Forcing a smile while cringing

[Markola]

Now that they are in the place, do they still love it for whatever unique qualities drew them to it in the first place?

Because that can make up for a lot of dough and sweat equity. Improving the house becomes an expensive hobby, and who are we to make fun of those?

Well said. You make a good case to show more enthusiasm for their “adventure”. I don’t want to be like another well-intentioned friend in our circle, who is knowledgeable but comes off as a bit of an Eeyore on house projects. “That’ll never work.” “Bad idea.” “We’re doomed.”

 

[Sunset]

.....

I'm in a somewhat similar situation with my son. He (and his wife) bought a place this year, big bucks, but (fortunately) in a neighborhood of bigger buck places. If I had gone along when he looked at it, or during the inspection, I wold have had a lot of input. He's not a DIY type, and has a positive attitude, so I guess he just overlooks the problems.

....

Too bad he didn't bring you along for your opinion.

I brought a friend along when I was young and inexperienced to look at a house I wanted to buy.... So glad I did.
Turns out sloping floors are not a feature
I was saved an expensive lesson.

 

[Marita40]

For sure! And I do hope I’m wrong. Part of it is my own painful lessons learned based on an old house we bought before learning how much it needed. I hate to see someone else walk into the same trap but it really is not my business, as I said at the top. We did manage to get out from under our pile and, like Travelover, it was sweet relief.

I wonder how much your concern over this is based on your statement above. I myself did this 7 years ago: bought a fabulous fixer upper and got way over my head. At a certain point I gave up, sold it (it sold immediately for a high price, so I didn't lose too much), and learned a huge lesson. I now shudder like yourself when I see people potentially making the same mistake. On the other hand, I also have known people who have done this and have been very successful and satisfied. You never know, and one way or another they need to find their own path.

 

[street]

I beleive there are bad endings to some of these fixer uppers. I also know of some that have done very well in fixer uppers. In the cases I know of that did very well have done every improvement themselves and never hired anything out. I'm not sure that makes a difference or not but I would think it would in the bottom line.

 

[freedomatlast]

I'm done with old houses. Spent 6 years in a large circa 1890 house with various additions and outbuildings. We bought it right, put in some sweat equity and sold it at a decent profit, but if i hadn't done a great deal of the work myself, it would have been a different story. I was just getting tired of spending all of my free time doing projects, maintenance and renovations. And every project, turned out to be much more of a job than originally anticipated mainly due to previous band aid type repairs that were put in place over time. And did they not have squares in 1890? I don't believe there was one corner that was truly 90 degrees in the entire 4500+ square feet.

 

[RetiredHappy]

My ex-husband likes to buy older fixer upper homes at the right price and fixes them as a hobby. He turns the homes into rentals after the homes are fixed. He does pay companies to install double pane windows or to pour concrete for any significant size areas. I spent many holidays and weekends helping with refinishing wood, installing new fence and a little bit of painting.

I remember this one house that he bought where there was a huge hole in the wall and burnt from when the water heater caught fire. He knocked out all the burnt areas and redid the wall himself and it looked good. He paid $75K in 1999 for that home and it is now valued at $500K.

 

[W2R]

I grew up in a house like that. I don't think less of my father for buying it, because I knew from whence he came. Honestly I think the reason my father bought it, was that he grew up poorer than dirt poor (no! poorer than that, poorer than we can even imagine) in rural southern Missouri, "without a pot to pee in" as the saying goes. He was determined to get out of there somehow and managed to do it. When he got his M.D. he moved to St. Louis, and bought that house. I think his motives were that he wanted to show the world that he had made it.

THEN he found out the down side. Maintenance costs were insanely high. Just paying for a housekeeper to help clean a place like that costs a near fortune. The place was huge (27 rooms plus the whole carriage house too); he let his brother's family live on the third floor for a few years but they wanted their own place, so that didn't last. It was empty the whole time I was growing up. He never did spend the money to fix up the carriage house for a rental as he had once planned. I'd tell you how much it cost him to have the plumbing in the main house replaced with copper plumbing, but you might die of shock. The house was built around 1910. It also had the type of heat where a company dumped truckloads of coal down a chute to the basement, and then my father had go down there and shovel the coal into a furnace, and the rooms upstairs had steam heat radiators. Some of you probably know what type of heat that is. I don't and wouldn't want it.

He had numerous catered parties with literally hundreds of other doctors and their wives, and guess what happened? These wealthy, highly regarded members of the community STOLE things like a beautiful antique hand carved ivory fan from Japan, jewelry, artwork, and other unreplaceable mementos he had acquired during his life and travels. All in all, "the good life" wasn't as good as he had hoped and these were not the people he wanted to be around, after all.

So, when he retired, we moved to Hawaii to a much more normal sized home on the beachfront. He never had parties any more, and took to just enjoying his retired life, walking the beach every morning with Mom. At last he was truly happy. I'd say it took him a while, but he figured out what he really wanted in life and I am glad that he had a few years enjoying his retirement.

