Why not drive a Tesla?

[midwestguy]

I think that makes sense. If the smallest window unit cools a 10'x10' room, how much smaller is the inside of a car. About 1/5 the size

 

[meierlde]

Sure. That's why they need a lot of batteries. It's just another engineering trade-off, how deep to cycle the batteries versus wear-out.

But even before the batteries are recycled, they will probably have some useful life remaining in less critical applications. An EV battery that has dropped to say 70% of its original capacity means 30% less range, and that can be a problem. But in other (especially non-mobile) applications, just add more batteries (and they should be fairly cheap used to this point).

-ERD50

Actually Tesla should sell a kit to put the batteries into a powerwall after being used on a car. Put that at home and you have some non grid power.

 

[midwestguy]

Makes sense

 

[meierlde]

The tesla uses a lot of range for heat Very very little for air. It has s very small air conditioner with very small motor. I guess like a window air conditioner

When u stop an electric. Absolutely no electric is used. Unless the heat air or lights are on.

Just simple physics

Being an engineering manager, if yi asked my engineers if you started with a blank sheet of paper, what makes more sense

Option 1
Internal combustion engine car

You take some highly explicable fluid, inject it in s small chamber and put s spark in it to create an explosion

Then that drives a shaft around but you need to exhaust the highly poisonous gas through an exhaust, so you add a muffler for noise and a catalitic converter for pollution

You need an electric motor to get this large gas motor running

You need a battery to run the electric motor and a alternator to charge the battery

You need a complex transmission system because this internal combustion engine only has power in a very narrow rpm range. This needs fluid a a torque converter.

The gas motor gets so hot due to its inefficiencies that it needs antifreeze s radiator and pump to cool it down.

Not to mention energy wasting friction brakes. That heat up excessively. N

I can go on but I'm exhausted just thinking about it

Option 2
A electric motor being driven by s large battery. The regenetive brakes recharge the motor when slowing down

No transmission

No engine oil

Not much of anything.

You have a front truck since there is no big gas motor. Only a small electric one

Which makes more sense

Actually the batteries do need cooling when in use as other Li batterys have gotten hot and caught fire, in addition the electronics need cooling, all be it the temps are lower in the cooling system than in an ICE.

 

[midwestguy]

I think the battery temperature is carefully monitors. The fluid cools the batteries

 

[NW-Bound]

I think that makes sense. If the smallest window unit cools a 10'x10' room, how much smaller is the inside of a car. About 1/5 the size

The difference between a car and a home is that a home usually has better insulation. And a car has a higher ratio of glass surfaces that admit light and heat. So, volume ratio may not be relevant.

A car driven at high speeds also has some air leakage, compared to a home. I think heat loss/gain also goes up with speed, the same way one blows on or fans a hot/cold object to speed up its equilibrium with the surrounding air.

The above are conflicting factors, and it makes comparing a home AC to a car AC difficult. However, I believe a car AC is usually made oversized for a simple reason. In a car, people want the interior cooled down fast in a matter of a couple of minutes, while a home AC takes hours to cool down the home.

Once a car interior has cooled down, what BTU/hr does it take to maintain it at a certain temperature difference from the surrounding air? That will depend on its speed due to air leakage and convection, and I have not looked for the typical number for an average car to have any idea.

However, if a Tesla takes more power for heating than for cooling, while physics says that raising or lowering the same delta temperature should take the same amount of calories, then the difference is in the efficiency of the heater and the AC. Indeed, an AC with a COP of 4 will use 1/4 the power of a heater to move the same amount of heat.

I wonder if any EV maker has considered using the AC in a heat pump mode to improve efficiency in the winter. Most likely, they have thought of it, but it brings more complication that they do not want to tackle.

 

[midwestguy]

I would agree about the lower level of insulation.

 

[Texas Proud]

Can't you do this with a remote starter in any car?

I thought Texas Proud has a Pilot (at least that's what was being compared earlier), which is automatic only, as are the vast majority of cars sold in this country.

I do not think ours had the remote starter option... but that is wasting a lot of gas for the AC... since electricity is cheaper I would not feel as bad...


Also, I do not know how close you need to be to start... IOW, if it is only a few hundred yards that car will still be hotter than heck.... it takes up to 5 minutes to get cool at times... now, not the Pilot as I had the windows tinted with heat resistant (do not know the official name) tinting... really cuts down on the heat penetration into the cabin... my Elantra has nothing and if you park wrong in the sun the steering wheel is too hot to touch....

 

[Texas Proud]

The tesla uses a lot of range for heat Very very little for air. It has s very small air conditioner with very small motor. I guess like a window air conditioner

When u stop an electric. Absolutely no electric is used. Unless the heat air or lights are on.

