Which Honda 2023 CRV: hybrid vs gas ?

[ERD50]

I think the idea of how much travel on the gas pedal is out of date. most cars now do not even have mechanical linkage[correct me if I am wrong}, but i think most acceleration comes from senors and the amount of gas feed depends on the amount of signal the sensor puts out instead of travel distance.

But even w/o a mechanical linkage, it is the travel of the pedal that is sensed and then fed into the system.

If they aren't measuring the pedal travel, how do you (the driver) tell the car go faster or slower, or accelerate fast/slow?

W/O a mechanical linkage, they can use software to define the curve between pedal position and throttle position. So they could make it less sensitive at the low end if that helps. Anything really.

-ERD50

 

[Masquernom]

IIRC, China at one point stopped Honda from selling the 1.5 l turbo engine in their country due to the problem of gasoline getting into the oil. I have no idea if Honda has corrected the problem. Looks like the 2022 CR-V hybrid is using a 2.0 liter naturally aspirated engine. I'd think that may not have the same problem.

 

[pacergal]

I would go with the hybrid, unless the cost is prohibitive to your budget.

We have a 2016 Camry XLE hybrid. Love it!
When we replaced our last car, I wanted the hybrid, DH not so much. He simply thought they didn't have much power or something. I had him do a test drive and he was impressed.
He now prefers the hybrid more than our other car.

 

[Texas Proud]

If you are talking about F1 (Formula 1) IIRC they currently use a 1.6 liter V6 turbo design and cost per engine are in the many millions... But I'm not an expert on F1's.

Yep, you are right... my bad... and the cost per a website is 10.5 million a pop... with a max cost of $15 mill...

 

[foxfirev5]

My old Buick with the 6cyl 3.8l is an "old man's" car. So the throttle response is very slow and progressive. I thought at first it was a real "stone" until I had to punch it the first time. It's no rocket but it will really move if you flog it. I like progressive throttle response vs what most cars these days give you - most of the response is in the first inch of travel - making you think it's pretty hot when it's not.

Full disclosure: I AM an old man!

I consider the old 3.8l Buick the standard unbreakable engine. Drove a few over 250k miles (bought used).

 

[Yipper]

But even w/o a mechanical linkage, it is the travel of the pedal that is sensed and then fed into the system.



If they aren't measuring the pedal travel, how do you (the driver) tell the car go faster or slower, or accelerate fast/slow?



W/O a mechanical linkage, they can use software to define the curve between pedal position and throttle position. So they could make it less sensitive at the low end if that helps. Anything really.



-ERD50

That’s what they do in my ‘15 twin turbo BMW… depending on the “sport” setting the pedal:throttle position ratio changes.

For the record the ‘10 CR-V we have is a rocket off the line. It’s my favorite.

 

[Yipper]

I consider the old 3.8l Buick the standard unbreakable engine. Drove a few over 250k miles (bought used).

I put almost 200k on one of these in a ‘79 Skyhawk… it was quite quick at the time with its 4spd stick and 3.8L engine.

 

[Koolau]

I consider the old 3.8l Buick the standard unbreakable engine. Drove a few over 250k miles (bought used).

Yes, good buddy from w*rk (just retired) drove his 250K back and forth (30 miles one way) every day for years. Great engine. The car - well, "average" is perhaps the best description. I bought my 2000 for $5K back in '12 and have had to put a couple $grand in it since. Only 101K on the OD, so, still money ahead. Don't even worry about the engine (regular oil changes, etc.)

 

[Lsbcal]

I would go with the hybrid, unless the cost is prohibitive to your budget.

We have a 2016 Camry XLE hybrid. Love it!
When we replaced our last car, I wanted the hybrid, DH not so much. He simply thought they didn't have much power or something. I had him do a test drive and he was impressed.
He now prefers the hybrid more than our other car.

The local dealer will get a 2023 CRV hybrid in November. We are signed up to do a test drive. They stated the car will be MSRP + $2k. The reviews have been very positive. I guess the CRV will not have a true spare tire, only a tire repair kit. We like to go to on day hikes in national parks (like Death Valley) and that makes me a wee bit nervous. But I do have a portable compressor which might help in the unlikely event of a puncture.

The Toyota dealer does not even have a test drive car. Might have to travel some distance to test out the RAV4 2023 hybrid in order to compare. I don't really like the idea they put out of putting down a deposit, then drive the vehicle that comes in and make a decision. Feels wrong.

 

[frank]

The local dealer will get a 2023 CRV hybrid in November. We are signed up to do a test drive. They stated the car will be MSRP + $2k. The reviews have been very positive. I guess the CRV will not have a true spare tire, only a tire repair kit. We like to go to on day hikes in national parks (like Death Valley) and that makes me a wee bit nervous. But I do have a portable compressor which might help in the unlikely event of a puncture.

