Young adults and locus of motivation

[SecondCor521]

Hi all,

First, thanks to another member here for their comments on this topic in a PM. I thought they were good comments. Since then, I've had further thoughts on this topic and wanted to seek multiple opinions.

It seems to me that healthy young adults switch from external motivation to internal motivation. Typically somewhere between age 15 and 25, and sometimes never.

This switch can happen earlier or later than parents would prefer. It can happen for all sorts of different reasons - a desire to earn money, or a desire to not be homeless, or a desire to get married and support a spouse, or a desire to have a good career and earning potentil.

Often when this switch has not happened or might happen towards the later ages, the student may be of college age and may be attending college. But the lack of internal motivation results in various sub-optimal outcomes such as: dropping out of college, withdrawing from classes, bad grades, depression, etc. In fact, these sorts of things happened to me and to two of my three kids. (The third is graduating high school and plans to start college in the fall.)

I am interested in why this happens and whether there are ways for a parent to induce this transition.

Theories I am aware of include:

1. It just happens as a result of overall maturity and development (possibly brain development), and will typically happen naturally and organically around 18 to 23 in most cases.

2. It can be induced by external demands when much is expected, such as when young soldiers go off to war or join the military and go to boot camp.

3. It occurs when the parents let go and stop trying to control their kids' lives. The kids respond with "Oh, I'm in charge and responsible? OK, then off I go!"

There may be other theories.

I would be interested to hear of any other theories. I would be specifically interested in what effective and healthy things your parents did that may have induced or accelerated or resulted in you developing internal motivation. Alternatively, I would like to know if you like bacon.

Thank you.

 

[rodi]

I'm struggling with this with my teenagers right now. The college freshman has informed me he may not want to go to college in the fall. Ok. Normally I'd tell him to get a job... but that's not so easy in this market. I have to figure out what message to give him this week - he takes his last final for the semester on Friday. The high school junior has more motivation but is also expressing a downsizing of his college plans... talking about preferring a junior college path. (Which I'm fine with) Unlike his older brother, he is bummed he can't get a job this summer, because he was planning to. He likes having cash to take his girlfriend out. As of now they don't spend money because we parents agree they must stay 10 feet apart in our backyard or her backyard.

My personal story is a mixed bag... I didn't want to go college straight out of high school and didn't want to live at home... So I got a job and moved out. Went to college a few years later. I was much more motivated to do well in college knowing that without a degree the jobs were pretty crappy. So my lack of motivation to go straight to college was a good decision in the long run.

I've told my kids that after HS graduation the choice is job or school or a combo... but this pandemic has changed the math.... When stores/restaurants/etc open back up the original plan will be play and I'll start telling them that again.

 

[MuirWannabe]

I’ll be following this thread. Interesting topic.

For my daughters it was no problem. They had natural motivation to succeed. For my son it’s another matter entirely. He seems to have little to no motivation.

I’d say I definitely don’t think the third option you list has merit.

Lack of motivation for my son comes from severe social anxiety and what I think is undiagnosed depression. Mixed with addiction in the form of alcoholism. For many years I tried to encourage, cajole, shame, criticize, scold, and do anything else to move the dial within him. None of it worked. Now, for years I’ve pretty much backed off entirely. He’s 24 now. But the result is no different. Regardless of what I do, from nagging to ignoring, it makes no difference. His lack of motivation and action to move his life forward in any meaningful or positive direction remains. I’m sick about it, but all I can do is pray for him and love him within the context he lives.

He was furloughed in the early days of Covid shutdowns. He went on UI and quickly figured out that he’s making more unemployed than when he was working. He hasn’t lifted a finger to job search since he made this realization. I’m sick about it but just observe from a distance and hope for the best for him. I read the new stimulus proposal from Democrats proposes extra $600/week through January. I hope that doesn’t happen. If it does my son is effectively retired for a long while.

 

[REWahoo]

...we parents agree they must stay 10 feet apart in our backyard or her backyard.