Just simple physics

Being an engineering manager, if yi asked my engineers if you started with a blank sheet of paper, what makes more sense

Option 1
Internal combustion engine car

You take some highly explicable fluid, inject it in s small chamber and put s spark in it to create an explosion

Then that drives a shaft around but you need to exhaust the highly poisonous gas through an exhaust, so you add a muffler for noise and a catalitic converter for pollution

You need an electric motor to get this large gas motor running

You need a battery to run the electric motor and a alternator to charge the battery

You need a complex transmission system because this internal combustion engine only has power in a very narrow rpm range. This needs fluid a a torque converter.

The gas motor gets so hot due to its inefficiencies that it needs antifreeze s radiator and pump to cool it down.

Not to mention energy wasting friction brakes. That heat up excessively. N

I can go on but I'm exhausted just thinking about it

Option 2
A electric motor being driven by s large battery. The regenetive brakes recharge the motor when slowing down

No transmission

No engine oil

Not much of anything.

You have a front truck since there is no big gas motor. Only a small electric one

Which makes more sense

The engineers might like option two, but the bean counters like option 1...

Option 1 can be built for as low as $10,000 and sold retail for $19,000....

Option 2 can be built for $50,000 and be sold for $40,000.....


Oh, an option 1 can stop and fuel up in less than 10 minutes, but option 2 will take at least 30 and maybe a couple of hours....


(note, all numbers made up )

 

[RunningBum]

I do not think ours had the remote starter option... but that is wasting a lot of gas for the AC... since electricity is cheaper I would not feel as bad...


Also, I do not know how close you need to be to start... IOW, if it is only a few hundred yards that car will still be hotter than heck.... it takes up to 5 minutes to get cool at times... now, not the Pilot as I had the windows tinted with heat resistant (do not know the official name) tinting... really cuts down on the heat penetration into the cabin... my Elantra has nothing and if you park wrong in the sun the steering wheel is too hot to touch....

AFAIK remote start can be added after market to almost any modern automatic transmission car. My dad had one added to his Odyssey years ago, so I'm sure a Pilot could be done as well. As far as the gas vs. electric use, it seems really odd to say you're willing to drive all around in a gas car, but not let it idle with the A/C on. It's just a small part of the whole gas vs. electric trade off.

I always use one of those cheap fold up reflective shields for my front window. You can also tint your windows after market. When I lived in Austin I thought it was worthwhile to do this for my son's used Mitsu Galant. It's a whole lot cheaper than buying a new Tesla and goes a pretty long way to addressing the issue.


Edited to add: a quick google search of remote car start system shows those that can be started from your phone.

 

[midwestguy]

Excellent point.

Option 1 is built for $10,000 sold for $19,000. And sell millions of cars

Have a stock PE of 5.29 and a yield of 4.45. And a market CAP of 51 billion.
(This is GM)

Option 2 is probably more like built for $90,000. , sold for $80,000 and sell 100,000

Have a incalculable PE because you have never made any money. No yield. And a market CAP of 63 billion

Even crazier is that the are building a new car (model3). That threat have already sold over 400,000 and they hope to make money on that. We shall see

After this crazy logic I bought Tesla stock after owning one due to being convinced this is the future. I doubled my money since November (made100k).

More people than me must believe this is the future.

The stock price ,even to me seems crazy overvalued

 

[midwestguy]

By the way, I also have a MBA

 

[Koolau]

The tesla uses a lot of range for heat Very very little for air. It has s very small air conditioner with very small motor. I guess like a window air conditioner

When u stop an electric. Absolutely no electric is used. Unless the heat air or lights are on.

Just simple physics

Being an engineering manager, if yi asked my engineers if you started with a blank sheet of paper, what makes more sense

Option 1
Internal combustion engine car

You take some highly explicable fluid, inject it in s small chamber and put s spark in it to create an explosion

Then that drives a shaft around but you need to exhaust the highly poisonous gas through an exhaust, so you add a muffler for noise and a catalitic converter for pollution

You need an electric motor to get this large gas motor running

You need a battery to run the electric motor and a alternator to charge the battery

You need a complex transmission system because this internal combustion engine only has power in a very narrow rpm range. This needs fluid a a torque converter.

The gas motor gets so hot due to its inefficiencies that it needs antifreeze s radiator and pump to cool it down.

Not to mention energy wasting friction brakes. That heat up excessively. N

I can go on but I'm exhausted just thinking about it

Option 2
A electric motor being driven by s large battery. The regenetive brakes recharge the motor when slowing down

No transmission

No engine oil

Not much of anything.

You have a front truck since there is no big gas motor. Only a small electric one

Which makes more sense

I don't disagree with your logic. Had the technology been there 90 years ago, we might all be driving electric cars now. Unfortunately, our infrastructure (primarily electric grid) would not currently support a switch to all electric cars (IMO). Heh, heh, I'm betting ERD50 has addressed this in other Tesla threads.

