Are Wedding Expenses Getting Out Of Control?

[Gumby]

I'll see if the mods can re-title the piece.

At your service.

 

[haha]

At your service.

Thanks very much Gumby. I really had not thought through the ageism in my original title, which is something that I emphatically do not believe. I think my sons for example are more hard working and sober than I was at their ages, and the same is true of most of their friends. They may spend more freely though, but that may be because they have more to spend than I did. I had little savings until well into my thirties. And, this is a small example of high earning to very very high earning young men and women, and in no way gives an accurate picture of a generation, or even of a generation in their industry and in this locale.

Ha

 

[Dawg52]

She did!

I'm glad you told us, never would I have thought that.

 

[traineeinvestor]

As pessimistic and depressed as I usually am about too many people and too many countries living beyond their means, the conversation I had with a group of people from my firm on Thursday was quite uplifting:

all were in their mid 20s to late 30s (I think I was the only person over 40)

they comprised a mix of positions: secretaries, junior and mid ranking professionals and senior middle/back office

as happens in Hong Kong, the property market was discussed and this led to a discussion about investments

both of the secretaries owned their own apartments. One was saying she wanted to wait for the market to drop before she traded up to a larger home. The other was saving for the deposit on a second apartment to rent out as an investment and was complaining that she would have to wait another couple of years before she could afford the deposit

one of younger professionals said she wasn't going to buy her own place because she was saving her money to go to university to do post-grad and didn't want to have to make mortgage payments while she wasn't working

etc etc etc

Every single one of them was saving and investing - including two who came from very wealthy families.

While there are differences between generations, the anecdotal evidence makes it doubtful whether a propensity to save is one of those differences.

 

[ESRwannabe]

I don't know of anyone else in "real life" that saves/invests money like I do. The only one I have ever tried to influence is my brother. I hope that one day he will start saving for retirement. I don't want him to suffer in his old age, because he couldn't delay gratification.

For everyone else I would never discourage them from what they are doing. For one it isn't worth the effort. People are going to do what they want to do, especially when it comes to money. Second they are the engine that keeps the ball rolling. We can't all retire. Someone has to work. Someone has to do the crap jobs. I am estatic that they are volunteering to do it and I will be able to jump off the hamster wheel a decade from now when I am 45 or so.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Yeah my adult kids are so much more financially savvy than DH and I are. We threw a lovely overpriced wedding when our daughter was married (and she was most grateful and surprised that we could and would) but guess what? No one put a gun to our head to do it. It was something we wanted to do and we loved every minute of it.

I imagine Ha's cousin derived some pleasure out of his expenditure, or else he needs to develop a backbone.

 

[swampwiz]

Have a neice who was given the option of cash for a down payment on a house or spend $100,000 on a wedding. Guess which she chose...

Wow, I just posted a new thread in which part of it was a rant against the Marital Industrial Complex.

The best thing the father (OK, I realize I'm being patriarchal here) of the bride can do is loan (i.e., an official loan recorded by the clerk of court) his newly married child a sizable amount for the starter house as a 2nd, and then simply not take the payments (i.e., make a gift of the payments.) This does a few important things:

- makes it so that the gift would not be considered as community property in case his in-law becomes an ex-law

- allows the couple to be more bankruptable, so that if that should occur, the unsecured creditors would take the hit, not the gift

- allows for a better use of any means tested benefit or programs, as the loan would show up as an expense

 

[Hamlet]

Yes, the path to true adulthood and independence can be a difficult one, and there is a fairly large group of every generation that never really seems to make it.

I think parents need to be clear with their children from a fairly young age about their expectations for school, employment, etc. I think any sense of entitlement to things without effort needs to be squashed pretty quickly.

My friend's son is finishing his first year of college, and he seems to be having a hard time accepting the fact that he is going to need to work a lot of hours doing pretty tedious things to pay for it. I think my friend will be successful in prodding him into getting off his butt and finding a job, but if he isn't, at some point he will need to cut off the gravy train. I don't think children benefit from being allowed to freeload into their twenties.

My dad is experiencing this with my much younger brother (I'm 37, he's 21). He flunked out of college, and is now taking a single summer class at community college and working a part-time (under 20 hrs per week). At some point I think my dad will need to give him the boot.

Hamlet, Urchina, et al, I think your point is very well made. I have never harbored complaints about today's younger people. What I was really focused on and mislabeled was niece's ridiculous expectations about weddings, marital support, and making one's way in the world. Part of the issue I think is that she is very pretty, and has been able to do a lot of riding on her looks, though obviously she is also quite bright.

I am sure that there are many young folks who get married at the beach or at their parents' or in their own backyards, just like we did, but I do have some experience with lavish weddings in far off places that are expensive, and/or tiresome to travel to. One DIL's mother wanted them to be married in Rome. So I just said, “Where should I send your gift"? They wound up having a lovely but inexpensive wedding in a local church, and had a great reception in the garden and the church basement. It was all paid for by the bride and groom, with the groom's brother hiring the DJ and buying a huge amount of quality booze.