Where was this pandemic when my daughters were in high school....

 

[aja8888]

Where was this pandemic when my daughters were in high school....

Yeah, that would have been a big help when we were raising two beautiful redheaded daughters!

 

[aja8888]

Oh, I grew up immensely when I received my draft notice in 1964 which quickly led to the military way of life for the next few years.

 

[ocdokie]

My experience was "induced by external demands." My parents made clear to all 7 of us kids that when we reached age 18, we were on our own. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Somehow, all of us survived -- 3 joined the military, and the rest of us got various jobs.

 

[Chuckanut]

Unlike his older brother, he is bummed he can't get a job this summer, because he was planning to. He likes having cash to take his girlfriend out. As of now they don't spend money because we parents agree they must stay 10 feet apart in our backyard or her backyard.

Parents+Coronovirus vs young horrormones? No doubt the ultimate battle between the irresistible force and the immovable object. Which will win? This would make an interesting study. You must keep us informed.

 

[Walt34]

IUnlike his older brother, he is bummed he can't get a job this summer, because he was planning to. He likes having cash to take his girlfriend out. As of now they don't spend money because we parents agree they must stay 10 feet apart in our backyard or her backyard.

That's a pretty strong incentive for him to be creative in finding/creating a job. When I was in HS an incentive to working in a gas station (back when attendants pumped the gas for you) was... earning money to take my girlfriend out. That employment opportunity is of course closed now, but maybe starting a lawn mowing business? I did that too before getting the gas station job, which was year-round and much steadier work.

 

[Scrapr]

I’d say I definitely don’t think the third option you list has merit.

Lack of motivation for my son comes from severe social anxiety and what I think is undiagnosed depression. Mixed with addiction in the form of alcoholism. For many years I tried to encourage, cajole, shame, criticize, scold, and do anything else to move the dial within him. None of it worked. Now, for years I’ve pretty much backed off entirely. He’s 24 now. But the result is no different. Regardless of what I do, from nagging to ignoring, it makes no difference. His lack of motivation and action to move his life forward in any meaningful or positive direction remains. I’m sick about it, but all I can do is pray for him and love him within the context he lives.

My boy sounds a lot by your boy. He's 24 also. On his way to alcoholism. Living w/Grandma. He did get laid off in the first part of Covid shut downs. But found a security job a short while later. He likes the security jobs. I think it's the autonomy of it. But it doesn't pay all that well.

We have had a rocky relationship but I'm trying not to be judgemental and telling him what he "needs to do". His Mom passed about a year ago and she said he was half baked. In the cooking sense not the pot sense. He was in bad shape when she was diagnosed but has turned it around and is doing much better. I'm in the space that I just want to love him and he can make his own way in the world. I really wish his Mom was here. She really helped him in a way that I can't

 

[HI Bill]

Hmmm...I went to college because I didn't want to work right away. And I wanted to have some earning potential beyond minimum wage. I wanted to escape my parents and their house. I wanted independence. I wanted FI. I wanted never to be homeless. Growing up during the emergence of AIDS and the cold war, I apparently had lots of fears. Getting an education, obtaining solid employment, and becoming FI were ways of helping me to stave off that fear. I don't really get those who have no income, no prospects, and no security, and do nothing about it. But as others have said, I don't really think parents can force 'responsibility' or independence on teens. They either want it, recognize the benefits, or not.

 

[ER Eddie]

I am interested in why this happens and whether there are ways for a parent to induce this transition.

Theories I am aware of include:

1. It just happens as a result of overall maturity and development (possibly brain development), and will typically happen naturally and organically around 18 to 23 in most cases.

2. It can be induced by external demands when much is expected, such as when young soldiers go off to war or join the military and go to boot camp.

3. It occurs when the parents let go and stop trying to control their kids' lives. The kids respond with "Oh, I'm in charge and responsible? OK, then off I go!"

There may be other theories.

I would be interested to hear of any other theories.

