Rodent infestation - Landlord blames tenants. Please help.

[Irishgirlyc58]

If I was her I would contact Legal Services of Northern California.
They can help tenants with LL issues.
If LSNC doesn’t cover that area they can give her the contact information for the agency that does.

 

[euro]

Yes, that is as much as I've also told her. However, does the LL not have the duty to call pest control and actually set baits / traps and close openings?

Yes, he does. Especially in California which is a very tenant friendly state. If she wants to push the issue, she can simply call the local health department and report unsanitary rodent infestation. They will go after the landlord immediately because in most localities, infected houses are considered uninhabitable. This does come with the risk that the landlord can claim he needs to vacate the property in order to deal with the issue properly, so pushing this might get her essentially kicked out of the place. Could go either way.
As far as the carpet, it is past it’s useful life at 8 years, so no way any court (again, especially not a California court) would award a significant replacement cost to the landlord. Landlord is definitely responsible for blocking the access points of the vermin.

 

[euro]

On the tenant's side (and yes, we have been through this):


After 8 years, I don't think any judge would award a landlord anything for a dirty or damaged carpet, no matter how disgusting. That's what security deposits are for.he tenant (who will only resent it

I agree with most of the other points, but not with this one. It is most certainly NOT what the security deposit is for. Carpets have a useful life of maybe 6-8 years (depending on jurisdiction), so after 8 years the need for replacing it is considered normal wear and tear. The landlord gets to charge little or nothing for the replacement cost. Whether that is by direct billing or taking it out of the security deposit. Security deposits belong to the tenant and deductions have to be justified. If the tenant takes such a charge to court, the landlord can (and likely will) be charged triple damage.

 

[Amethyst]

Yeah, carpet is one of those things. Probably the S.D. could not be used for 8-year-old carpet, although we did charge one couple who rented from us for one year, and ruined the new carpet by keeping their motorcycle in the living room (and working on it, to judge from the oil everywhere).

Their excuse? "No carport!" (So why would you pick our home to rent with a motorcycle?)

 

[Amethyst]

As with other disasters (flood, fire) the landlord puts the temporarily-evicted tenants in a hotel. We never had to do this; can't recall if the tenants have to pay for their own moving and storage.

in most localities, infected houses are considered uninhabitable. This does come with the risk that the landlord can claim he needs to vacate the property in order to deal with the issue properly, so pushing this might get her essentially kicked out of the place. .

 

[Letj]

As a landlord of 25 years who have had many tenants, I have dealt with this scenario. This situation is almost certainly the tenant’s fault as a result of poor or non existent housekeeping skills. Children have to be trained to clean up after themselves and the parents have to be constantly vigilant in maintaining a clean place with no food droppings for mice and roaches. I believe that mental illness can play a role. I’ve had tenants with young children who never ever cleaned their bathrooms or anywhere else in the house with no area visible on the floor and remnants of food and food wrappings strewn all over and they were very comfortable living like this. Your friend owes the landlord big time and I definitely see why they want to get rid of her as they should.

 

[Safire]

If there were no rodents till this year, that's sheer good luck (the other tenants' cats are probably helping too).

"Rodents getting in" is what rodents do. They find their way in at some point, while foraging for food and a place to raise their young. Just as in your own home, you bear some responsibility for not giving them a friendly welcome. The one thing on the landlord is to bring in an exterminator to assess the whole situation, across the building the landlord owns, and propose solutions. But just as in your own home, if the exterminator says to keep food locked up and unavailable to rodents, the person who lives there is on the hook to comply. No solution will work without that. The mice don't give a rap how hard it is to control your kids.

Absolutely agree that she needs to clean up. I just don't agree that her LL's idea of '"pest control" as being "deep clean your unit" with no other concrete / corrective actions on their part as all that needs to be done. The exterminator did nothing but walk around the unit pointing out crumbs in the floor and cleaning he'll be back to check-in on the "cleaning progress". No traps were laid, nothing.

 

[Safire]

Yes, he does. Especially in California which is a very tenant friendly state. If she wants to push the issue, she can simply call the local health department and report unsanitary rodent infestation. They will go after the landlord immediately because in most localities, infected houses are considered uninhabitable. This does come with the risk that the landlord can claim he needs to vacate the property in order to deal with the issue properly, so pushing this might get her essentially kicked out of the place. Could go either way.
As far as the carpet, it is past it’s useful life at 8 years, so no way any court (again, especially not a California court) would award a significant replacement cost to the landlord. Landlord is definitely responsible for blocking the access points of the vermin.

