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Old 10-06-2019, 01:29 PM   #21
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You should go to Mrlandlord.com and read their Q&A forum. You will learn a lot from them.
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:32 PM   #22
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Charge a late fee. 8% of the unpaid amount.

With 24 renters that I manage of my own, rarely do I get late rents. I have not missed a rent payment in 10+ years.
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:44 PM   #23
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After running through the full gambit of renter, investor, and landlord if I felt compelled I would simply invest in REIT's, REIT ETF's or even REIT CEF's. While waiting for my next no brainer RE opportunity I invested in RQI, a RE CEF back in 2016. The only difference between that and physical RE was that I was able to see the volatile nature of the investment on a daily basis. Now it's up substantially while paying great income. However if I sell I still have nothing reasonable to buy in physical property. It all balances out.
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:50 PM   #24
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Hire a lawyer if they are not packing right away. The landlord tenant laws are a trap tor the do it your selfer. Do not communicate with them again. They have excuses to pay and I can guarantee they will have excuses to move. Some people are flakes and slackers and it always surprises those of us who take care of our affairs promptly.

It is ok for you to take care of your financial affairs as you see fit. You must get rid of this stress of the slacker non paying tenants asap!!
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:15 PM   #25
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Slow paying tenants are always slow paying. I've had a couple where the 5th would come and go and no check. call's etc to finally get it. PITA! Moved to post dated checks and 1 slow payer moved on, and the other writes the checks so they are dated to correspond to the pay day and I no longer have issues, just have to hang on to the check longer than expected.

My advice is raise rents, and go fishing for a better tenant. The $3600 extra a year won't hurt either.
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:23 PM   #26
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I took over an apartment complex that my MIL owned and had let renters skate on rent. I told each and everyone they had thirty days to get caught up and if they weren't, they were out, evicted. Had a number of them move but that was ok, the new renters knew the rules and abided by them. No good deed goes unpunished and some people will simply take advantage of any situation they feel they can.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by HpRyder View Post
Since your in Ca, if your not exempt under the new Ca rent cap law AB 1482, GET THESE TENANTS OUT before Jan 01 2020 or you will be stuck with them for a long long long time and then pay them a relocation fee of at least 1 month rent.
I am not a landlord - frankly I don't have what appears to be a necessary steel gut to be one. But I've read enough horror stories that in any event California would be the last place I'd become a landlord. OP should heed the above quoted advice.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:43 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by workmyfingerstothebone View Post
Wow, I didn't expect such a one sided stance on this.
I was thinking of ways to work with the tenants . I mean after all, they’ve been there ten years and new tenants may have their own issues.

However, I’m not a landlord. I can see the wisdom in the advice you’ve been given. In your situation, from what I’ve read here, it seems like you should maintain the eviction process and, I would get an attorney involved so that it doesn’t take any longer than necessary.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:09 PM   #29
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Agree with getting attorney.
I’ll be looking for one tomorrow!
Their 60 day ends near end of year, by law I have to give 60 day notice of rent increase.
Seems like throwing gas on a fire.
I feel terrible about all of this.

Definitely will check into some property management firms.
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by workmyfingerstothebone View Post
Been a landlord of a SFH for 10 years, same tenant since I started.

Renters are continually late on the rent, probably 7 out of the last 12 months.
They do pay but sometimes it's at the end of the month, which then causes them to be late the next month and so on....

I've assisted by returning half their rent deposit and using their security deposit as rent payment one month, which they're paying back each month.

Also offered a half month rent for the holidays once hoping this would get them back on their feet.

Only minimal rent increases each year, which should be helping them out.

The rental is about $300/month below market which I could charge tomorrow and get.

One comment was "sure, we are late but we pay every month and don't complain about the late fee".

Is their an appropriate amount of "lateness" allowed before removing tenants?

Overall I like the tenants (been their 10 years) and if not for chasing after the rent monthly I would still rent to them.
After 10 years, given all you've been through with your tenants, you have enabled their "lateness", thanks to all your kindness. My old boss had a saying, "Exceptions create expectations." - These have been sage words of wisdom that have helped me to avoid problems, and to understand them better when they do occur.

I use property management, but i remember the old days, when my dad was his own landlord and manager. He was very good at setting boundaries, and would definitely agree that your tenants should go. I would most likely agree too; but I don't know your tenants, and you seem to like them. There's a lot of missing information - like whether they are on a lease, or month to month - which could make a big difference in how you handle the situation. Do they have kids in school? How much is the late payment fee?

For you, you may be able to get new tenants at a higher rent, but you'd have to find a new tenant, and turnover the property which could be costly after 10 years. The advantages are that you can re-set your expectations of the new tenants with higher rent, proper deposits, documentation and up-front expectations about timely rent payment (and maybe a higher late penalty).

It sounds like you're having second thoughts and are fishing for some permission to change your mind about giving the 60-day notice to chronic late-payers. I doubt anyone who takes their landlording seriously would recommend condoning this behavior from a landlord-tenant perspective, although local laws can complicate (or simplify) things. It's pretty much a no-brainer. In all truth, you've let things go very, very deep with these tenants, and it's unacceptable that it has taken so long for you to get to this point (hence setting expectations).

The reality is, your SFR has worked out well so far (for 10 years!) but now you have a hard decision to make, and some changes to make for the future. It sounds like you're clear-headed and fair-minded. The costs to your tenant of having to move are not insignificant, and may provide some leverage to have a open conversation about the problems you are having - if you want to. It's possible they may not be fix-able.