Ok, well the first thing I notice is that all of the theories above are themselves external explanations. The first is "nature," the second is external demands, and the third is what the parents do.

You're missing the main causal factor. The ultimate determinant of whether a person makes that shift -- and it's a process, not really a shift -- is that person. Their personality. Their choices. Their character. The things they choose to fill their minds with. The books they decide to read or not read. The people they hang out with. The social media they choose to access. Their own thoughts and reflections. Their values. How they choose to spend time. Whether they even bother to consider these questions.

Individual development isn't a matter of figuring out the right external inputs to get the result you want. That's looking at it from the outside in. It's an inside job. I'm not saying external factors are irrelevant -- of course not -- but individual development is primarily and ultimately a matter of individual choices, individual responsibility, individual personality/character.

Is there anything you can do as a parent to help that along? Sure, lots of things. You've probably either done or not done most of them by now -- encourage reflection, independent thought, not joining the crowd, not bowing to peer pressure, reading widely, questioning yourself, taking responsibility, holding yourself accountable, avoiding blame and resentment, etc.

But ultimately it's about him. His choices, his responsibility.

 

[Bamaman]

Let me add #4 on that list:

Marijuana and/or illegal drugs removes all desires to improve one's place in life.

Our son lived from age 18 until age 40 in a drug induced haze. And it took a third wife to motivate him to stop that lifestyle.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

What a timely thread. Our oldest child has become more difficult in the last year, lying to us about completing his school work and other responsibilities. We are out of ideas of how to handle this and are considering an expensive boarding school. He will not grow up and we dont know how to help him. We fear the natural consequences if he doesn't. If it works it will be worth it. Thank goodness there was extra room in the budget.

Our younger son is years ahead in maturity. Nature or nurture?

 

[RobbieB]

The goal has to be your own, not what someone else wants you to do.

 

[Beststash]

Let me add #4 on that list:
Marijuana and/or illegal drugs removes all desires to improve one's place in life.

I wouldn't include Marijuana in that statement. Some of the most creative and successful people I have known have smoked the evil weed for decades. I do think there is a time and place for everything. You cannot be a stoner at work any more than you can be a drunk and be successful.

I do think "birds of a feather, flock together". If you surround yourself with motivated people you will more likely be motivated yourself.

 

[MRG]

The goal has to be your own, not what someone else wants you to do.

+1

You can not fix anyone but yourself and only for your reason.

I watched my DF blame everything and everyone for what he considered my DB's failures in life. He never stopped to appreciate the unique gifts my brother had. He spent a lot of time shaming him for thinking differently. Unbridled criticism never fixes anyone it teaches them they're worthless. My DF could have learned a lot from my brother's suicide but he didn't.

There's worse things that your kid doing things differently or using some cannibis.

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah.

I bought my first pound of pot when I was 16. Been smokin ever since. In college I did uppers, downers, LSD, cocaine, peyote and mushrooms. Anything I could get my hands on. In addition to pounds of pot.

Yup that's me, BS Electrical Engineering, class of 1978, now retired multi millionaire.

My parents always encouraged my interests.

 

[DrRoy]

I had academic discipline very early on. 3.9 GPA in HS and college (BSChE). My two sons, not so much. The older one always struggled with his classes and bombed the first semester of college. He finally ended up in the Air Force, but only for the initial tour. He did successfully learn to repair avionics in F16's, so that seemed very encouraging. After that he started college in Computer Science but quit after two years. The younger one was very smart and initially got good grades from sheer intellect. When it got to where real work was required, he was not into that. He also started (community) college, but would just not complete anything that was challenging. Eventually they ended up working for a cleaning services company and are considered essential workers, so they have a steady paycheck, and share an apartment. The younger has actually become a first level supervisor. They pay their way, but have very little savings and no benefits. They could be doing so much better, but were not motivated to do more.

