Poor TV sound

[finnski1]

Probably this wouldn't work for most people ( I have a very understanding wife) but I find that my Magneplanars work quite well with my TV and running the sound thru the Emotiva preamp and monoblocks results in very satisfactory sound in just simple 2 channel sound with a subwoofer hiding behind one of the Maggies

Nice. I have never listened to or experienced planar speakers. I probably should accomplish that soon.

 

[ejman]

Nice. I have never listened to or experienced planar speakers. I probably should accomplish that soon.

It is a different experience from most regular box speakers. When properly set up the Magneplanars present a 3D "wall of sound" that can be quite impressive with the right sources but the set up process can be difficult depending on the room. The picture is actually a wide angle shot and the Magneplanars are 3 ft from the wall behind them which is about the minimum distance required for proper sound. They are dipoles so they produce as much sound behind as they do in front.

 

[eytonxav]

And "many people" don't know what they are talking about. It's probably not bad advice, but it isn't really necessary either.

Do you mean same manufacturer ( a matched set of L/R/C?), or same exact speaker? That would be tough, speakers generally have a dispersion pattern with a specific horizontal or vertical pattern, and are meant to be set in a specific orientation. And normally, the center speaker is set horizontally, and the L/R vertically - that would mess with the dispersion. And generally, the center speaker is for vocals, it doesn't even need the same response as L/R, so an optimal design would probably be different for each anyhow..

My calibration routine will adjust to optimize each speaker, so differences are compensated for.

-ERD50

I think the idea of needing to match the center speaker with the left and right speakers is overrated. Most AVR's will use their room correction software routine to optimize the sound so it isn't critical to have the same brand/model line for the center speaker.

On a visual level, yes, it is nice to have three matching speakers.

As to dispersion patterns, when I bought my Chane A2.4 I told them I would be using it as a center speaker mounted horizontally and they installed the tweeter properly oriented for a horizontal speaker.

I was referring to the exact same speaker, and yes I realize Auydessey and the like can compensate within a specific room and speaker setup. You two might enjoy some of the commentary in this post that I started on AVS Forum looking for speaker advice. There are some very strong opinions, many of which come from very knowledgeable people IMHO.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/need-speaker-advise-for-a-man-cave-ht.3258756/

 

[explanade]

Bedroom TV isn't connected to any other speakers. So the volume output is poor and it varies by source.

I would get a sound bar but it's on a bracket that was installed when they delivered the TV so I'd have to pay quite a bit for them to take it off the bracket and install the sound bar with holders.

There's a brand called ZVOX which specialized on enhancing dialog. Their target market appears to be seniors.

I'd rather go for a more general sound bar for the bedroom.

As for CC, I have it on most of the time. Not because of hearing but you get accents and even American speakers who mumble a lot.

 

[finnski1]

It is a different experience from most regular box speakers. When properly set up the Magneplanars present a 3D "wall of sound" that can be quite impressive with the right sources but the set up process can be difficult depending on the room. The picture is actually a wide angle shot and the Magneplanars are 3 ft from the wall behind them which is about the minimum distance required for proper sound. They are dipoles so they produce as much sound behind as they do in front.

Yeah that takes an understanding wife. Also most I've seen are pretty large themselves.

 

[eytonxav]

Probably this wouldn't work for most people ( I have a very understanding wife) but I find that my Magneplanars work quite well with my TV and running the sound thru the Emotiva preamp and monoblocks results in very satisfactory sound in just simple 2 channel sound with a subwoofer hiding behind one of the Maggies

I had a friend back in the early 80s that had a pair of Magneplanars. They were awesome as I recall. That electrostatic design is totally different than most conventional speakers.

 

[ejman]

I had a friend back in the early 80s that had a pair of Magneplanars. They were awesome as I recall. That electrostatic design is totally different than most conventional speakers.

Actually Magneplanars are not electrostatic speakers (Quad, Martin-Logan and some other brands are true electrostatics). Magneplanars are planar magnetic speakers. An extremely thin Mylar sheet is overlayed with conducting foil and placed next to a series of thin flat magnets. The audio signal generates an electromagnetic field that interacts with the magnets and moves the Mylar sheet to produce sound. Its actually the same principle as a regular cone speaker just laid flat!