Thanks. I think escalating it to the health department would make things even more difficult with the LL, especially as she wants to stay there until her kids graduate. I don't know if I can place an anonymous call to the health department to report on the general conditions of the buildings? I don't want to quote her that other tenants in other buildings also have rodent issues as that is hearsay to me. Would the health department act on anonymous, non-resident calls?

The OP's friend should look for a place that allows a bird to fly freely 2 hours per day or rehome the bird.

And either way, at this point, look for a new place.

The bird is the deal breaker. No way that bird isn't pooping. Whether or not the bird is the cause of the rats is debatable, but the LL can easily shirk responsibility based on what they have seen. If the friend can't move, then she needs to clean up and exterminate properly out of her own pocket, because the evidence shows she's a possible factor in creating the issue.

If this is an apartment complex, the other neighbors now also have rats...or will soon. The friend could find herself in a very expensive and unpleasant situation if she doesn't fix this herself really really soon. Surely there are organizations that will take in the bird? I know it is unpleasant to give up a pet, but they are a responsibility.

LL has already "shirked responsibility" by doing NOTHING but insisting she deep clean her unit. The manager sent her an email that all she needs to do is clean up and it will all go away. That is my concern.

But how do they blame her for rats in other people's homes? They don't need to take responsibility for their own homes? The bird is in the closet and is fed there. And yes it poops, mostly also in the closet where it stays most of the day, unfortunately.

She cleans up and has scheduled a deep clean, but blaming her 100% for the infestation, and for other people's potential infestations / pests and insinuating that she should pay for their potential infestation makes me feel she needs an attorney now! Whose to say the rodent infestation didn't originate in the unit with the fruit fly infestation ?

 

[Jerry1]

The tenant is a close friend and fellow autism parent who I've known for years via the autism forums we both frequent.

Children have to be trained to clean up after themselves

I was also thinking about the child dropping food and re-read the OP and I believe there may be extenuating circumstances with the child (autism). Not that the apartment doesn’t need to be cleaned, but may need to give some consideration for that possibility.

As for the bird - it’s gotta go. I’ve had one mouse in my house and it’s when I had a hamster. I kept thinking how messy the hamster was (food all around the outside of its cage) and then I noticed the hole in the food bag. Set trap and got mouse. Got rid of food and hamster and I’ve never had a mouse again. Never did figure out how it got in.

 

[ivinsfan]

I was also thinking about the child dropping food and re-read the OP and I believe there may be extenuating circumstances with the child (autism). Not that the apartment doesn’t need to be cleaned, but may need to give some consideration for that possibility.

As for the bird - it’s gotta go. I’ve had one mouse in my house and it’s when I had a hamster. I kept thinking how messy the hamster was (food all around the outside of its cage) and then I noticed the hole in the food bag. Set trap and got mouse. Got rid of food and hamster and I’ve never had a mouse again. Never did figure out how it got in.

There is Mom and two mid to late teens living in the house. At least one of them should be able to clean up mess as it happens.

 

[ivinsfan]

Absolutely agree that she needs to clean up. I just don't agree that her LL's idea of '"pest control" as being "deep clean your unit" with no other concrete / corrective actions on their part as all that needs to be done. The exterminator did nothing but walk around the unit pointing out crumbs in the floor and cleaning he'll be back to check-in on the "cleaning progress". No traps were laid, nothing.

Well I don't have a problem with this why should the exterminator waste his time until the tenant can at least make the effort to clean stuff up. At that point your friend should had sad I'll have completely cleaned by 9AM Wednesday let's get something on your schedule.


Oh and it's a few crumbs on the floor, I think you forgot about the bird crap and now its full of mouse turds as well.

 

[Safire]

Well I don't have a problem with this why should the exterminator waste his time until the tenant can at least make the effort to clean stuff up. At that point your friend should had sad I'll have completely cleaned by 9AM Wednesday let's get something on your schedule.


Oh and it's a few crumbs on the floor, I think you forgot about the bird crap and now its full of mouse turds as well.