I'll see if the mods can re-title the piece.

Ha

 

[ikubak]

I think today if I went up to a random friend or associate and said "I don't own a cell phone because they are too darn expensive and we just can't afford it anymore", most people would not blink an eye. If I would have tried that 3 years ago, the response probably would have been "what you can't afford $100 a month? I thought you were doing well."

So can I assume from this that you don't actually have a cell phone? I don't have one either, and I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who doesn't have one other than myself. I love the looks I get when people ask me for my cell number and I tell them I don't have one. What? Isn't a home number and a work number enough? I don't understand how people like our student workers and entry level employees have cell phones at 50 to 100 per month and consider it a necessity rather than a convenience. I know there are people who "need" a cell phone. My wife has one for her work and it truly is a necessity, but at least Megacorp is paying for it. She says when she quits working, the cell phone is history.

 

[Purron]

Yeah my adult kids are so much more financially savvy than DH and I are. We threw a lovely overpriced wedding when our daughter was married (and she was most grateful and surprised that we could and would) but guess what? No one put a gun to our head to do it. It was something we wanted to do and we loved every minute of it.

I imagine Ha's cousin derived some pleasure out of his expenditure, or else he needs to develop a backbone.

How lovely you gave your daughter a beautiful wedding. What makes it even more lovely is her attitude - one of gratitude instead of entitlement. That's the key difference between her lavish wedding and the one Ha described.

 

[chris2008]

DH and I had made all the arrangements acc. to our own budget. After the event my parents told us that they would take over the cost of the event, being the parents of the bride. I had no idea they would.
We just wanted a reasonable, nice location and party. Everybody liked it and had a lot of fun.

My rule (after 25 happy years of marriage and being a lawyer): never pay more for a wedding than for a divorce.

 

[audreyh1]

I think weddings is one of those things that rather obviously separate the LYBMers from the spendthrifts.

Some folks (spendthrifts) get all caught up in the excesses that are strongly encouraged by the wedding industry, and perhaps to some extent social one-up-manship. These people act as if it is the most important thing they could ever spend money on and are willing to go into ridiculous debt or drain their parents savings. All in the name of some glorified ?

Others (LYBMers) look that the ridiculous spending that goes on in many weddings, and quickly figure out that it's a poor investment. They figure out ways to celebrate the occasion that do not break the bank and focus on getting the most bang for the buck.

I think the wedding very much shows how the couple are going to handle finances for the rest of their lives (unless one set of parents has taken over and is calling all the shots along with the bankroll).

Audrey

 

[Cattusbabe]

I remarried into a family that has a few parasites and it has given me an eye opening perspective on giving. In order for this relationship to go on you need a willing host and a willing parasite. The parasite part is easy, but the revelation for me is that a lot of the hosts really get a lot of enjoyment from their side of the deal. They can control the lives of the parasite(s) somewhat, they get to be the big shot who has the extra money to spare and the status that goes with that, and they feel good about themselves because they have "helped" someone out.

Me - I'm the cheap b@st@rd that "has all his money invested", unavailable for "loans".

You hit the nail squarely on the head. A big thumbs up.

 

[Hamlet]

I think most of the younger generation has made the leap to having just a cell phone. They've decided that it is the home phone that is unneccessary.

I'm with them. I haven't had anything but a cell phone for about 6 years.

So can I assume from this that you don't actually have a cell phone? I don't have one either, and I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who doesn't have one other than myself. I love the looks I get when people ask me for my cell number and I tell them I don't have one. What? Isn't a home number and a work number enough? I don't understand how people like our student workers and entry level employees have cell phones at 50 to 100 per month and consider it a necessity rather than a convenience. I know there are people who "need" a cell phone. My wife has one for her work and it truly is a necessity, but at least Megacorp is paying for it. She says when she quits working, the cell phone is history.

 

[FIREd]

Our wedding, in 2001, ended up costing upward of $25,000. That was quite a lot of money for us. DW and I are simple people and we wanted a simple wedding but the in-laws pushed for a fancy wedding in a prime location. They are the one who pushed up the costs at all levels (wedding dress, food, location, flowers, photographers, guest lists, etc...). They invited many of their friends and business acquaintances whom we had never met and kinda turned the whole thing into a PR operation for their own benefit if you ask me. Of course, they gave us some money to help defray part of the costs of the added extravagance and bloated guest list, but DW and I still ended up paying more than we would have liked out of pocket.

 

[Purron]

In 1974 DH and I got married in my parent's living room. Afterwards we went to dinner with the immediate family and a few friends. The restaurant was a local "Steak and Ale" type place. There were about 15 people there. I think the total bill was about $400. No regrets.

 

[Spanky]

Our cost of the wedding back in 86 was less than $1,000 (or $2,033 in 2011 dollars). That included a church ceremony, dinner and dance for 25 people.

 

[Bestwifeever]

In 1974 DH and I got married in my parent's living room. Afterwards we went to dinner with the immediate family and a few friends. The restaurant was a local "Steak and Ale" type place. There were about 15 people there. I think the total bill was about $400. No regrets.