 

[skyking1]

A younger myself and DW used to look at those picturesque piles and dream aloud about rehabbing this one or that one. It was all about charm coupled with location. It has been many years since we did that.
The next place will be custom and new.

 

[ncbill]

I grew up in a house like that. I don't think less of my father for buying it, because I knew from whence he came. Honestly I think the reason my father bought it, was that he grew up poorer than dirt poor (no! poorer than that, poorer than we can even imagine) in rural southern Missouri, "without a pot to pee in" as the saying goes. He was determined to get out of there somehow and managed to do it. When he got his M.D. he moved to St. Louis, and bought that house. I think his motives were that he wanted to show the world that he had made it.

THEN he found out the down side. Maintenance costs were insanely high. Just paying for a housekeeper to help clean a place like that costs a near fortune. The place was huge (27 rooms plus the whole carriage house too); he let his brother's family live on the third floor for a few years but they wanted their own place, so that didn't last. It was empty the whole time I was growing up. He never did spend the money to fix up the carriage house for a rental as he had once planned. I'd tell you how much it cost him to have the plumbing in the main house replaced with copper plumbing, but you might die of shock. The house was built around 1910. It also had the type of heat where a company dumped truckloads of coal down a chute to the basement, and then my father had go down there and shovel the coal into a furnace, and the rooms upstairs had steam heat radiators. Some of you probably know what type of heat that is. I don't and wouldn't want it.

He had numerous catered parties with literally hundreds of other doctors and their wives, and guess what happened? These wealthy, highly regarded members of the community STOLE things like a beautiful antique hand carved ivory fan from Japan, jewelry, artwork, and other unreplaceable mementos he had acquired during his life and travels. All in all, "the good life" wasn't as good as he had hoped and these were not the people he wanted to be around, after all.

So, when he retired, we moved to Hawaii to a much more normal sized home on the beachfront. He never had parties any more, and took to just enjoying his retired life, walking the beach every morning with Mom. At last he was truly happy. I'd say it took him a while, but he figured out what he really wanted in life and I am glad that he had a few years enjoying his retirement.

Sounds like the built-just-past-WWI home where I grew up.

Mom just had to have it because it was in the same neighborhood where she grew up, but what a 'white elephant' it turned out to be!

Same 'one-pipe' steam radiators for heat (50-60% efficient, IIRC) but at least the boiler had been converted to natural gas before us.

No storage tank, though, so the boiler had to be running ($$$) to have hot water.

With a grand entrance hall plus sweeping spiral staircase the bedrooms upstairs were only modestly sized, plus no closets, of course.

And it literally drive one housekeeper nuts...she started claiming she was hearing voices...we later joked those voices were of previous housekeepers complaining "why did they build this place so d***** big?"

 

[Highbeam]

From the OP

"They bought it sight unseen, contingent on inspection, "

Isn't the point that they can back out due to the results of said inspection?

The term "boiler" is used for any water heating HVAC device. Doesn't have to be a steam system.

 

[Markola]

^^^^ Correct, but they bought it anyway. They’ve caught the This Old House Fever, bless them. I caught it once and recovered, fortunately, and I have discovered that the immune response is permanent.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

A friend bought a similar property but it was a board-up at the edge of a gentrifying district. He and his wife paid the city $1 for the house and carriage house on the lot. They had some copper piping delivered to redo the plumbing, and overnight someone broke in and stole it.

That said, they made out well in the end, but they worked their tails off.

 

[Markola]

I’m glad for the happy ending stories above. I’ve seen a few buy an old house and make a small fortune on it. Unfortunately, they started with a large fortune (snare beat and cymbal crash).

 

[MC Rider]

You can save a lot of money just by skipping the general contractor and hiring the tradespeople you need yourself.

 

[Time2]

I'm hoping for a happy story for my daughter and son in law. They bought a small house on the water off of the Manatee river. Needed a lot of work, they had a roof installed, they had new HVAC, duct work and vents installed, we stripped drywall and plaster from 2/3 rooms. They hired drywallers to install and finishers to finish the drywall. Complete new kitchen going in. There was discussion with the designer about how many divorces start during the sit down for kitchen design

They closed about 5 weeks ago, and living in it now or 2 weeks.
They have plans! Boat lift, hot tub, adding a second story with master bedroom and bath. But before any of that, I'm just hoping they get the kitchen done and the floor laid.

 

[MC Rider]

Gotta take care of the infrastructure before the amenities and pretty stuff.

 

[Ramen]

They’ve caught the This Old House Fever, bless them. I caught it once and recovered, fortunately, and I have discovered that the immune response is permanent.

This is hilarious and basically what I've been thinking while reading this thread! My last owned home was brand new with no problems and still more of a headache than I wanted. Sold it 10 years ago, been renting ever since, and can't imagine a sweeter deal. When will there be a reality show about this?