Because there's no "bird crap" on the floors. That poor bird is in the closet unfortunately. As for "full of mouse turd" lol... Have you actually been in a house with a rodent infestation? Or actually parented a kid with autism ? It's a 24/7 job if you start running after the kid his entire waking hours and NO ONE does that, not even parents with "non-autistic" kids. So don't pretend otherwise.

I wondered how long it would be before her parenting was questioned - wasn't very long at all. Just remember thay Karma has long hands and an even longer memory..

 

[Safire]

I was also thinking about the child dropping food and re-read the OP and I believe there may be extenuating circumstances with the child (autism). Not that the apartment doesn’t need to be cleaned, but may need to give some consideration for that possibility.

As for the bird - it’s gotta go. I’ve had one mouse in my house and it’s when I had a hamster. I kept thinking how messy the hamster was (food all around the outside of its cage) and then I noticed the hole in the food bag. Set trap and got mouse. Got rid of food and hamster and I’ve never had a mouse again. Never did figure out how it got in.

Yes, that's probably the solution here. The bird needs to go. It shouldn't be in a closet all day long, to begin with.

 

[ivinsfan]

Because there's no "bird crap" on the floors. That poor bird is in the closet unfortunately. As for "full of mouse turd" lol... Have you actually been in a house with a rodent infestation?

In your first post you say management came to look and said there was birdseed and bird crap on the carpet. Has it been cleaned since then?



I'm just going by what you wrote.


I live in 100 YO farm house and as a matter of course, always have some glue traps and a spring trap or two located in certain areas. Also use steel wool around any small entry points. These things cost almost nothing and take almost no effort so, No I don't have a rodent infestation.



You can also buy rat or mouse sized live traps for the sneaky ones that are trap savvy. You realize if you don't kill the first several that get in, no more have to enter the place before you have an infestation.

 

[pacergal]

OP--sorry your friend is going through this. s
Some things come to mind:
Possibly contacting the local Audubon Society for rehoming the bird
Deep clean apartment as planned
All family members need to eat/drink only in the kitchen and all food/drink spills cleaned after each meal. This may take some patience if her autistic child has been allowed to wander the apartment and eat/drink at will.
Place steel wool in the other openings that were identified, at least until they get properly closed. Mice don't like steel wool.

If these are followed and mice are still present, she will have a better opportunity to show that she is not the cause for the infestation.

 

[ivinsfan]

OP--sorry your friend is going through this. s
Some things come to mind:
Possibly contacting the local Audubon Society for rehoming the bird
Deep clean apartment as planned
All family members need to eat/drink only in the kitchen and all food/drink spills cleaned after each meal. This may take some patience if her autistic child has been allowed to wander the apartment and eat/drink at will.
Place steel wool in the other openings that were identified, at least until they get properly closed. Mice don't like steel wool.

If these are followed and mice are still present, she will have a better opportunity to show that she is not the cause for the infestation.

AS for deep cleaning check the cloth furniture carefully as well...pull out cushions vacuum between the arms and sofa and even tip it over if you to check out the bottom.

 

[ERD50]

I was also thinking about the child dropping food and re-read the OP and I believe there may be extenuating circumstances with the child (autism). Not that the apartment doesn’t need to be cleaned, but may need to give some consideration for that possibility. ...

Sure, but the mouse doesn't care about extenuating circumstances, it's looking for food. If dropped food is adding to the problem, it needs to be corrected, regardless the cause, or the problem will remain.

... As for the bird - it’s gotta go. ...

+1 on the comments that the bird has to go. DW has had birds in the past, and I was always after her to keep it clean. Even with a guard up around the cage, they manage to drop seed around. And every once in a while, I'd find the bird seed container not completely sealed. Even the smell probably attracts rodents.

Sounds like this person is struggling, adding a bird to care for doesn't help, and it sounds like it's not fair to the bird either.

-ERD50

 

[pacergal]

One other possibility for the bird--
Our local Humane Society will take in birds, OP--is this a place she has contacted?

 

[cathy63]

... What are her options? Lawyers are expensive and I was hoping to pass on some information to her if anyone could give her GENERAL advice on whether she can be forced to move and if the landlord can pin the infestation on her and make her responsible for replacing the carpet? Per the terms of her lease, she is not responsible for cleaning carpets after 5 years of residency, but the maintenance manager very kindly pointed out that that is only for cleaning and "normal wear and tear". This damage is not "normal" he says, so she's responsible.