 

[Amethyst]

Mr. A. says he sort of wandered through high school, did good enough work to get by. His eyesight kept him out of the military. Graduated at 18, worked in a warehouse for 2 years (he still knows how to lift from the knees, not the back), lived with his mom. One day, some younger friends said, "Hey, we're going to [state university], you should go too!" Talked to his mom, who came up with enough money for one semester at state university. [She died just before he and I met, or I would have had questions for her].
At age 20, Mr. A. suddenly discovers he's a natural scholar. It's like a wizard pulled a magic switch in his brain. Graduates with straight A's and a full ride for grad school.
So, where was that hiding for 20 years? Was it brain chemistry? Fear of working in a warehouse forever? He inclines toward the latter.
Oh, I forgot: He also was motivated not to have to ask his mom for money for 2nd semester. As long as he kept his grades high enough, college was now free! Bet that doesn't happen these days.

 

[FIREd]

My parents were very much hands off and so I had to learn very early on to be independent and self-motivated to succeed. I was a straight A student in school, left home at 18, graduated from a good college, and moved to the US at age 23 to attend graduate school and start a promising scientific career. All this with no one pushing me. Actually, I even had to fight my parents who were not keen on higher education and absolutely opposed to me moving abroad. Once in the "real" world though, my motivation dropped. There was a sense that I worked hard to end up in a boring (though well paid) career with little job security. I disliked my 9-5 job with endless meetings led by people who liked to hear themselves talk a bit too much. I really could not see myself living on someone else's schedule for 40 years and having to beg for a few days of free time once a year.

That's when I discovered the concept of FIRE. I set myself a FIRE goal, ironed out a plan to get there, and put it into action right away. Suddenly, I was super motivated again because I had a worthwhile goal to work toward. So here I am, 46 years old and jobless (retired for you folks, but I never call myself retired IRL). Some people consider me an unmotivated loser simply because I don't aspire to a career. Yet I've achieved my goal all this same. I just yearn for a different way of life than most people.

 

[dixonge]

I'm slightly confused. OP refers often to 'motivation' but leaves things a bit vague and undefined. It appears that they are referring to 'self-motivation' or 'self-discipline', but mostly related to the generation of income. Perhaps 'taking responsibility for their own future' might be a better way of stating it? Not sure.

My own journey on this path was convoluted and never certain. I started working at the age of 14 because we were poor and I wanted my own money for things. I attended college mainly based on external expectations. I got married way too early and had to drop out and go back to work full-time. I changed jobs frequently. At 26 I got a vasectomy right before finding out the wife was pregnant with our third. The marriage did not last (big surprise) and I spent a couple of years working minimum wage, living with my brother and doing drugs when I could afford it. Survived a drug-related home invasion robbery at gunpoint. Later moved back in with parents.

THEN I developed some internal motivation! Went back to working in offices doing word processing for temp agencies. Remarried. Eventually transitioned to I.T. and desktop support. At around the age of 50 I discovered that I had been living my life with undiagnosed ADHD. This explained a lot in the preceding paragraphs LOL

My story doesn't really fit neatly into a discussion of 'locus of motivation.'

 

[eytonxav]

I think part of it is a maturing brain and capability to think rationally and independently, but it is certainly influenced by external motivators along the way (eg societies mores and expectations).

Spending some time in military service might help accelerate the process in some individuals.

 

[Chuckanut]

One of my education classes was in Psychology. Back then we learned about Locus of Control. Two friends spend an hour together to study for a test. They both get an 'A'. The one with an external locus of control says "The teacher must like me". The one with an internal locus of control says "All my hard work paid off".

 

[rodi]

I posted the next bit of news in a covid news thread - but it applies here too.

California state universities (CSUs, not UCs) will do 100% online courses in the fall. Older son has decided to drop out of his program and attend the jr. college. I'm ok with the decision - but I have to wonder if he made this decision because he's flunking out this semester. (Won't know for another month... He's in finals week.) He's not happy about being stuck at home... but not motivated to do anything about it.