Why not drive a Tesla?

[Whisper66]

There seems to be a lot of comments from people that have never driven and certainly owned one. Is there anyone here that regrets buying a tesla due to range, inconvenience or other?

One can always find some "regreters" but I sincerely hope that the vast majority who plunked down the big bucks required for a Tesla has studied their drawbacks enough up front to be happy with them.

I have been quite interested in this discussion of both sides of the topic. Have found that I personally would never spend that kind of money on something with the compromises discussed within this thread. I'll wait until the technology, build quality and country recharging infrastructure is further developed before I consider them again.

Thanks for the good discussion by all.

 

[RunningBum]

Let's all keep in mind that it's a car, not a religion. Be nice to each other.

That's fine, I'll stop posting to this thread. I apologize for the "king of the oversell" name calling, but not for challenging the partial truths, especially since none of my challenges turned out to be unsubstantiated. Nobody is served by overhype. But I'll leave it to the smart readers here to judge for themselves what is true, and what is kinda true, if you stretch it the right way.

 

[Music Lover]

That was me. I only did that because another user (Texas Proud) challenged me! But in reality, this was a reasonable comparison for me personally, because my wife and I needed a larger car when we were expecting our first child back in 2012. A minivan or SUV was what we were looking at before deciding on a Model S. And to justify the extraordinary purchase cost, I did months of agonizing calculations based on many assumptions and guesswork of costs for the next decade. At the time, my most conservative estimates still projected the Model S to be the costlier option, but not by much. So, it was decided that spending more money on the car itself (considering the enhanced driving experience and luxury components) rather than the expendable fuel would be better use of money.

Of course, the best use of money would mean buying one of the many available $25k minivans on the market instead dropping $80k+ on a Tesla or $50k on a Pilot.

 

[braumeister]

There seems to be a lot of comments from people that have never driven and certainly owned one.

Is there anyone here that regrets buying a tesla due to range, inconvenience or other?

I think a great many people here would LOVE to own a Tesla. I'm one of them.

But for many of us, it's just not practical for one or more good reasons. So comments intended to justify buying one are really irrelevant and can provoke some backlash. Sometimes that backlash can be unnecessarily heated, which is a shame, but it was provoked to some degree.

 

[Bestwifeever]

A lot of people here could afford that car without feeling the need to justify why--it seems like a work of technological art based on the several I see in my town and art is in the eye of the beholder. If you want a Tesla, just get it and enjoy it. Like a boat, or an airplane. But after all, the thread title is "Why not drive a Tesla" and although maybe not the OP's intent, that leading wording elicits a negative answer in "Here's why I don't want to drive a Tesla...." Plenty of undefensive threads here about the joys of Tesla (I think Tim59 posted to one).

 

[audreyh1]

I think a great many people here would LOVE to own a Tesla. I'm one of them.

We would too. It doesn't make sense right now given our lifestyle, but there definitely could be one in the future.

And if I can afford a Tesla, I'm never going to worry that it costs 2x-4x or more other cars. One can always find a cheaper car, it doesn't mean you have to buy the cheapest.

The appeal to me is the superior handling and quiet of the machine. I have ridden in one, so I saw first hand what a lovely car it is. Oh - is it a green vehicle? That's a bonus.

 

[NW-Bound]

Should I start a thread on why one does not eat "truffled goose foie gras" and see what responses it elicits ?

No, I am not crazy about foie gras, and do not care if I never eat it again, but many are passionate about it. If it costs less, I may eat more, but have no reason to pay for the high price. The fact is that I like regular pedestrian pâté and terrine much more.

By the way, the above variety of foie gras was the most expensive I saw at the restaurant in Paris; duck foie gras is less expensive. They will sell you a small tin to take home for 80 euros.

But I do care about cognac. Before coming to visit the town of Cognac, I told my wife I would not lug any bottle back. But I broke down when they touted a bottle of a blend that was not available in the US. Most likely just a marketing ploy. What was worse was my wife encouraging me to get it, in order to share with my son and son-in-law later. It's the most expensive bottle I ever bought. No, not Louis XIII Cognac or anything like that. That's for people of real means, like Danmar.

 

[audreyh1]

Should I start a thread on why one does not eat "truffled goose foie gras" and see what responses it elicits ?

No, I am not crazy about foie gras, and do not care if I never eat it again, but many are passionate about it. If it costs less, I may eat more, but have no reason to pay for the high price. I like regular pedestrian pâté and terrine much more.

By the way, the above variety of foie gras was the most expensive I saw at the restaurant in Paris; duck foie gras is less expensive. They will sell you a small tin to take home for 80 euros.

I bet you ate plenty of foie gras on your trip!

