Why gas prices are so high

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Not an auto enthusiast, so I just looked it up.

KIA EV6

MSRP: From $40,900
Range: 232 to 310 mi battery-only
Battery charge time: 51 to 68h at 110V, 6.3 to 8.7h at 220V, 1.05 to 1.22h at 440V

Fast DC charging: 250kW at 800V

PS. It is named "2022 Car of the Year" in Europe.
 
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Not an auto enthusiast, so I just looked it up.

KIA EV6

MSRP: From $40,900
Range: 232 to 310 mi battery-only
Battery charge time: 51 to 68h at 110V, 6.3 to 8.7h at 220V, 1.05 to 1.22h at 440V

Fast DC charging: 250kW at 800V

PS. It is named "2022 Car of the Year" in Europe.

I was very impressed at how slick it looked. These kinds of vehicles are clearly going to be a big hit here. And they actually look like an SUV. If I didn't see the EV logo, I would never have guessed it was an EV.

At that price point, they will sell a lot of them.
 
The $40,900 price is for the 232-mile range version, which has a 58 kWh battery.

I don't know the price of the long-range 310-mile version with a 77.4 kWh battery.

I still have 3 ICE cars, one just bought in Jan 2020. I am not in the market for an EV anytime soon.

PS. The latest one can get 38 mpg on the highway, if I drive at 60-65 mph.
 
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+1. Too big of a risk to invest in more production. And I suspect that the red tape and permitting costs to drill new wells is significant. Better to wait on increasing production when there is a more favorable political climate in which to operate


So in theory if some government wanted more oil to slow inflation they could offer a guarantee for a minimum price of any oil produced from reopened oil fields?
 
So in theory if some government wanted more oil to slow inflation they could offer a guarantee for a minimum price of any oil produced from reopened oil fields?

I think its not about guarantee of a floor price. No oil company I've heard of has ever asked for that. In fact, oil companies have dealt with fickle prices for a long time. Right now, they're making a bundle, a few years ago, one oil company lost 22 Bil in one year. They are used to that kind of economics. It's more about getting gummint out of the way and letting the companies do what they know how to do without artificial and capricious restrictions with the stroke of a pen. YMMV
 
I drove a Tesla a couple years back when I was looking for a new car. It was like a theme park ride. I left grinning ear to ear it was so much fun. Especially the $125K S model. (Not sure why they let me drive that one) I didn't purchase the Tesla because I did not feel the build quality justified the price. And gas prices were not an issue at the time.

Most Americans would support a transition from fossil fuel to renewable. The key is transition. If an honest, well-thought out energy transition plan with phases spread over decades was agreed upon, and industries were consulted in the process, Americans would have confidence in the plan. Businesses and cultures need time to evolve. The evolution of transportation did not happen in a decade, nor was there just one solution. Battery-powered vehicles are likely to be an early solution into what should be a long transportation evolution into hydrogen, nuclear, and dare I say anti-matter for us Star Trek fans. There isn't, and shouldn't be, just one or two solutions. Science and technology will lead us as it always has. Politicians will mostly get in the way and hinder progress. Once in a while a rare political leader comes along that assists technology. Honesty and planning is the key. Threats and fear are not.

Just my thoughts.
 
So in theory if some government wanted more oil to slow inflation they could offer a guarantee for a minimum price of any oil produced from reopened oil fields?

Just stop threatening to take away their profits is a good start.

It's hard to invest to do new things if you are not allowed to make money off existing things. :)

Whether it's an oil company or a green renewable energy company, they are all trying to make money. I have not seen any green energy company operating as a charity either.
 
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you cannot restart a well with a mouse-click and because not all wells are profitable all the time.





Oil and natural gas companies own fields or the rights to fields.



That is normally all they own. They outsource everything else. They outsource oil exploration to oil exploration companies and they outsource field operations to oil service companies.



When you drill a well, it takes about 5-7 years production running flat out 100% 24/7 to recoup the costs of drilling the well, which isn't the only cost.



The oil service company drills the well, operates the well, connects the feeder lines into the subsidiary and main oil pipelines, installs and maintains all the pumps and all the related machinery.



When you pump oil out of the ground, you pump water back into the well. If you're California, Texas, Louisiana or a Middle Eastern country you'll pump salt-water back into the well.



Why? To maintain static pressure for pumping and to protect and preserve the geologic structure.



A 40 square mile sink hole in Texas or anywhere else is not cool and it's even less cool if your home is within that 40 square miles.



At some point, and this usually 10 to 20 years later, water starts impacting your costs and the text-book case for this is Illinois Intermediate.



