Fidelity: Anyone here ever let them manage your money?

[haha]

Most of these big discount brokers are very good if you are clear with them. I have had a Fidelity account for maybe 35 years, and many other discount brokerage accounts also, most of which have been rolled up into the few big survivors.

IMO, if most things in our economy worked half as well as the discount brokerage business we would be very lucky consumers indeed.

For years I dealt with brokers that I had never met, in offices that I had never seen, and things including out-transfers and in-tranfers went swimmingly.

Even E*trade gives excellent customer service. I don't mind at all that someone may try to sell me, they have to live don't they?

I am not confused about my goals or the means to pursue them (notice I say pursue them, not meet them), so big deal if someone would like to divert a little cash flow to himself. Any salesperson enjoys trips to Hawaii, big bonuses, etc. I know I would.

Think how little Fidelity makes on a non-trading buy and hold fund investor, who buys mainly non-Fidelity funds. I am sure that this sort of customer is a loser in cash flow terms. I am very interested that they don't make more efforts to get some cash flow from them, or get rid of them. Maybe they feel that any good size account is better in-house than elswhere, even if it is not currently profitable. IMO we should remember that only a certain category of worker that I am too polite to identify can survive without generating some cash for the employer. And even that empoyer has employees who are quite effective at raising cash- it doesn't involve salesmanship however.

Ha

 

[FIREd]

Orchid, I feel your pain. I hate pushy salespeople. And if they bring religion into their sales pitch, as yours did, I automatically disqualify them.

In the 5 years I have been at Fidelity, I have never talked to or met with a human being there, so I can't comment on the quality of their reps. In the 6 years I have been at Vanguard, I have talked to Vanguard reps only 3 times, each time regarding administrative issues. That's how I like things. I don't need help with my investments. I don't want help with my investments. I am always very clear about that and neither Fidelity nor Vanguard has ever tried to sell me anything. My experience might have been different if I had expressed the wish to have them handle my investments. But after years spent at Ameriprise, Hell will have to freeze over before I hand over my finances to another human being.

 

[clifp]

Most of these big discount brokers are very good if you are clear with them. I have had a Fidelity account for maybe 35 years, and many other discount brokerage accounts also, most of which have been rolled up into the few big survivors.

IMO, if most things in our economy worked half as well as the discount brokerage business we would be very lucky consumers indeed.

For years I dealt with brokers that I had never met, in offices that I had never seen, and things including out-transfers and in-tranfers went swimmingly.

I agree, besides my love affair with Schwab. I've also had good experiences with Vanguard, and have been quite impressed as they dealt patiently with my mom, including a rather difficult situations with her trying to understand how to access her online account.

Even my brief experience in being a sold a managed account by the Schwab guy wasn't unpleasant.

My experiences with Fidelity while limited have also gone very well.

On many occasions, while on hold or talking to a credit card, tech support, cable company support, I've thought Schwab should get out of the brokerage business and just provide customer support for other people.

 

[Kabekew]

I have Fidelity managing one of my "buckets!" I've been running a test for just about two years now: one bucket my own active stock portfolio (buying and selling based on my own research and the various tips and articles around, and cable TV blowhards); one bucket some "best performing" mutual funds, and the third bucket the Fidelity Porfolio Advisory Service with their 1% fee on top of the fees from all their mutual funds (they just buy lots of mutual funds for your portfolio, not stocks or other investments).

These are all 100% stock comparisons, measured from the day I went all-in. (My safer investments are elsewhere in CD's and real estate (my home))!

But the results so far:

S&P 500: 40.7916%
VFINX: 40.5342% (the usual Vanguard index fund mentioned here a lot)
Personal stock portfolio: 38.0138%
"Best Performing Mutual Funds" from some Yahoo article I read in '08 (AMAGX, JMCVX, EEM): 47.8664%
Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service (after 1% commission): 43.1155%

So Fidelity has done better than the benchmark, but I found those mutual funds that did even better than them, without their 1% fee, and pretty much the same beta/risk. Maybe I was just lucky, I don't know.

I do know that doing my best finding my own stocks, listening to everything online, and everyone on MSNBC and the financial channels and the Wall Street Journal, and carefully considering all that, and applying common sense, just didn't work for me. My personal portfolio did worse than the indices, and the professionals too. Lots of wasted time!

 

[dex]

But the results so far:

S&P 500: 40.7916%
VFINX: 40.5342% (the usual Vanguard index fund mentioned here a lot)
Personal stock portfolio: 38.0138%
"Best Performing Mutual Funds" from some Yahoo article I read in '08 (AMAGX, JMCVX, EEM): 47.8664%
Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service (after 1% commission): 43.1155%

What is the start and end dates?

 

[Kabekew]

Just a follow up, my mix of the mutual funds that gave me 47.8664% return were a little by chance, based on how I happened to split it out. The individual returns over the same period were:

AMAGX: 43.05%
JMCVX: 45.02%
EEM: 77.83%

 

[Kabekew]

What is the start and end dates?

