Equal Contributions (calling Haha)

[audreyh1]

I was always the larger bread winner in the family. I was more advanced in my career, having gotten my degree at a much earlier age than my husband who entered the military to pay for college, and then took longer to get his degree while he was working. I had more aptitude for management, and thus was on a "fast-track" career path. This was just never an issue for us. In fact, for several years before retirement, my husband went into his own consulting business which was more a part time thing, bringing in less money than before, but he worked out of the house which meant he took care of everything to do with the household. This was WONDERFUL, and significantly reduced my stress level which kept ratcheting higher at work as I my promotions continued. And I made enough that he didn't need to work, but it was also great putting what he did earn into our savings.

We had no kids so we didn't ever have who stays home to raise the kids issues.

I cringe when I see ads or attitudes that strongly imply a man's only role in family life is that of the perpetual breadwinner. That's just awful! I feel really bad for any man who's spouse or children see him that way.

But in the case of the article, it does seem that the husband is seriously neglecting his responsibilities - that he is contributing very little at all to taking care of his family. Whether or not he is required to contribute "half" financially (a red herring IMO), they have children they are raising, she'd like to help the children with college, and the family is barely scraping by on her teacher's salary. My god, it's been 5 years! It does kind of sound like the husband has decided to RE and not bother with worrying about the rest of his family. I mean - screaming and sobbing when she tries to discuss permanent work? Why should she have to be the only one working full time? Sounds like he has regressed into being a kid himself.

He probably has a bad depression from being laid off and not finding the same kind of work. But in the mean time, she's left to cope alone?

By the way the advice was totally useless. The wife can lay out the expenses and what they should be saving, etc., but it doesn't sound like the husband is motivated to deal with it at all.

Audrey

 

[haha]

But in the case of the article, it does seem that the husband is seriously neglecting his responsibilities - that he is contributing very little at all to taking care of his family. Whether or not he is required to contribute "half" financially (a red herring IMO), they have children they are raising, she'd like to help the children with college, and the family is barely scraping by on her teacher's salary. My god, it's been 5 years! It does kind of sound like the husband has decided to RE and not bother with worrying about the rest of his family. I mean - screaming and sobbing when she tries to discuss permanent work? Why should she have to be the only one working full time? Sounds like he has regressed into being a kid himself.

You are right, he certainly does not seem to be team player. One of the hazards of marriage. If someone wants to go AWOL, what's to stop them?

If you have assets or a job, they have pretty effective leverage. Lot of luck involved in marraige, as in most things.

Ha

 

[Shawn]

I was a little surprised at how hard Karen-the-advise-columnist pushed that hubby must contribute 50% of their financial needs. Would she be so firm on this if it was the wife who was under employed? I'm thinking not.....

Indeed. In fact, the double standards are illustrated in the recent thread "Alternatives to Divorce."

In this case, a husband posts that he is upset because his wife refuses to work. The overwhelming majority of responders are not supportive of the husband. Various people call him "childish," "unfair to his wife," "suggest his wife should dump him and seek 50% of his income," etc. One person even suggests that the husband is a perpetrator of domestic violence.

It is a classic double standard. When a wife is upset because her husband doesn't want to work, the wife is encouraged to divorce her "lazy bum of a husband." When a husband is upset because his wife doesn't want to work, the husband is considered an abusive jerk.

 

[haha]

It is a classic double standard. When a wife is upset because her husband doesn't want to work, the wife is encouraged to divorce her "lazy bum of a husband." When a husband is upset because his wife doesn't want to work, the husband is considered an abusive jerk.

Sure how I see it. In America, a man with good job prospects has to be real gambler to want to marry.

I understand young men- they want to have families, want to do the grown up thing. But to repeat like so many do is beyond me.

Ha

 

[TickTock]

An interesting thought; since the columnist says that each person in the marriage is responsible for half the budget, if the guy does manage to find engineering work again that pays more than her teaching salary, then she suddenly becomes an under-contributing bum, right? Which she must also have been when her husband had an engineering job, right?