 

[ERD50]

Actually Magneplanars are not electrostatic speakers (Quad, Martin-Logan and some other brands are true electrostatics). Magneplanars are planar magnetic speakers. An extremely thin Mylar sheet is overlayed with conducting foil and placed next to a series of thin flat magnets. The audio signal generates an electromagnetic field that interacts with the magnets and moves the Mylar sheet to produce sound. Its actually the same principle as a regular cone speaker just laid flat!

Yes, same principle, the difference being is that the entire surface of the speaker moves, not just the cones.

I've had a set of Maggies (1.6) for ~ 22 years. About $1500 a pair at the time, so really not a lot for that level of quality. Very 'transparent', natural sound. The 1.7's are the current replacement. They are 19" x 65" , and almost all of that surface is moving air, so it only needs to move a little distance, which can result in better linearity (the coils stay within a consistent magnetic field) . They are fairly lightweight, and only 2" deep, very easy to move one around, large but not a lot of volume (no 'box').

If you figure the actual moving area is ~ 17" x 55", that's 935 sq inches of surface. A 12" cone is only 113 sq inches. And a 6" mid-range is only 28 sq inches. Those cones need to travel a lot, which gets physically restrained by the surround and spider, and pushes the voice coil outside the magnetic field - result is non-linearities (distortions).

https://magnepan.com/collections/floor-standing/products/magnepan-1-7i?variant=42607645786348

Unfortunately, one of mine has de-laminated, so I'm looking at sending them in for re-build, or maybe just buy new ones.

-ERD50

 

[ejman]

Yes, same principle, the difference being is that the entire surface of the speaker moves, not just the cones.

I've had a set of Maggies (1.6) for ~ 22 years. About $1500 a pair at the time, so really not a lot for that level of quality. Very 'transparent', natural sound. The 1.7's are the current replacement. They are 19" x 65" , and almost all of that surface is moving air, so it only needs to move a little distance, which can result in better linearity (the coils stay within a consistent magnetic field) . They are fairly lightweight, and only 2" deep, very easy to move one around, large but not a lot of volume (no 'box').

If you figure the actual moving area is ~ 17" x 55", that's 935 sq inches of surface. A 12" cone is only 113 sq inches. And a 6" mid-range is only 28 sq inches. Those cones need to travel a lot, which gets physically restrained by the surround and spider, and pushes the voice coil outside the magnetic field - result is non-linearities (distortions).

https://magnepan.com/collections/floor-standing/products/magnepan-1-7i?variant=42607645786348

Unfortunately, one of mine has de-laminated, so I'm looking at sending them in for re-build, or maybe just buy new ones.

-ERD50

The Maggies in the picture are MGI Imp that I bought in 1980. Great speakers. I did repair a delamination issue about 20 years ago. Not hard to do just tedious mostly to get all the staples out . Magneplanar sells an inexpensive kit to do the rewire/repair as needed. I have a set of the 1.7's in my main music room - no TV there.

 

[Qs Laptop]

IYou two might enjoy some of the commentary in this post that I started on AVS Forum looking for speaker advice. There are some very strong opinions, many of which come from very knowledgeable people IMHO.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/need-speaker-advise-for-a-man-cave-ht.3258756/

It's been awhile since I read the Speaker subforum on AVS but I see that the flame wars between Craig John and Zorba922 are still in progress.

Broadly speaking, Craig John takes a view that the best way to judge speakers is through measurement and calculation techniques; Zorba922 accepts measurements as valid but says to trust one's ears. I lean toward Zorba's viewpoint.

For example, in my speaker search I was looking for a particular low-end frequency response curve, a minimum sensitivity value, an average impedance of 6 ohms, and a couple other traits I don't recall. Using spec sheets winnowed down my candidates. Then came physical size and speaker composition. After that it was all up to the ears.

I would guess the possibility of someone, anyone,in a blindfold hearing test being able to tell if the center speaker was matched with the L/R speakers is zero.

 

[isisdave]

Captions are very useful for learning a foreign language. What worked very well for me was having the captions on in the foreign language. If I missed a spoken bit it would help clarify, so it really trained my ear. If it was a new word, I’d learn it.

This doesn’t work for beginners, but once you are past the initial stages it can really help.

Really true. When we visited Finland, everyone under 40 spoke flawless English with an American accent. They said it was because they don't dub non-Finnish television and movies, they just subtitle them in Finnish.