 

[Chuckanut]

FWIW, I have followed Mr. Musk over the years, and have concluded that his power source for all these electric cars in the long run is going to be the sun. IIRC, he once called the sun a 'giant fusion reactor pouring energy onto the Earth every day'.

Of course, the sun only shines during the day. Maybe that is why Mr. Musk is into the battery business? And there are other ways being developed to store solar power for later use.

I have no idea if Mr. Musk's plans will work out, though I do think his accomplishments earn him some serious consideration that he might be right. Time will tell.

 

[NW-Bound]

I bet you ate plenty of foie gras on your trip!

No, not as much as you think. As mentioned, I am not crazy about it.

FWIW, I have followed Mr. Musk over the years, and have concluded that his power source for all these electric cars in the long run is going to be the sun. (I believe he once called the sun a 'giant fusion reactor pouring energy onto the Earth every day'.

Of course, the sun only shines during the day. Maybe that is why Mr. Musk is into the battery business? And there are other ways being developed to store solar power for later use.

I have no idea if Mr. Musk's plans will work out, though I do think his accomplishments earn him some serious consideration that he might be right. Time will tell.

I love solar energy. The Chinese are already producing solar panels so cheaply, it makes my head spin.

We still need cheap batteries with a long life. Eventually, someone doing battery research will come up with a new design. Then, the Chinese will step in to produce it in large quantities.

 

[Ready]

I would have to believe that eventually Tesla will offer solar panels on the roof of the car for continuous daytime charging, which if it works well could offer theoretically unlimited driving range.

 

[NW-Bound]

I would have to believe that eventually Tesla will offer solar panels on the roof of the car for continuous daytime charging, which if it works well could offer theoretically unlimited driving range.

No. If it worked, car makers would have done it already. Or some tinkerers would have done it.

A solar panel that fits on a car roof will produce about 1500Wh if the car is parked all day in the sun. That's good for 5 miles of driving for a day of sitting. Usually, it's a lot less than 1500Wh.

 

[audreyh1]

I would have to believe that eventually Tesla will offer solar panels on the roof of the car for continuous daytime charging, which if it works well could offer theoretically unlimited driving range.

Tesla SolarCity has already developed solar roof shingles.

DH says Chevy Volt has roof solar panels.

 

[Ronstar]

No.

A solar panel that fits on a car roof will produce about 1500Wh if the car is parked all day in the sun. That's good for 5 miles of driving for a day of sitting. Usually, it's a lot less than 1500Wh.

What about wireless transmission of solar power to Teslas from roadside solar panels?

 

[NW-Bound]

What about wireless transmission of solar power to Teslas from roadside solar panels?

I have seen it mentioned, but have not seen any details.

 

[Gumby]

Kill two birds with one stone -- install carports with solar panels on the roof. Keeps the car cool and helps charge it.

 

[Texas Proud]

Of course, the best use of money would mean buying one of the many available $25k minivans on the market instead dropping $80k+ on a Tesla or $50k on a Pilot.

Well, my drive out price for a nice 4X4 Pilot was less than $35K.... I could have gotten one for much less than $30K if I wanted to give stuff up...


I do not think you can buy a minivan for $25K before taxes etc...

SUVs and minivans are about the same price with the same options...

But he says total costs are similar... I cannot challenge him on that since gas, electricity and miles driven are much different than for me... for me it is not even close.... but then again I need a vehicle to tow a boat and a Tesla does not work...

 

[W2R]

My 2 cents, probably outstandingly unpopular....

Am I the only one who does not care about any stinkin' car? It's just transportation.

And talk about "green", a while back I started a thread that described a car that was far greener than one with the silly "ludicrous" acceleration mode.

See: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/car-to-solve-us-energy-problems-44457.html.

If "green" is what we want, then use tax money to subsidize smaller cars, not to support drag racing out in the streets.

Another way to support "green" (if it is consistent with one's desires), is to choose to live in a neighborhood with everything close by, like F and I do. You could just be driving 3,000-4,000 miles/year, instead of 10,000-20,000. That's less money spent on gas and maintenance. Also, even if the neighborhood is a little pricier, not having to spend $100K+ on a Tesla can make it a more affordable choice.

Honestly who wants to spend their retirement driving so much? Sure, driving USED to be fun, but that was back when cars had less electronics and were more fun to drive. Also, with all the crazy people on the road today? I'd rather just live close to everything, not spend so much time driving, and avoid the lunatics. Next time you are out driving about, look at what the other drivers are doing, and think about it. You can enjoy retirement more AND be all "greenie" if you want to.

 

[MichaelB]

+1@W2R. What's wrong with walking. I would much rather live in the city and walk to nearby shops.