I was remembering the Alternatives To Divorce and Leonardo's thread when thinking about double standards. Also, if a columnist wrote

Sometimes, women are a little like cows - you quit herding them, and they figure this means it's time to stop working and let themselves go.

there'd be about a two-nanosecond delay before hordes of screaming criticism descended.

Sometimes men are a little like horses — you quit kicking them on, and they figure this means it's time to stop and graze.

hmmm, no vomit emoticon...

Now, I'm not particularly defending this guy - he may well be a lazy bum. There's not enough info given. What I am saying is that the columnists advice [-]sucks[/-] is unhelpful.

 

[chinaco]

I have a friend that has been "downsized" several times in his career...

The old "I'll inherit it story". That is merely a response to counter his argument that you need to earn so I can retire. He wants her to work, she doesn't want to work. Of course, if she has never worked, she may be a little fearful of getting out there. She might actually like working part-time (provided the job was not stressful).


This kinda sounds like another story of one person being selfish. It seems that in any relationship, the rules of the game are set early. Once the pattern and expectations are set, it is difficult to change the game that has been established.

 

[SecondCor521]

Sure how I see it. In America, a man with good job prospects has to be a real [-]sex-crazed idiot[/-] gambler to want to marry.

There, fixed it for ya.

2Cor521

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Oddly, that objective is rarely met by that strategy.

 

[SecondCor521]

Touché.

2Cor521

 

[Hamlet]

This is a valid concern, but one that be mitigated dramatically by making sure that you look for qualities that make a good wife when you date, and not just qualities that make a good sex partner.

Think -- honesty, integrity, intelligence, financial sense, sense of humor

Financial compatibility was very high on the list of qualities that drew me to my wife. A woman that lives relatively frugally and LBHM while you date is unlikely to change that after marriage.

A woman who is drawn to a fancy car and a rolex is unlikely to be a good financial partner.

I think that most men who get into a lopsided marriage do so because they didn't think about any qualities besides how their prospective wife looked in a thong.

I am not married yet... and the above situation is one of my biggest fears. It is not how much or how little my potential wife could contribute or not.... just the attitude that goes with it. I have seen way too many relationships where the husband (sometimes the wife) is viewed as the "money maker" while the other person considers themselves on permanent vacation. If your spouse actually cares about you, and you told them you were unhappy, or you suddenly lost your job, the first reaction had better be...."What can I do to help this situation?" Rather then the attitude of "Sucks to be you... let me know when you figure something out.", and then go back to their nap....

 

[W2R]

In my opinion it is challenging to impossible to work out something as important to basic survival as one's financial attitudes and outlook, when two people must agree (both of whom are slowly changing, as we all do through life, and probably in opposite directions). I operate on the assumption that people usually aren't going to change in the ways you might like them to change.

The old way of doing things, where the man decided everything and the woman just nodded and didn't worry her pretty little head about these things, worked because her opinions were suppressed and ignored. No agreement was necessary. But in the 21st century, many women like me are not willing to live that way.

Being married is one of life's grand experiences that I would not deny anyone. But the other side of the coin is that working out honest agreements on financial matters over a lifetime is hugely difficult, and a tremendous accomplishment. I have the greatest respect for any couple who can pull this off.

As for me, well, I have no desire to re-marry at this point in life. BTDT

 

[haha]

Being married is one of life's grand experiences that I would not deny anyone. But the other side of the coin is that working out honest agreements on financial matters over a lifetime is hugely difficult, and a tremendous accomplishment. I have the greatest respect for any couple who can pull this off.

And financial matters are just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many issues that need adjusting.

I think youth brings the power and willingness to do a lot of 24-7 compromising.

At this point on my life, the attractions of matehood are not enough to make up for the psychic and physical effort involved.

Ha

 

[Khan]

And financial matters are just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many issues that need adjusting.