 

[eytonxav]

I would guess the possibility of someone, anyone,in a blindfold hearing test being able to tell if the center speaker was matched with the L/R speakers is zero.

Certainly in my case I would have no clue. I do not have the desire to audition multiple speakers in my home before deciding what to keep, and it is not easy to find some of these locally to listen to in a store environment or another users home. That leaves me to look at specs and reviews that I can find online. From what I gather, Ascend Acoustics is about as transparent as a company can be in terms of providing good specs and not overstated ones, so I will probably opt for their new CMT340SE2. As I understand it, what they sell as a center channel happens to be the same speaker as the LR pair, only the labeling is reoriented for a horizontal placement. I have a credenza with a center channel shelf so that would work well. If I opted for a different bookshelf speaker like a SVS Ultra, I could place 3 identical for LRC and place the center one vertical like the LR. I also have a weird room with an open stair well on one side, so calibration via the AVR should help compensate, although I have not decided on a new AVR yet, but most likely will go Denon.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Certainly in my case I would have no clue. I do not have the desire to audition multiple speakers in my home before deciding what to keep, and it is not easy to find some of these locally to listen to in a store environment or another users home. That leaves me to look at specs and reviews that I can find online. From what I gather, Ascend Acoustics is about as transparent as a company can be in terms of providing good specs and not overstated ones, so I will probably opt for their new CMT340SE2. As I understand it, what they sell as a center channel happens to be the same speaker as the LR pair, only the labeling is reoriented for a horizontal placement. I have a credenza with a center channel shelf so that would work well. If I opted for a different bookshelf speaker like a SVS Ultra, I could place 3 identical for LRC and place the center one vertical like the LR. I also have a weird room with an open stair well on one side, so calibration via the AVR should help compensate, although I have not decided on a new AVR yet, but most likely will go Denon.

Those Ascend Acoustics are well-liked on AVS. I came very, very close to pulling the trigger on them. They are essentially large bookshelf speakers so if I got them I would need to buy stands for them. At that point the combined cost of speakers and stands got into tower speaker territory. I liked the idea of more speaker drivers inside a tower enclosure plus the added feature of greater stability to tipping over with the towers.

Yes, the idea of blindly buying speakers without hearing them raises concerns. In my neck of the woods the options for listening is Best Buy with their mass-produced brands like Polk Audio, Klipsch, etc. or their high end Magnolia section of speakers that were too rich for my wallet. Either Best Buy or boutique shops with ridiculously high prices. I relied on scouring the internet for reviews and reached a consensus.

I believe SVS has a "free" return policy. I'm sure it is baked into their pricing but it is there. I'm certain you will like the Ascends.

Here are my A5.5 Chanes. They do come with arms with carpet spikes and floor discs that mount on the bottom of the speakers for stability (not attached in these photos.)

 

[eytonxav]

Yes, the Ascends are essentially bookshelves although they refer to them as mini towers. They do need the stands which are sold separately as they should not be floor mounted. Right now there is introductory pricing in effect on their new SE2s which have been redesigned and are supposedly a big improvement over the prior version which received a lot of love.

 

[Music Lover]

My center speaker was delivered today, I hooked it up and we put on a movie for a few minutes to test it out. There was an instant improvement, and we were able to hear dialogue clearly over the background music and during action scenes. I don't have any surrounds or a subwoofer, just a pair of good tower speakers.

I didn't make any adjustments other than to set the crossover to 80 hz, I'll see if any further adjustments are required after a proper listening. Overall, we're both glad that we bought it.

 

[Qs Laptop]

My center speaker was delivered today, I hooked it up and we put on a movie for a few minutes to test it out. There was an instant improvement, and we were able to hear dialogue clearly over the background music and during action scenes. I don't have any surrounds or a subwoofer, just a pair of good tower speakers.

I didn't make any adjustments other than to set the crossover to 80 hz, I'll see if any further adjustments are required after a proper listening. Overall, we're both glad that we bought it.

Love it!

 

[Koolau]

My center speaker was delivered today, I hooked it up and we put on a movie for a few minutes to test it out. There was an instant improvement, and we were able to hear dialogue clearly over the background music and during action scenes. I don't have any surrounds or a subwoofer, just a pair of good tower speakers.

I didn't make any adjustments other than to set the crossover to 80 hz, I'll see if any further adjustments are required after a proper listening. Overall, we're both glad that we bought it.