Dex -- start 3/19/09 and end 9/7/10 (I update it about weekly).

 

[haha]

I have Fidelity managing one of my "buckets!" I've been running a test for just about two years now: one bucket my own active stock portfolio (buying and selling based on my own research and the various tips and articles around, and cable TV blowhards); one bucket some "best performing" mutual funds, and the third bucket the Fidelity Porfolio Advisory Service with their 1% fee on top of the fees from all their mutual funds (they just buy lots of mutual funds for your portfolio, not stocks or other investments).

These are all 100% stock comparisons, measured from the day I went all-in. (My safer investments are elsewhere in CD's and real estate (my home))!

But the results so far:

S&P 500: 40.7916%
VFINX: 40.5342% (the usual Vanguard index fund mentioned here a lot)
Personal stock portfolio: 38.0138%
"Best Performing Mutual Funds" from some Yahoo article I read in '08 (AMAGX, JMCVX, EEM): 47.8664%
Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service (after 1% commission): 43.1155%

So Fidelity has done better than the benchmark, but I found those mutual funds that did even better than them, without their 1% fee, and pretty much the same beta/risk. Maybe I was just lucky, I don't know.

I do know that doing my best finding my own stocks, listening to everything online, and everyone on MSNBC and the financial channels and the Wall Street Journal, and carefully considering all that, and applying common sense, just didn't work for me. My personal portfolio did worse than the indices, and the professionals too. Lots of wasted time!

All your results are so similar that no conclusion can be made, other than it may not be worth your time to manage your own portfolio. Of course this would depend on whether the risk levels were very similar also.

Ha

 

[LOL!]

Plus you should probably not want to use the S&P500 as a benchmark. It is a US large cap category and I'm sure Fidelity has you in many other asset classes.

An interesting benchmark is the DFA Global Equity I fund (ticker DGEIX). For those dates, it was up 57.8%. This is a diversified fund will a small-cap and value tilt with both US and foreign equities.

 

[dex]

Dex -- start 3/19/09 and end 9/7/10 (I update it about weekly).

Txs - that helps to understand the numbers. The s&p was apx 721 on 3/19

To get an idea on the performance you need to see the performance in a down market.

How did the portfolios perform from the recent 1200 area to the 1050 area - April to Aug of this year?

 

[Kabekew]

All your results are so similar that no conclusion can be made, other than it may not be worth your time to manage your own portfolio. Of course this would depend on whether the risk levels were very similar also.

Ha

Yea, I've concluded the same.

I think the risk levels are similar, because they're all mutual funds (my 20-some stock portfolio is probably similar risk to a typical mutual fund).

And I've put in about 3 hours a week over 18 months managing my stock portfolio. At $100 an hour on top of my sub-par results, I agree it's not worth it.

 

[Kabekew]

Txs - that helps to understand the numbers. The s&p was apx 721 on 3/19

To get an idea on the performance you need to see the performance in a down market.

How did the portfolios perform from the recent 1200 area to the 1050 area - April to Aug of this year?

Hmmm, good idea:

3/31/10 through 9/7/10:

S&P 500: -5.5514%
VFINX: -5.2539%
Personal stock portfolio: -3.1594%
"Best performing mutual funds": -2.588%
Fidelity portfolio advisory service: -3.052%

 

[dex]

Hmmm, good idea:

3/31/10 through 9/7/10:

S&P 500: -5.5514%
VFINX: -5.2539%
Personal stock portfolio: -3.1594%
"Best performing mutual funds": -2.588%
Fidelity portfolio advisory service: -3.052%

It look like Fidelity is doing a good job.

 

[Orchidflower]

"But all I have heard from those who have their assets managed by fidelity is that they stick them in a bunch of actively managed Fidelity funds that charge 4-5x what comparable index funds charge for the same asset classes. And charge them a fee based on assets under management for this "privilege". If you don't mind cutting your SWR in half or by a third, then go right ahead and have Fidelity actively manage your money. [/QUOTE]


Just reread this thread, and noticed this comment. The ONLY thing that was really pushed was Fidelity bonds or funds to me. Very brief, slight mention only of other things.

I'm waiting to see how Helen finds Fidelity. Hopefully, she has a better experience than I did.

 

[Orchidflower]

I don't know why I didn't look this subject up on the net before today, but here:

1. Fidelity tactics hit by brokers - BostonHerald.com


2. "Investment News" has a long article on this. Punch "ex-Fidelity broker claims sales pressure - Investment News" in your search bar and it should pop up. I tried to post this article, but then it pops up with a registration form for "Investment News."
Keep reading the article all the way down to really get what Fidelity tactics and commission structure for brokers is. But here's the gist of it from the article:


"Fidelity brokers receive about half their compensation in salary (averaging between $90,000 and $100,000) and half in bonuses keyed to customer experience surveys and, more importantly, to growth of assets and managers’ assessments. Brokers and a person close to the firm said that Fidelity had been agnostic about product type in the assessment and asset growth components until last year, when new management began emphasizing high-margin money management and insurance products after a surge of money-market assets flooded in.
“A lot of us left because we realized we were going to have to sell proprietary products and be in conflict with the CFP code of ethics,” said Carroll “Bill” Hayes, who quit last summer despite receiving his certification. He is now a principal of Charles Carroll Financial Partners, a registered investment adviser in Annandale, Va."