The Toyota dealer does not even have a test drive car. Might have to travel some distance to test out the RAV4 2023 hybrid in order to compare. I don't really like the idea they put out of putting down a deposit, then drive the vehicle that comes in and make a decision. Feels wrong.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the msrp/s you're seeing for the rav4 and the honda crv, both awd and hybrid?

 

[Lsbcal]

If you don't mind me asking, what are the msrp/s you're seeing for the rav4 and the honda crv, both awd and hybrid?

Depends somewhat on the trim levels. Here are a few which you can get from the Toyota site after doing an AWD build but without checking the dealer website to see what their "above MSRP" deal is like:

RAV4 $41600 for XSE with premium package
CRV.. $39845 Sport touring

We located one Toyota dealer who sells at MSRP and a Honda dealer who sells at MSRP+$2k. So wonder of wonders, they both are priced about the same. I have not added in the sales tax here which is (choke) 10%.

If we get a recession maybe the situation changes?

 

[Another Reader]

MSRP on the typical 2023 LE Camry with minimal preordered options is over $27,000. The 2023 Corolla appears to be in the high $22's. Keeping the existing fleet until the market softens.

 

[frank]

I was looking at a rav4 2020 with an upgrade package and the hybrid, awd. it has 45k miles and he wants 40k for that. I thought might as well order new. that;s why I asked what kind of price you were seeing. I don't think that the dealers are having a very hard time staying open though, I talked to the service manager at a local toyota dealership and he was saying the sales department never made so much money and are in no hurry to go back to the old ways. also shop rates are variable from 169. per hr to 199. per hr. depending on how difficult of a job and the expertise of the technicians, plus there is a 22% charge for shop supplies[choke]. where will it end?

 

[Car-Guy]

+1

At Frank's urging I got the 6-cylinder engine in my 2009 Venza, instead of the 4-cylinder. Six cylinders is not like we remembered six cylinders to be, back in the day; in this car it is WAY too much acceleration. Even getting on the interstate, if I press the accelerator down just maybe 1/16th of an inch, Frank will yell, "hey, SLOW DOWN!". It's that over-powered.

I usually agree with most of your posts, but not this one... That's like saying a car is too fast, or having too much money, or a girl is too pretty or we are having too much fun (as in the song)... There just ain't no such things.

.

I always have to adjust if I drive my DW's Honda CR-V with the 3.0 (3.3?) Liter 6 cylinder, non-turbo engine. So much more low end torque than my old 2.0 L, 4 cylinder, turbo Volvo, or my current 1.4 (!) L, turbo, Buick Encore. If I don't think, I'm jamming the pedal from a stop and spinning the tires!

Then you probably wouldn't like my 6.2L Dodge... If you jam the pedal from a standing start, you aren't going to go very far anytime soon.

 

[Lsbcal]

The way it works here is that the dealer takes orders for new RAV4's. They get an allocation and call up those individuals who placed the order with a $500 deposit. Hopefully you have a vehicle you like in that allocation list for the month. You then test drive the car and pay the MSRP (or MSRP+ if you cannot find a better dealer, which we did).

Well at least there is not worry about haggling. But I don't know how it works with a trade in. Luckily used cars are selling well still.

 

[REWahoo]

I was looking at a rav4 2020 with an upgrade package and the hybrid, awd. it has 45k miles and he wants 40k for that. I thought might as well order new.

If ordering a Rav4 hybrid, be prepared to wait a year for delivery of what may be a 2024 model. The plug-in Prime model has an even longer wait time of 18-24 months.

For Toyota hybrids and plug-in hybrids, wait times are commonly around one year. For the Toyota RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime, wait times are now 18 months to close to two years. Keep this in mind if you’re in the market for a Toyota plug-in hybrid.

https://joinyaa.com/guides/factory-order-wait-times-2022/#Toyota_Factory_Order_Wait_Times

 

[Lsbcal]

If ordering a Rav4 hybrid, be prepared to wait a year for delivery of what may be a 2024 model. The plug-in Prime model has an even longer wait time of 18-24 months.

https://joinyaa.com/guides/factory-order-wait-times-2022/#Toyota_Factory_Order_Wait_Times

That was not our experience. We put in an order this year and in a few months we had the opportunity to buy a RAV4 hybrid at MSRP. I admit, I chickened out and failed to pull the trigger.

Going forward, I would guess that the redesigned CRV hybrid competition plus a weakened consumer will work to the buyers advantage.

Next time I'll just close my eyes (to the price) and pull that trigger. Where is that gun-to-the-head emoji?

 

[frank]

the local dealer told me 3 to 6 months depending on what shows up on their allocation and what you ordered.

 

[REWahoo]

the local dealer told me 3 to 6 months depending on what shows up on their allocation and what you ordered.