We will all tell you the correct business answer; you don't need to follow that advice if it doesn't feel right to you. We don't have all the facts. You are the one that needs to be able to sleep well at night. This is a hard lesson of being your own landlord, and you'll have to work it out with your tenant - or not.

If you do ultimately choose to move forward with the 60-day notice, you may want to speak to a lawyer to get the most relevant advice and specific information on the process.
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by HpRyder View Post
Since your in Ca, if your not exempt under the new Ca rent cap law AB 1482, GET THESE TENANTS OUT before Jan 01 2020 or you will be stuck with them for a long long long time and then pay them a relocation fee of at least 1 month rent.
He's almost certainly exempt from AB 1482. According to the OP, this is a SFH and he's managing it himself. Unless this property is somehow partially owned by a corporation or REIT, it's exempt from both the rent control and eviction protection provisions.

@workmyfingerstothebone - since you're looking for an attorney anyway, you should ask about this new law and confirm your exemption when you interview them. I would expect anyone in CA who practices landlord/tenant law to be up to speed on it, and if you find someone who's not, that might be a good indicator that you should be looking for a different attorney.
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:32 PM   #32
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I agree the tenant should go, but say that while currently dealing with a slow-paying tenant. Today is the 6th, and he still owes me $12 from September that he just finished paying.
He's a long term tenant, and has usually paid on time. But he lost his job a few months ago, so I've been letting him make rent payment installments. I'm not sure if he has a permanent job yet, but his payments have been very slow, and I've had to text him a few times each month to get a payment. I'm very frustrated about this, and not sure how much longer I'm going to allow it.
Another point that was made is very good advice. When you get a new tenant, NEVER tell them you are the property owner, and just introduce yourself as the Manager. When a situation comes up, you can tell the tenant that while you'd like to help them out, the "Owner" wouldn't allow it.
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:06 PM   #33
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Probably a great idea to use the "absent authority" of OldShooter. I'm a dummy and let people know I'm the owner. I've told people in the past that i do what i say and that the notice I'm giving them (a pay & stay or not and be evicted) means I'm going to be honest with myself as well as them - won't be happy boosting them out, but if I say I'm doing it then that's what I'm doing so please don't put me in that unpleasant situation. I give them the power of choice. Eviction should be painful and not random - it helps a landlord make better choices in the future.
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ginny View Post
Hire a lawyer if they are not packing right away. The landlord tenant laws are a trap tor the do it your selfer. Do not communicate with them again. They have excuses to pay and I can guarantee they will have excuses to move. Some people are flakes and slackers and it always surprises those of us who take care of our affairs promptly.

It is ok for you to take care of your financial affairs as you see fit. You must get rid of this stress of the slacker non paying tenants asap!!
^^^^ This. You do NOT want to run afoul of tenant law in your state / municipality. The laws are slowing changing in favor of tenants everywhere to varying degrees. I know many of the suggestions here would be illegal in my location.

FWIW, if the tenants take decent care of the property, I try to let a lot slide, but I have found that if I am lenient regarding "on time" payments, they never comply.
Once I started enforcing late fee (5%) they paid on time.

In my location you can't even say they pay delinquent late fee before you apply payments to the next months rent. in other words, they can be late every month and those late fee's can "sit" out there with nothing you can really do about it...they really don't even have to pay them when it comes down to it.

So my advice would be if they take care of the property, tighten up your lease language on late fee's within the law, and keep them. If they really don't take care of it, get rid of them, but get some legal advice locally.
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:52 PM   #35
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Thanks for the advice.

This is a M2M rental.
Many reasons for late payments; job loss, illness; family issues; work slow down, car problems .... don’t get paid till after the “ date “ , and others.

My decision is to move forward with the 60 day notice, seek legal advice.
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Old 10-06-2019, 11:52 PM   #36
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Some people never have any luck. Things are always going wrong, and they can't find the rent.

Then you find out they lent a friend $500...you are now subsidizing said friend! Or something similar. There's always something.

Do you really want to be Bank of Landlord?
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:20 AM   #37
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Youíve got to follow the law for late fees. Iíve had tenants late once, but not more, and MN only allows you to charge up to 8% of total rent due. Iíll be the contrarian and tell you that maybe you should consider keeping them. I had one such tenant when I started. She had lived there for 14 years when I purchased the place. The old landlord was frustrated with her and wanted out. I raised the rent on her by 20%, when she was late on rent the first time I gave her a notice and then she hasnít been late since.
Your tenants have been there for 10 years, so been a easy ride, if they are taking good care of your place,Iíd consider sending them a letter stating your case.
1. Their rent is under market, and needs to be brought up closer to market rent over the next couple of years.
2. You are tired of chasing after their rent. This has got to change, if rent is not paid within five days of rent due then late fees applies. If rent is late on two consecutive months they get a termination notice.
3. Donít accept checks, use a free online rent payment system to automatically charges late payments and lets you know the payment status. I like cozy for rent payments.

Good luck, I think you can increase rent and keep tenants, but you need to own your policy of not accept late rent.
We often use the absentee partner approach as well, it is effective for sure.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:15 AM   #38
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@NgineER , STARsky

Your points might be an alternative if I run up against Cali anti-LL laws.



I'll have a better understanding once I get legal advice.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:16 AM   #39
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@Stargazer08
MrLandlord.com was interesting and helpful, thanks for the input.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:42 AM   #40
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I give 5 days grace period. After that, it will be $100 per day for late fee.
And if you are in a tenant friendly state, then you are looking at trouble with what will probably be considered an unreasonable fee...even if you had that in a contract that they accepted.
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