If I could have a Tesla I'd take it in a nanosecond. Most of my driving is long distance, so it's not a viable for us. I think Tesla appeals to conspicuous consumers and those who aspire to a greener lifestyle, which is why it has such a high share of heart and mind. Conspicuously Green.

 

[ERD50]

I would have to believe that eventually Tesla will offer solar panels on the roof of the car for continuous daytime charging, which if it works well could offer theoretically unlimited driving range.

As NW-Bound mentioned, no it really does not make sense, solar panels just don't produce enough power at that size. Even if they advanced to the impossible to attain 100% efficiency (which is probably about 5x better than what NW-Bound used in his estimate, I didn't reverse engineer his numbers).

And then it gets worse. The panels cannot be oriented at the correct angle to the sun and be mobile. And cars are often in the shade. And the panel adds weight tot he car, lowering miles per kWh. Nope, not gonna happen, laws of physics just won't allow it (maybe for a very large area but very low weight, single passenger type vehicle, in the desert, or something extreme).

...
DH says Chevy Volt has roof solar panels.

They aren't for powering the car. It is to run a fan to keep the air circulated in hot weather, to reduce the A/C load when you do get to the car. A fan is just moving air, so low power required.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

There seems to be a lot of comments from people that have never driven and certainly owned one.

Is there anyone here that regrets buying a tesla due to range, inconvenience or other?

Totally irrelevant.

I don't have to own a product to understand and discuss certain facts about it.

For several reasons, I'm just not interested in purchasing one (but I am interested in the technology, the car, and separating fact from fiction). One of the reasons I wouldn't buy one, is though I rarely drive long trips, I just can't personally see spending that much and even potentially being limited due to the timing and route of a trip I might decide to take.

Because of that, I wouldn't buy one, so I would never complain about range.

And I assume the buyers of a Tesla are well aware of the range, and accept it, since they did buy one. So they are unlikely to complain. This shouldn't be a surprise, and it doesn't add any credence to anything.

It's a little like asking the people who bought red cars if they like the color red for a car. Close to tautological.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

As NW-Bound mentioned, no it really does not make sense, solar panels just don't produce enough power at that size. Even if they advanced to the impossible to attain 100% efficiency (which is probably about 5x better than what NW-Bound used in his estimate, I didn't reverse engineer his numbers)...

I tried to be generous in my quick estimate. And indeed I was off by a factor of 2.

Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) tested a solar roof for a Prius, and said that "the five hours of good sunlight the car sees on an average day would give it an electrical output of at most 0.825 kilowatt-hours".

Using the typical 300Wh/mile of energy consumption of EVs, that means a day out in a good sun gets you 825/300 = 2.75 miles.

See: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/410454/does-car-mounted-solar-make-sense/

Here is a car that can run continuously on its onboard solar panel, while the sun is out that is. Sorry, this car has no AC. Can't spare any power for that. And there's no room for your grocery bag.

.

Kill two birds with one stone -- install carports with solar panels on the roof. Keeps the car cool and helps charge it.

I have been waiting to see Walmart and shopping malls putting up solar covered parking for customers. No, I do not expect to get free charging while shopping. I get to park in the shade, while they get electricity to sell. Both win.

As simple as this concept is, the fact that it has not happened yet leads me to think that the economics have not worked out. Businessmen are not stupid, and they would not give up a sure chance to make money, if this were so simple.

 

[ls99]

I have never driven one let alone own one, nor will I ever, for reasons I described earlier. Having 15 years of hands on experience in electric locomotion, maintaining a fleet of electric passenger carrying trains, does help in dissuading me from having anything to do with pure electrically powered cars.

What fascinates me most is someone defending the gizmo ad nauseum without being on Tesla's payroll, or being part of a marketing group on Tesla's account. But maybe they are just the ultimate fan. ERD50's fact checking is fun to read...

 

[braumeister]

I have been waiting to see Walmart and shopping malls putting up solar covered parking for customers. No, I do not expect to get free charging while shopping. I get to park in the shade, while they get electricity to sell. Both win.

It's certainly being done.
The Cincinnati Zoo has solar panels mounted above its main parking lot that provide shade for the cars and generate over 1.5 megawatts for about 20% of the zoo's power. The largest publicly accessible installation of its type in the country, or at least it was a few years ago when it was installed.

 

[midwestguy]

As I said most people buying Tesla's for economic reasons. For this , they would buy a Prius or Nissan Leaf. People may try to offset some cost by savings but it's hard to justify $100,000

The acceleration, smoothness and handling make it just an incredible joy to ride. This along with the incredible technology , including autopilot makes it not It really compare to any other car.

My boss that only drives and loves Acura cars and recently bought a new one, said that driving my tesla has ruined him for life. He tells people not to drive my car or they will hate what they have

So saying this is the same as saying I don't need to own a red car to not like one is incredibly silly.