You know the old joke about how you can tell if a car salesman is lying, right?

Seriously, Toyota suffered some severe parts shortages starting in late Spring thanks to China's efforts to curtail the spread of Covid. As a result, they had to shut down production for a while on many models, including their high-demand hybrids. Production stopped but demand didn't, so they now apparently have a huge backlog of orders, resulting in major delays.

You could always get lucky, but I'd be prepared for a very long wait on any Toyota hybrid order.

 

[frank]

I was looking at a rav4 2020 with an upgrade package and the hybrid, awd. it has 45k miles and he wants 40k for that. I thought might as well order new. that;s why I asked what kind of price you were seeing. I don't think that the dealers are having a very hard time staying open though, I talked to the service manager at a local toyota dealership and he was saying the sales department never made so much money and are in no hurry to go back to the old ways. also shop rates are variable from 169. per hr to 199. per hr. depending on how difficult of a job and the expertise of the technicians, plus there is a 22% charge for shop supplies[choke]. where will it end?

sorry I forgot to mention the 22% shop supply fee had an 80 dollar cap.

 

[Maximus]

2023 CRV Pricing

Depends somewhat on the trim levels. Here are a few which you can get from the Toyota site after doing an AWD build but without checking the dealer website to see what their "above MSRP" deal is like:

RAV4 $41600 for XSE with premium package
CRV.. $39845 Sport touring

We located one Toyota dealer who sells at MSRP and a Honda dealer who sells at MSRP+$2k. So wonder of wonders, they both are priced about the same. I have not added in the sales tax here which is (choke) 10%.

If we get a recession maybe the situation changes?

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-a...as-americas-favorite-suv-raises-the-bar-again

I have called 10 dealers. All want $1500 to $3000 over MSRP. Some don’t call it over MSRP but add a pretty much worthless package of $2000 dollars in dealer add on items.

 

[Texas Proud]

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-a...as-americas-favorite-suv-raises-the-bar-again

I have called 10 dealers. All want $1500 to $3000 over MSRP. Some don’t call it over MSRP but add a pretty much worthless package of $2000 dollars in dealer add on items.

Those add on items are on most cars here... that is in addition to the thousands over MSRP...


This feels like it was back in the 80s with the import limits when there was a lot of demand with not enough supply... as long as I do not have to buy a car I can wait...

 

[Koolau]

Depends somewhat on the trim levels. Here are a few which you can get from the Toyota site after doing an AWD build but without checking the dealer website to see what their "above MSRP" deal is like:

RAV4 $41600 for XSE with premium package
CRV.. $39845 Sport touring

We located one Toyota dealer who sells at MSRP and a Honda dealer who sells at MSRP+$2k. So wonder of wonders, they both are priced about the same. I have not added in the sales tax here which is (choke) 10%.

If we get a recession maybe the situation changes?

Back in '17, I bought my 2012 RAV 4 (I-4) with 70K on the OD. Out the door (taxes, title, registration, excise tax, yadda, yadda) for $13,000.01 (dealer couldn't make it come out even to his promised $13K all in.)

Today, I just can not wrap my head around $40K for a new car - any car. It just does not compute for some reason. I understand the fun of a new car (the smell, too) and some of the new technology would keep me busy learning and playing with for a long time. But I drive less than 5K/year so I just can't justify it - even though I would love a new car (all else being equal.)

But, honestly, I love to hear everyone's stories about their new cars and feel for folks who must wait a year for an ordered car (and pay the "greedy" dealers more than MSRP.) YMMV

 

[Telly]

Those add on items are on most cars here... that is in addition to the thousands over MSRP...

This feels like it was back in the 80s with the import limits when there was a lot of demand with not enough supply... as long as I do not have to buy a car I can wait...

Ah yes, the "PPP" add-on sticker. (Pure Profit Package)

Looked at a Toyota Tercel Wagon back in ~1985. Every car on the lot had PPP labels on them, for $$$. No thanks, walked on.

 

[Sunset]

The local dealer will get a 2023 CRV hybrid in November. We are signed up to do a test drive. They stated the car will be MSRP + $2k. The reviews have been very positive. I guess the CRV will not have a true spare tire, only a tire repair kit. We like to go to on day hikes in national parks (like Death Valley) and that makes me a wee bit nervous. But I do have a portable compressor which might help in the unlikely event of a puncture.

The Toyota dealer does not even have a test drive car. Might have to travel some distance to test out the RAV4 2023 hybrid in order to compare. I don't really like the idea they put out of putting down a deposit, then drive the vehicle that comes in and make a decision. Feels wrong.

Maybe you could rent the type of car you want to test drive, while it will cost for a day rental, you will get to drive it for hours. Could plan some short trip and combine the rental test drive with a trip