Please do not misunderstand. I love the Tesla (and EV in general) technology. I'd maybe (maaaaaaaybbeeeeee) own a Tesla some day. I just think it's going to be a relatively slow process changing the technology from virtually all ICE to all electric - even if all the engineers would vote #2. YMMV

 

[Chuckanut]

T

Which makes more sense

In today's environment could you imagine some entrepreneur saying

"I have developed a new way to power our vehicles. All we have to do is produce, transport, store and then fill the vehicles with this liquid fuel that is highly flammable, explosive in some conditions, carcinogenic and toxic if ingested or absorbed through the skin We can store our vehicles filled with this fuel in the garage attached to our living quarters."

OTOH, concentrated energy in any form always has to be handled with care.

Just a thought..

 

[midwestguy]

I'm not doing that. I agree about the 90 year head start. But they are coming and the transformation is coming

 

[Just_Steve]

I do not think ours had the remote starter option... but that is wasting a lot of gas for the AC... since electricity is cheaper I would not feel as bad...


Also, I do not know how close you need to be to start... IOW, if it is only a few hundred yards that car will still be hotter than heck.... it takes up to 5 minutes to get cool at times... now, not the Pilot as I had the windows tinted with heat resistant (do not know the official name) tinting... really cuts down on the heat penetration into the cabin... my Elantra has nothing and if you park wrong in the sun the steering wheel is too hot to touch....

My daughters auto start works from any distance as long as she has cell service, works from an app on her phone. New car=New tech.

 

[meierlde]

I think the battery temperature is carefully monitors. The fluid cools the batteries

But that does add complexity to the vehicle also, since there are pumps to move the fluid and fluid level monitors required.

 

[meierlde]

I do not think ours had the remote starter option... but that is wasting a lot of gas for the AC... since electricity is cheaper I would not feel as bad...


Also, I do not know how close you need to be to start... IOW, if it is only a few hundred yards that car will still be hotter than heck.... it takes up to 5 minutes to get cool at times... now, not the Pilot as I had the windows tinted with heat resistant (do not know the official name) tinting... really cuts down on the heat penetration into the cabin... my Elantra has nothing and if you park wrong in the sun the steering wheel is too hot to touch....

But for example if you are at home, and the car is parked outside, the 10 mins will get the car cooled down while you finish preparing to leave. Note that this also applies in the winter 10 mins to heat the car up.

 

[Music Lover]

I'm not doing that. I agree about the 90 year head start. But they are coming and the transformation is coming

Electric cars have been around as long a gas powered cars, so it's not that there is a head start to overcome. The problem to overcome was it took 90 years for the battery technology to improve enough to make electric cars feasible.

 

[misanman]

And I'll bet the early electrics didn't get government subsidies.

 

[aja8888]

By the way, I also have a MBA

A lot of us here have one also. Some even have PhD's in engineering.

Is an MBA necessary to buy a Tesla?

 

[HFWR]

A lot of us here have one also. Some even have PhD's in engineering.



Is an MBA necessary to buy a Tesla?

"He has a PhD, an MA, a BA, and is a BMF besides..."

Cheech and Chong

 

[Texas Proud]

AFAIK remote start can be added after market to almost any modern automatic transmission car. My dad had one added to his Odyssey years ago, so I'm sure a Pilot could be done as well. As far as the gas vs. electric use, it seems really odd to say you're willing to drive all around in a gas car, but not let it idle with the A/C on. It's just a small part of the whole gas vs. electric trade off.

I always use one of those cheap fold up reflective shields for my front window. You can also tint your windows after market. When I lived in Austin I thought it was worthwhile to do this for my son's used Mitsu Galant. It's a whole lot cheaper than buying a new Tesla and goes a pretty long way to addressing the issue.


Edited to add: a quick google search of remote car start system shows those that can be started from your phone.

Yea... it is the LBYM in me that would not do it...

I looked up and saw one from Honda for $278 plus installation... but did not work with a phone... (BTW, I am cheap and do not use my phone data... it is always off)....

Sure, not a lot of gas, but it is still wasting gas... with an electric you are only cooling down or heating the car...


I just looked and the 2016 has this option on high end.... but it only works from 60 yards or closer...



Bottom line, the cost is not worth the benefit IMO... BTW, I would want it in my Elantra as that is the one I drive the most...

 

[Ronstar]

Talked to my buddy yesterday - his wife has the new self driving model. He said that she uses the self driving feature a lot on the interstate. But it has the tendency to want to take an exit if the car in front of her exits.

 

[RunningBum]

Talked to my buddy yesterday - his wife has the new self driving model. He said that she uses the self driving feature a lot on the interstate. But it has the tendency to want to take an exit if the car in front of her exits.

That's yet an extra software add-on cost if you want the feature that keeps driving!