That field is in southern Illinois and they've been draining it since the 1840s. A barrel of Illinois Intermediate is 25% oil and 75% water.



If it costs you $25/barrel, then you need 4 barrels to give you 1 barrel of oil and 3 barrels of water, which is contaminated and has a value $0, so you just send that to your reclamation plant and pump it back into the field.



But, here's the thing, you just spent $100 to pump 4 barrels of oil and you only got 1 barrel to sell, so unless oil prices are $100/barrel, you just lost a butt-load of money.



So, the last time Illinois Intermediate was pumping was way back when oil was $120/barrel.



Fraking has a relatively higher cost, so oil has to sell for at least $60/barrel just to break even, but that's very simplistic.



OPEC does not now nor have they ever set oil prices. Oil prices are determined by benchmark oils.



West Texas Intermediate (WTI)) is both a global benchmark oil and regional benchmark oil (for the North/South American Region.)



What does that mean?



It means all oils are price against the benchmark.



High quality oils sell for higher than the benchmark and that would be nearly all OPEC oils.



Low quality useless garbage oils like crappy Canadian Tar Sands sell for less.



June 25, 2021 had WTI at $72 and change per barrel and the best of the 5 crappy Canadian Tar Sands only sold for $60/barrel.



If you used crappy Canadian Tar Sands for gasoline, then expect to pay $11-$15/gallon every day all the time for the rest of your lives.



You only get 3-5 gallons of gasoline out of a 42-gallon barrel of Canadian Tar Sands. By comparison, Illinois Intermediate is 13 gallons, WTI is 19 gallons, Saudi Light is 26 Gallons and Murban is 29 gallons.



Because of Covid 19, you had slack Demand for oils and natural gas, so production came to a crawl.



Since no one knew when any positive change would come, oil service companies shut down oil and natural gas wells.



Oil service crews worked 8-12/hours per day for 6-10 days to cap the oil wells, blow out the feeder lines, and drain the coolants and fluids from the machinery to set it up for long-term storage.



I don't know much about natural gas wells, except that you have to blow the feeder lines even for short-term shut-down unlike oil wells where you can just camp the well and leave the oil in the feeder lines if you're gonna be shut down for a few weeks or a month or two.





Which brings us to this:



Forty-six exploration and production companies and 61 oil-field service companies filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy last year, according to Haynes and Boone, a Dallas law firm tracking bankruptcies. The 107 oil and gas bankruptcies in 2020 were the most since 142 bankruptcies were filed during the last oil bust in 2016.



https://www.ogv.energy/news-item/ove...nkrupt-in-2020





You have a serious freaking shortage of oil service companies and oil service crews.





The Saudis just own the fields. They don't actually make them go.







10s of 1,000s of oil and natural gas wells were shut down around the world and it wasn't done with a mouse-click. It took 6-8 months to shut those wells down. Now you gotta restart them, and you ain't even got enough workers to do that.



Remember, when you're in bankruptcy, you ain't running the show because you have a court-appointed receiver running the show for you, so it ain't like you can go hire 100 people just because you wanna.



It's gonna take another 6-12 months get enough wells back on-line to make a difference



Very interesting and informative. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
 
Just stop threatening to take away their profits is a good start.

It's hard to invest to do new things if you are not allowed to make money off existing things. :)

Whether it's an oil company or a green renewable energy company, they are all trying to make money. I have not seen any green energy company operating as a charity either.



Agree!
 
$6000.- even at $6/gal buys a lot of gasoline.

Heh, heh, $6000 could have bought my Buick 10 years ago (12 years old at the time) with enough left over for 200 gal of today's gas locally (167 gal at $6/gal). Still driving it after 10 years with a couple dozen miles to 100K on the OD. It's not near the car that Tesla is - but I've ridden in a Tesla and my Buick is more comfortable. YMMV
 
According to official US (EIA) stats, the number of US refineries has indeed been declining since the 1980's.......
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8O0_NUS_C&f=A



HOWEVER the total US refining capacity ROSE by ~25% from 1994 through 2020 (from 15 to almost 19 M BBL/d), then dropped about 5% in 2021-22.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8D0_NUS_4&f=A

Of course not all refining capacity goes into gasoline production, but the basic concept remains.


And getting back to the original title of the thread, most Americans live in States with variable gas taxes which rise with the cost of gas, so a double whammy to the average consumer :(
https://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/variable-rate-gas-taxes.aspx
 
According to official US (EIA) stats, the number of US refineries has indeed been declining since the 1980's.......
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8O0_NUS_C&f=A



HOWEVER the total US refining capacity ROSE by ~25% from 1994 through 2020 (from 15 to almost 19 M BBL/d), then dropped about 5% in 2021-22.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8D0_NUS_4&f=A

Of course not all refining capacity goes into gasoline production, but the basic concept remains.