Heh, heh, I'm betting the center speaker was a lot less money than a set of hearing aids. I gotta look into this!

 

[Music Lover]

Heh, heh, I'm betting the center speaker was a lot less money than a set of hearing aids. I gotta look into this!

The main difference is that dialogue goes almost exclusively into the center channel rather than it being buried among the background music and action noises.

On most receivers the volume level of each speaker can also be adjusted so everyone should be able to find their sweet spot.

 

[Koolau]

The main difference is that dialogue goes almost exclusively into the center channel rather than it being buried among the background music and action noises.

On most receivers the volume level of each speaker can also be adjusted so everyone should be able to find their sweet spot.

I'm lovin' it! I just hate it when the background sounds/music overwhelm spoken dialog. Thanks for the tutorial.

 

[Time2]

, an average impedance of 6 ohms,

Speaker impedance is funny spec, if you google speaker impedance graphs, you will see speaker impedance varies from 5Ω to 25Ω and and is normal, then others are well outside of those numbers.
This site has a speaker with an impedance that varies from 3Ω to over 50Ω.
Along with a somewhat interesting story.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/why-impedance-curves-of-speaker-systems-matter.1493836/
I never could reconcile output linearity and the impedance curve, when at some point you will have 1/5 as much power (Watts) driving one frequency as at another frequency, assuming the same Drive Voltage.

 

[ERD50]

....
This site has a speaker with an impedance that varies from 3Ω to over 50Ω.
Along with a somewhat interesting story.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/why-impedance-curves-of-speaker-systems-matter.1493836/
I never could reconcile output linearity and the impedance curve, when at some point you will have 1/5 as much power (Watts) driving one frequency as at another frequency, assuming the same Drive Voltage.

I'm not certain, but I think the higher impedance represents a higher efficiency at that frequency (maybe due to being closer to resonance). So it takes less current to move the cone the same distance. Overall, the sound level is (fairly) linear. At least that's the best reasoning I can come up with!

The crossover will also play into that, but I think that still reflects the overall system efficiency.

-ERD50

 

[Music Lover]

I was watching The Voice last night with my wife...she likes the singers, I like the house band, lol.

Anyway, I noticed that the center channel wasn't on and the receiver wouldn't allow me to change it away from "2 channel stereo". I stopped the show and played a recorded movie and the center channel became activated. So, it looks like the broadcast (NBC) defaults to 2 channel stereo and that can't be changed. I haven't yet tried any other networks to see how the center channel functions.

 

[Qs Laptop]

I was watching The Voice last night with my wife...she likes the singers, I like the house band, lol.

Anyway, I noticed that the center channel wasn't on and the receiver wouldn't allow me to change it away from "2 channel stereo". I stopped the show and played a recorded movie and the center channel became activated. So, it looks like the broadcast (NBC) defaults to 2 channel stereo and that can't be changed. I haven't yet tried any other networks to see how the center channel functions.

Could be that NBC defaults to 2-channel stereo for "The Voice", since it's a musical show. I know when I watch Blacklist it's full surround sound (and it sounds like crap, thanks NBC, so I put my AVR on multi-channel sound, which splits the sound signal equally to all speakers.)

 

[Music Lover]

Could be that NBC defaults to 2-channel stereo for "The Voice", since it's a musical show. I know when I watch Blacklist it's full surround sound (and it sounds like crap, thanks NBC, so I put my AVR on multi-channel sound, which splits the sound signal equally to all speakers.)

We watched a movie tonight (The Incredible Hulk) so lots of action and sound effects. The center channel worked great and the dialogue was clear although I thought it was lacking bass, so I changed the center from a "small" to "large" speaker on the receiver and that improved things.

I'm now researching subwoofers

 

[Qs Laptop]

We watched a movie tonight (The Incredible Hulk) so lots of action and sound effects. The center channel worked great and the dialogue was clear although I thought it was lacking bass, so I changed the center from a "small" to "large" speaker on the receiver and that improved things.

I'm now researching subwoofers

If you are researching subwoofers you probably already know if you have a decent subwoofer you will want to change the speaker setting back to "small" on the receiver. The reason is that some receivers, when speakers are set to "large", will send bass notes below 80 Hz to the speakers even if you had previously set the crossover to 80 Hz.