 

[aja8888]

This is hilarious and basically what I've been thinking while reading this thread! My last owned home was brand new with no problems and still more of a headache than I wanted. Sold it 10 years ago, been renting ever since, and can't imagine a sweeter deal. When will there be a reality show about this?

I have owned 8 homes in my life, some new, some used, and all were headaches at one point during ownership. I've not ever bitten off on what these subject folks have though. It will be a trip, for sure.

 

[Music Lover]

You can save a lot of money just by skipping the general contractor and hiring the tradespeople you need yourself.

That only works if you know what you're doing and have access to reliable trade people. Most people don't have the knowledge or the contacts.

 

[jollystomper]

I can’t do a single thing but be concerned for them.

IMHO that is probably the best thing you can do. A lot depends on their attitude. Some people can handle what you describe better than others. The more you get to know them, the more you can discern how they are handling it and therefore how to be supportive. There may not be a need to force a smile, just provide a willingness to listen.

I have friends who have made (in my view, biased since I am not into dealing with fixer uppers )similar mistakes, and I express my concern and support. I usually do not offer my opinion unless directly asked, and try to avoid playing "Monday Morning Quarterback". At times I have helped them with unskilled and unpaid labor. Sometimes things have gone real south but they have still appreciated my concern and support. Sometimes it becomes a life lesson.

 

[ivinsfan]

Let them learn for themselves it's a good lesson. In 1990 we bought a 160 acre farm for under a 100K. My DH and BIL went and had lemonade with the widowed owner and struck a deal. He didn't even see the house he sat on the screen porch.


We moved in and for 15 years all we did was milk cows, crop farm, raise kids and fix on the house..did it all ourselves with some help from BIL. We had the advantage of having a solidly build house but my big kitchen window looked like it was repurposed from an outbuilding!!!


Some day I might sit down and try to pencil in just the cost of materials, I guess I'll need to when we sell someday. But I won't get any money bump from the hair pulling experience of rehabbing a farmer built 100 year old house.



This is mini whine as the building site and outbuildings are worth multiples of what we paid for the entire farm.

 

[dadu007]

A boiler, that says a lot. Steam heat with big cast iron radiators? I wish them my best.

Winter is coming and the twin cities get pretty cold. Big energy bills too.

We had a house in the Chicago area, built in 1958 with a boiler (natural gas) and cast iron radiators. BEST heating system EVER. The trick was to know how to set the thermostat so that the radiators didn't get too hot for too long...You sort of had to let them "coast" and give off heat after the boiler switched off.
Radiant heat puts forced air heat to shame. It is unbelievably cozy.
And I remember our (non-radiant heat) neighbors complaining about their heating bill...our bill was about half of theirs!

 

[ERD50]

... Radiant heat puts forced air heat to shame. It is unbelievably cozy. ...

Not for everyone, personal preference comes into play.

I grew up in a house with radiant heat (the more modern hot water, not steam system). It used a "boiler", nothing wrong with a boiler, per se. But every home since then has been forced air. I *much* prefer forced air.

I like to turn the heat down at night, or if we are out for more than an hour or so. I like the place to warm up quickly when I want. I'd turn the heat up on a cold day when I take a shower, I like the warm air circulating when I get out. If I'm on active project, I'll turn the heat down. If I sit down to read, I'll turn the heat up. You just can't get those bursts when you want with radiant heat. It's slow and even, a blessing in some cases, a curse in many others.

So many variables to one house's bill vs another. But you save by intelligently turning it up and down as needed (the average temperature is lower, ignore the comments that you just pay for it reheating - that's not where the savings comes from).

To each their own.

-ERD50

 

[tb001]

I grew up in these old houses. My parents would buy one, rehab it, sell and buy another. It started with a love for old houses and a dream and turned into a lucrative career. They had many friends who did the same.

You never really know people’s motivations, capabilities or resources. Many times it doesn’t end well, but not always.

 

[Amethyst]

Same here, in northern NJ, only the furnace used heating oil. The low baseboard radiators were probably aluminum, and gave off wonderful plinks and tinkles when warming up. The furnace, in the basement, got so hot you couldn't touch it - but our tiny Siamese cat loved to curl up on top of it. Her own fur got too hot to touch.

Don't know how it is now, with climate change; but back then, winters in "the sticks" were long, snowy, and often dipped into minus degrees Fahrenheit at night. We were never cold, and the bill must not have been too bad, as I don't recall my frugal Dad complaining, the way he did about the electric bill.

We had a house in the Chicago area, built in 1958 with a boiler (natural gas) and cast iron radiators. BEST heating system EVER. The trick was to know how to set the thermostat so that the radiators didn't get too hot for too long...You sort of had to let them "coast" and give off heat after the boiler switched off.
Radiant heat puts forced air heat to shame. It is unbelievably cozy.
And I remember our (non-radiant heat) neighbors complaining about their heating bill...our bill was about half of theirs!