There are probably more articles, but this gets the idea across I think.

So, I doubt seriously if I was in non-reality about the account executive I visited with at Fidelity despite protests to the contrary from loyal Fidelity customers. It just hasn't happened to you...maybe...or yet.

 

[FUEGO]

So, I doubt seriously if I was in non-reality about the account executive I visited with at Fidelity despite protests to the contrary from loyal Fidelity customers. It just hasn't happened to you...maybe...or yet.

I guess you are aware of this, but you walked into the wolf den dressed as a sheep when you told them you were interested in someone managing your money.

I think the typical introduction to Fidelity here is transferring in some funds or assets using forms or online processes that may require a phone call to a rep. I can't imagine they would be hard-selling these direct investment customers that have not indicated a desire for a financial manager (other than to mention the availability of one). Maybe you fit in the target demographic for "good hunting" and they pounced on you?

Of course times may be changing at Fidelity. I'm curious if those with significant assets at Fidelity will start getting sales calls more often, and receive high pressure sales to roll under their asset management arm. I imagine I have enough assets at fidelity (low-mid six figures) such that I would be a prime target for asset management, but they know that I rarely trade and own mostly index ETF's, so maybe they know I sorta know what I'm doing.

 

[Orchidflower]

One more time: I did NOT tell them I was interested in someone managing my money. They asked if I was, and I said, "Well, yeah, I'd like to hear about it." I NEVER said I was going to do it, but did want to hear everything they had to offer. I still feel not listening is a mistake, because you could pass up a really good deal...not in this case, tho. I always like to hear what's being offered tho in most things as I think it's silly not to listen (from home furnishing to new cars that run well to new methods on the computer, etc. etc.). You don't have to buy. Just a personal policy.

Once I got into that meeting the account exec's attitude was "you WILL give us all your investments and cash" instead of "are you interested at all?" When I said it was high pressure, I meant it was high pressure. Period.

No, I had funds at Fidelity for quite awhile but remained inactive on it. Again, I was taking care of my mother who had dementia which took my primary time and concern. Surely folks who have been in this position understand how time consuming that job is?

I wasn't hunted at all in this case. It is time now for me to take control and pay more attention to this account, so I called the main number asking for help is all--not management of the account--but some help in asset allocation and going over the accounts. I knew I had some big losers in it and would be dumping those particular funds, which I did.

I have a feeling that new clients are more what they are going for right now rather than established clients. But, then again, I could be totally wrong about that as maybe everyone is fair game over at Fidelity.

If the loyal Fidelity clients don't want to believe me then fine. God bless. But I'm outta there except for a few bonds and one fund, which is to my advantage to keep over there.

 

[travelover]

..............
If the loyal Fidelity clients don't want to believe me then fine. God bless. But I'm outta there except for a few bonds and one fund, which is to my advantage to keep over there.

I believe you 100%. You got a bad apple. You are doing the right thing by leaving, based on your bad experience.

If it were me, I'd tell the manager of that office why I'm leaving.

 

[Orchidflower]

I believe you 100%. You got a bad apple. You are doing the right thing by leaving, based on your bad experience.

If it were me, I'd tell the manager of that office why I'm leaving.

I get your point, but if you even read the articles above you will understand this is the new company policy to high pressure high value clients to use their management services and other chosen Fidelity funds, of course. Fat chance they would even care, so no reason to call the head of his department/sales manager. In fact, knowing sales teams like I do, they would most likely have a good laugh out of it...especially if I'd signed up for their management service.

Well, this explains why I couldn't find a CFP in that group, anyway....most have left as you will read in those articles.

 

[Nords]

I get your point, but if you even read the articles above you will understand this is the new company policy to high pressure high value clients to use their management services and other chosen Fidelity funds, of course. Fat chance they would even care, so no reason to call the head of his department/sales manager. In fact, knowing sales teams like I do, they would most likely have a good laugh out of it...especially if I'd signed up for their management service.

All I can say, Orchidflower, is that I've never been treated that way in nearly 25 years with Fidelity, and I'm sorry I recommended them to you.

 

[Orchidflower]

I have a feeling, Nords, that this recession has caused Fidelity to change their policy to more of a high pressure one for high value clients coming in as stated in the links. That's why so many Fidelity board members here who've been with them for years don't relate to what my experience was...thank heaven.

How the heck would you know, Nords, that this company would change policies? You're very smart...but you ain't THAT smart...and I've never heard you say you were psychic either. Certainly not your fault. You're still great in my eyes...