And getting back to the original title of the thread, most Americans live in States with variable gas taxes which rise with the cost of gas, so a double whammy to the average consumer :(
https://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/variable-rate-gas-taxes.aspx

Household bleach (off brand, too) costs more than gasoline around here. That's where the real consumer screw job is happening (in the grocery store).
 
I have a 13 year old Honda that gets up to 40 miles/gal if we don't drive too fast. Even if I did have an electric vehicle and my gas bill was $0, I would still be pretty upset about high gas prices because it seems to be really screwing with the whole economy.

I know a lot of people don't like Elon Musk, but I was really hoping to see some of these electric semi trucks on the road by now: https://www.tesla.com/semi
 
I have a 13 year old Honda that gets up to 40 miles/gal if we don't drive too fast. Even if I did have an electric vehicle and my gas bill was $0, I would still be pretty upset about high gas prices because it seems to be really screwing with the whole economy.

I know a lot of people don't like Elon Musk, but I was really hoping to see some of these electric semi trucks on the road by now: https://www.tesla.com/semi

Wow. That is impressive. I just wonder where they're gonna get all the batteries to get 500 mile range. WAG is that 2KWh/mile is "optimistic" but what do I know? YMMV
 
I have a 13 year old Honda that gets up to 40 miles/gal if we don't drive too fast. Even if I did have an electric vehicle and my gas bill was $0, I would still be pretty upset about high gas prices because it seems to be really screwing with the whole economy.

I know a lot of people don't like Elon Musk, but I was really hoping to see some of these electric semi trucks on the road by now: https://www.tesla.com/semi

Last I heard Pepsi is first in line for deliveries.
 
Wow. That is impressive. I just wonder where they're gonna get all the batteries to get 500 mile range. WAG is that 2KWh/mile is "optimistic" but what do I know? YMMV

Heavy truck, so heavy in fact that the estimates for the battery are a well kept secret. Some reliable sources say the battery can weight over 10,000 pounds which would diminish the payload these over the road trucks can carry legally. That's one of the reasons no one has surfaced one that can haul what a diesel powered one can.
 
Yes, Tesla has not released any battery specs on the electric semi, and not even on the Cyber pickup. They know the numbers, having done all kinds of road test. I have the feeling they don't want to release the numbers, because they are huge.

People have estimated that the electric semi would have a 1-MWh battery, and yes, the battery would weight 10,000 lbs. And charging the sucker takes a LOT of juice.

I know a lot of people don't like Elon Musk, but I was really hoping to see some of these electric semi trucks on the road by now: https://www.tesla.com/semi


Many companies know how to build electric trucks. The problem is that they are not practical yet.

On the other hand, if diesel fuel gets really expensive, then electric semis can now compete. You just have to charge them with electricity from coal-burning plants.
 
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In Feb 2022, BYD, an established Chinese EV company that also makes its own lithium cells, announced that it will build this semi truck in Lancaster, CA, to fill an order placed by the Swedish company Einride.

Specs: 563 kWh battery, range 200 miles, charging time more than 3 hours.

PS. Buffett is a long-time investor in BYD. BYD is big in electric buses and trucks besides EV cars.

BYD has sold more than 10,000 electric trucks globally, mostly in China. The order from Einride is for 200 semi trucks, with delivery started already.

BYD_8TT_Shenzhen.png
 
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Gas Prices

Really you all think this is the problem? I won’t say it but there is obviously another reason nobody wants to say a name. But there is one person to blame for this.
 
Gas prices

Really you all think this is the problem? I won’t say it but there is obviously another reason nobody wants to say a name. But there is one person to blame for this.

Heck I'll say it: Adolph Hitler. Think how cheap gas would be had he won the war!
 
Really you all think this is the problem? I won’t say it but there is obviously another reason nobody wants to say a name. But there is one person to blame for this.

It's simply free market capitalism of supply and demand and no one person's fault.
 
Really you all think this is the problem? I won’t say it but there is obviously another reason nobody wants to say a name. But there is one person to blame for this.
Well, you could stop driving. That would lower demand and thereby lower the price for the rest of us. So that's where I'd look.
 
Nowhere does it say the U.S. is guaranteed lower fuel prices than most of the modern word.

It's complicated and fuels are commodities, world wide. Heck, there are about 150 different crude oil prices quoted daily in futures markets.
 
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