Any advice for her? Again, is the infestation and subsequent carpet damage her fault / responsibility to cure?

I'll have her read any responses here herself. Thank you so much for your advice in this regard.

There is a ton of free legal help available for tenants, especially in California. Start with an org like https://baylegal.org/. When she meets with a counselor, she should bring a copy of her lease and recent photos that show the current condition of the unit and any damage from rodents or otherwise.

It sounds like a stressful situation with a lot of emotion, so having an advocate who knows the local laws and has dealt with similar situations in the past would help her understand her rights and responsibilities in this situation.

 

[ivinsfan]

There is a ton of free legal help available for tenants, especially in California. Start with an org like https://baylegal.org/. When she meets with a counselor, she should bring a copy of her lease and recent photos that show the current condition of the unit and any damage from rodents or otherwise.

It sounds like a stressful situation with a lot of emotion, so having an advocate who knows the local laws and has dealt with similar situations in the past would help her understand her rights and responsibilities in this situation.

As this the tenant world be better served by spending time mitigating some issues herself..like cleaning and buying some traps and removing that closet bird.

 

[cathy63]

As this the tenant world be better served by spending time mitigating some issues herself..like cleaning and buying some traps and removing that closet bird.

Well sure, and I expect her advocate would tell her exactly that. OP seems to feel that the friend's landlord has not done enough, and I don't see any of the posts from other landlords (and I am also one) having much of an effect on OP. If the tenant is in the same frame of mind, then the responses here are probably not going to motivate her either. Hearing the same thing from an expert that she can actually sit across from and talk to may make more of a difference.

 

[Safire]

Well sure, and I expect her advocate would tell her exactly that. OP seems to feel that the friend's landlord has not done enough, and I don't see any of the posts from other landlords (and I am also one) having much of an effect on OP. If the tenant is in the same frame of mind, then the responses here are probably not going to motivate her either. Hearing the same thing from an expert that she can actually sit across from and talk to may make more of a difference.

I absolutely do think she needs to clean her place and agree that the bird needs to go. My concern was really if the LL has no responsibility in this situation even if - let's say - the tenant is 100% at fault. And if she needed to replace the 8 yr old carpet in her unit?

She's laid traps herself and cleaned up but I told her it needs to be a deep clean, and on a regular basis. The LL did nothing, except tell her to clean up. And there comments here insinuating that she is responsible for infestations in other units and financially responsible to clean them up too! I absolutely have an issue with that and not just because she's my friend. Also, whose to say this infestation didn't originate elsewhere?

 

[braumeister]

My concern was really if the LL has no responsibility in this situation even if - let's say - the tenant is 100% at fault.

WADR, you're asking for a legal opinion and the internet is a terrible place to get that. Why not encourage your friend to make use of some of the legal help that has been suggested here?

 

[ivinsfan]

I absolutely do think she needs to clean her place and agree that the bird needs to go. My concern was really if the LL has no responsibility in this situation even if - let's say - the tenant is 100% at fault. And if she needed to replace the 8 yr old carpet in her unit?

She's laid traps herself and cleaned up but I told her it needs to be a deep clean, and on a regular basis. The LL did nothing, except tell her to clean up. And there comments here insinuating that she is responsible for infestations in other units and financially responsible to clean them up too! I absolutely have an issue with that and not just because she's my friend. Also, whose to say this infestation didn't originate elsewhere?

Why do you keep circling back to the carpet, stay on point. which is how does she get rid of the rodents? Nothing has happened with the carpet at this point.

 

[mystang52]

DW and my first apartment, after marriage, was in a beautiful clean building in Brooklyn, NY. We were there about 2 years when an aged couple moved in a few floors above us. In no time flat the entire building became infested with roaches, because this couple was apparently beyond filthy. I can see where OP's friend may very well be the cause of the rodent infestation.
As others have stated, this friend's habits need to be changed. I don't have an autistic child, but if they are notoriously and chronically messy, it was short-sighted to introduce a bird into that situation, which compounds the problem.
From a legal perspective (I am not a lawyer, just SGOI), OP's friend has to work diligently to show good faith efforts to get the place clean and stay clean.
Right now, were she to go in front of a judge, there would be little evidence of such good faith.