I love this story--and your wedding was twice as lavish as DH's and mine in 1972. We were married in the church's living room with 6 guests but we did invite the minister and his wife to the dinner afterward so I think that bumped up the reception costs to maybe $150 (several cocktails were involved as DH had just finished his Army service two days before so it was quite the celebration ).

 

[haha]

Of course, they gave us some money to help defray part of the costs of the added extravagance and bloated guest list, but DW and I still ended up paying more than we would have liked out of pocket.

Boy this puts a different spin on this whole thing. That would really annoy me!

When DEXW and I married I wanted to do it in the LA County Courthouse. My brides parents nixed that, but they did pay for the modifications that they wanted. I was maybe going too far.

Ha

 

[ESRwannabe]

I think most of the younger generation has made the leap to having just a cell phone. They've decided that it is the home phone that is unneccessary.

I'm with them. I haven't had anything but a cell phone for about 6 years.

That's what I do. Also my employer pays for it. Actually I make a small profit off of it, because the extra pay I get for the cell phone is more than my cell phone bill... Downside is that I am on call 24-7/365.

 

[Independent]

I can't help the LBYM comment. I never tire of telling my daughters that their mother's wedding dress cost $10.75 (in 1970). I thought it looked very nice.

 

[Independent]

I'd say there have been some selfish/spoiled kids in every generation as long as there have been parents (didn't Socrates make some comments about that?) As we get richer, our kids have stuff that we never had, and they don't "appreciate it" as much as we think they should.

But I think the wedding trend is interesting. Average age at first marriage is going up. So some couples are in a position to pay more of the expense themselves. In fact, I know cases where it appears they lived together and deferred marriage just so they could have a nicer wedding.

Maybe it's watching some variation on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. Maybe it's living for "experiences".

 

[FUEGO]

So can I assume from this that you don't actually have a cell phone? I don't have one either, and I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who doesn't have one other than myself. I love the looks I get when people ask me for my cell number and I tell them I don't have one. What? Isn't a home number and a work number enough? I don't understand how people like our student workers and entry level employees have cell phones at 50 to 100 per month and consider it a necessity rather than a convenience. I know there are people who "need" a cell phone. My wife has one for her work and it truly is a necessity, but at least Megacorp is paying for it. She says when she quits working, the cell phone is history.

I do technically own a cell phone. It is a freebie from tracfone. I get a new free one every two months and keep the same phone number by hooking it up to my google voice account ph number. But the phone stays in the glove compartment in the car and I forget to charge the battery every week so it is dead half the time. I look at it as an emergency phone in case my 10 year old car dies on the side of the road with me and my two young children in it. Cheaper than getting a more reliable car. I'm still holding out that my employer will provide me with a free or subsidized cell phone to make me a more productive employee.

I do have a land line (well VOIP via vonage) and a cheapo prepaid tracfone for DW that runs about $70 a year (keeping it activated keeps me in free phones). Of the young people I know, at least three quarters still have land lines I would say. Typically as the family gets larger (marriage then kids), the need/desire for a landline increases. Landlines still have the best call quality and least dropped calls (in general), and unlimited talk time for a low price. Hence the attractiveness. It also allows people to downgrade the cell service by a few hundred mins a month and save a bunch. I am the only person my age I know that doesn't actively use a cell phone (well, besides DW who uses it maybe 10 minutes a month). There are two other professional guys at work who share the company loaner cell phone but both are older.

 

[FUEGO]

They invited many of their friends and business acquaintances whom we had never met and kinda turned the whole thing into a PR operation for their own benefit if you ask me. Of course, they gave us some money to help defray part of the costs of the added extravagance and bloated guest list, but DW and I still ended up paying more than we would have liked out of pocket.

Wow, I would have been a little irritated at this if the amounts of money involved were significant. We had a significant amount of "guest list inflation" due to DW's parents making it clear that literally everyone in the local asian community and their brother was welcome, but the cost was roughly offset by cash gifts given by the additional guests. Hardly anyone at the wedding knew who we were. Very few congratulated me since they didn't know me or recognize me. I think we snuck out fairly early, not that anyone noticed!

We were tired since we had stayed up late the night before the wedding so we could go to the courthouse at 12:01 am the day of the wedding ceremony to get legally married in front of the magistrate at the county jail. Which was a little crazy until the magistrate recognized me from Boy Scouts many years earlier and went out of his way to really hook us up with a nice civil ceremony in the classiest spot available in the whole jail (or "Public Safety Annex" as I think it is called).

 

[Keim]

When I proposed my FIL to be took aside his daughter and said "I'll give you $4k to elope." Truly a thrifty man. Makes me look like a spendthrift.

We didn't elope. But we did keep our 1994 wedding to about $4k.

Put me down for one that uses a tracfone. Costs me about $100 per year. Have it primarily for coordinating with the wife on who is picking up the kids, and emergencies. Wouldn't want to use a cell any more than that. I am happy with my landline.