I think youth brings the power and willingness to do a lot of 24-7 compromising.

At this point on my life, the attractions of matehood are not enough to make up for the psychic and physical effort involved.

Ha

For me, the negatives of stress caused by constantly having to monitor everything I say and do lest I cause offense, (and by having to try to read someone's mind so I can know in advance what will cause offense in a constantly changing context) far outweighs any positives I can think of.


The Fountain of Youth is dull as paint;
Methuselah is my patron saint.
I've never been so comfortable before.
Oh, I'm so glad that I'm not young anymore.

 

[haha]

For me, the negatives of stress caused by constantly having to monitor everything I say and do lest I cause offense, (and by having to try to read someone's mind so I can know in advance what will cause offense in a constantly changing context) far outweighs any positives I can think of.

Good way to put it. I remember saying to my wife once( more or less)- "If I were your therapist and you were paying me $150/hour to carefully monitor everything I say, every look that goes over my face, I might try to do it. But I'm not a therapist, and you are not paying me. So I can't."

HA

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well, she was sort of paying you by deferring the cost of divorce.

 

[figner]

For me, the negatives of stress caused by constantly having to monitor everything I say and do lest I cause offense, (and by having to try to read someone's mind so I can know in advance what will cause offense in a constantly changing context) far outweighs any positives I can think of.

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but this is exactly the opposite of what I look for in my relationships. I far prefer to work towards being comfortable enough to say anything (and not feel like monitoring) in front of my partner, and have them do the same. If one of us gets offended, it's that person's issue and not a judgement on the other.* Of course, it's impossible to keep this in mind all the time, but I find the rewards of trying are worth it.

* That doesn't mean we don't argue or try to resolve things we disagree upon, just that we try not to make it a blame thing.

 

[haha]

Well, she was sort of paying you by deferring the cost of divorce.

LOL. I need comedy today, thanks.

Ha

 

[HFWR]

LOL. I need comedy today, thanks.

Ha

What was that commercial: Pay me now, [-]and[/-] or pay me later...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

LOL. I need comedy today, thanks.

Anytime Ha...cuz...I love you, man!

 

[W2R]

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but this is exactly the opposite of what I look for in my relationships. I far prefer to work towards being comfortable enough to say anything (and not feel like monitoring) in front of my partner, and have them do the same. If one of us gets offended, it's that person's issue and not a judgement on the other.* Of course, it's impossible to keep this in mind all the time, but I find the rewards of trying are worth it.

* That doesn't mean we don't argue or try to resolve things we disagree upon, just that we try not to make it a blame thing.

One of the things I love about not being married and not living together, is that we only get together when both of us want to. We've been in a committed relationship for years, and yet we haven't really had reason to have a knock down, drag out argument. No reason to. We get together to have fun and to enjoy sharing our lives and each others' company. Are we still in the "honeymoon phase" of this relationship, after all these years? Could be, but I am eternally optimistic.

I really do think that many people need to spend more of their time alone than they do, in order to look inside and find happiness, and to appreciate time spent with someone else.

 

[Moemg]

I hate to disagree but I think the honeymoon stage while nice is not reality . If you can be together day in and day out and are still crazy about them that is priceless !

 

[audreyh1]

Being married is one of life's grand experiences that I would not deny anyone. But the other side of the coin is that working out honest agreements on financial matters over a lifetime is hugely difficult, and a tremendous accomplishment. I have the greatest respect for any couple who can pull this off.

It's been a piece of cake for us. Of course marrying an easy going spouse helps. Mutual respect makes a lot of difference too. We just see eye-to-eye on many things which I suppose is why we got together in the first place.

Audrey

 

[Khan]

I hate to disagree but I think the honeymoon stage while nice is not reality . If you can be together day in and day out and are still crazy about them that is priceless !

Is that possible?

 

[audreyh1]

Is that possible?

yes

Audrey

 

[Moemg]

Is that possible?

Yes ,It's possible and I'm living proof !