we're not, because we are obviously a couple.

 

[NgineER]

I really like this idea, with one exception. Don't prime the 3rd party / attorney by yourself. Agree to sit with a 3rd party, search and select one together, meet together and discuss. By priming someone you are, knowingly or not, shaping their point of view towards yours.

Oops-should have been Find, not Prime. Fixed it in my post.

 

[Car-Guy]

Not in our case. I cannot ever remember arguing about money in 30+ years.

+1 except it's been well over 40 years for "us".

 

[MC Rider]

The actual quote is: "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil." --1 Timothy 6:10

I always found Pink Floyd to more entertaining. Their quote is different.



Money, get back
I'm all right, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack.
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bull****
I'm in the high-fidelity first-class traveling set
And I think I need a Learjet.

 

[Markola]

Oops-should have been Find, not Prime. Fixed it in my post.

I kinda liked it and was looking forward to learning how to prime a lawyer.

 

[Music Lover]

Sweat equity could mean a lot of things. Did he finish off an entire basement with electric, plumbing, framing, flooring, adding a bathroom, etc. on his own dime and his own time? DH built a screened porch that cost nearly $25K in materials alone. That would make a difference in my answer. If he did general run-of-the-mill maintenance or small home improvement projects, I'm not sure he should share in the equity.

Agreed. My sweat equity in my house has probably saved me $100,000 in labour and that's not an exaggeration.

We also don't know how much the partner has contributed financially over the years. They kept the rent from their house but perhaps they also paid half of all the expenses and renovation costs in the OP's house.

 

[retire-early]

We also don't know how much the partner has contributed financially over the years. They kept the rent from their house but perhaps they also paid half of all the expenses and renovation costs in the OP's house.

Even if he contributed financially to her house, he kept all of the rent from his house while he was living for free in her house.
To me, that money should have been shared.

He seems to want compensation for what he did e.g. labor.
People who are talking about paying money for things don't talk about "sweat" equity.
And, if indeed he is talking about things he did, are things she did not of any value? Seems a rather sexist view of things.

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[Music Lover]

Even if he contributed financially to her house, he kept all of the rent from his house while he was living for free in her house.
To me, that money should have been shared.

He seems to want compensation for what he did e.g. labor.
People who are talking about paying money for things don't talk about "sweat" equity.
And, if indeed he is talking about things he did, are things she did not of any value? Seems a rather sexist view of things.

We don't know how much either of them did other than the sweat equity part. Assuming that she did all the "domestic" chores is a sexist view of things.

 

[rodi]

I don't have a perfect solution for you but can share what my dad did when he sold his home and moved in with my stepmom. They were not legally married, but were 'registered domestic partners'. This allowed their pensions/benefits from previous spouses to remain intact.

He didn't pay rent to her. But he paid for a lot of deferred maintenance she had (new roof, replaced some appliances, etc.) The sale of his home went into his investment accounts.

They also both redid their trusts: her estate goes to her kids - including the house. His estate went to his kids (including me). He had a lump sum go to her (several hundred thousand) to make sure she had enough money to stay in the home, maintain it, travel, whatever. Her trust required that he not be kicked out of the home for two years. Allowing him time to get another place. In other words - the bulk of the estates would go to the kids - but the spouse would be taken care of.

My dad has since passed. Stepmom has since moved to a senior community, selling her house. There is/was no ill well between her kids, or my sister and I. I like the way they handled it.

 

[rodi]

If I were to offer advice on the OPs situation - it would be that both parties bring equal shares to the downpayment. Period.

 

[pacergal]

My opinion, since you asked the forum:
Sell your home, keep all proceeds yourself.
Future: both bring 50% down payment, split living costs equally or whatever percentages you agree on.
Review wills to make sure disbursements to heirs is how you want them to be.

'How have you managed finances and running the household chores/budget during your 25 year marriage?
You seem to be miles apart in thought of yours, mine, ours.

Some couples put everything together in one pot (thats what we did), some divide equally, some divide based on percentage of income. I think it all depends on each couple.
Definitely warrants further discussion.

 

[marko]

I understand that you have kept your finances separate but at sometime after 25 years of marriage, wouldn't now be a great time to each put in a share of the cost for the new home and call it both yours.
To me it doesn't seem like a marriage, if you can't be partners and both own something together. To me it seems selfish to not think of one another, instead of who's kids get what and this is mine and this is yours.

Good luck and this is just my 2¢.

^ This ^

My wife and I were in your position 35 years ago. She had her house and I had mine. We sold both and bought one bigger home when I was transferred. My house was worth much more than hers, but after a few years it didn't matter.

You should have combined assets 20 years ago. Any split can be done in a will. Marriages don't need such matters to decide.

^ This ^

After 25 years of marriage - in a 2nd in which you both entered with some scars but hopefully wiser - I would hope that the concept of Yours vs. Mine vs. Ours would fade significantly. If not all at first, now is the time.

Maybe time to visit an accountant/lawyer to ensure all the children are appropriately covered in a will, and then move on, with joint accounts?

and...^This^

FWIW, DW came into our marriage with very little and I had a quite lot but we've been equal partners since day 1.

I do have some family business/trust/financial items that I must keep separate out of legal necessity--it's not my money--and she understands that; but if I do pass first she gets 100%.

 

[Dtail]

We are not married but effectively share everything equally, even though I had more assets coming into the relationship.

 

[teetee]

Boy you guys did a good job making a marriage look like a business transaction. I thought that is what the divorce is.

 

[Sunset]

......

Some couples put everything together in one pot (thats what we did), some divide equally, some divide based on percentage of income. I think it all depends on each couple.
Definitely warrants further discussion.

Our money is separate.
And we randomly divide things, we don't even count or keep track of who paid.

Most important I think is open honest truthful discussion so that trust is never a question or concern.

 

[ponyboy]

Another thread where OP just vanished and is never heard from again. Nice!

 

[ivinsfan]

In an earlier post the OP says they are retired but the husband brings 150k in annual income to the household from his owned rental properties.



This number is twice their annual expenses. Does this info change anyone's opinion?

 

[Dot57]

This forum is amazing and I appreciate the various opinions. It is very helpful when sorting through tough issues like the one I’m dealing with. I am relatively new to this forum so am not clear why anyone feels the need to pass judgement about how we live our lives. I am simply looking for a fair way to handle a complicated financial matter. I am grateful that my DH and I never argue amount expenses and on a daily basis have no issues with money. All of the complications with money center around our estates since we each were married before and have adult children and grandchildren. Without writing a book here we have a larger issue that involves a business we are equal partners in. The take away I’ve received from this thread is that the best way to sort through this would be with an estate attorney. Thank you again for all your ideas!

 

[ivinsfan]

I agree some posters are convinced there is one right way to do things.


All that matters is that the two of you agree on your way.

Estate attorney is a good place to start.

 

[Ready]

Another thread where OP just vanished and is never heard from again. Nice!

It’s pretty amazing that a single post with no follow up has generated four pages of conversation!

 

[Koolau]

It’s pretty amazing that a single post with no follow up has generated four pages of conversation!

Amazing? Perhaps. Unusual? No. I guess it's our way but YMMV.

 

[MichaelB]

It’s pretty amazing that a single post with no follow up has generated four pages of conversation!

Amazing? Perhaps. Unusual? No. I guess it's our way but YMMV.

Look harder and you’ll see the follow on post by the OP. It’s here https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/money-root-of-all-evil-110570-2.html#post2652687