When Is A Retiree Considered Wealthy?

[audreyh1]

Same here. And I think I’ve accomplished it.

We live on a small pontoon boat lake. I was doing yard work in the backyard and I overheard someone in a pontoon boat say to their boat mates “ Look- they gave a gardener”

Good one!

 

[HI Bill]

I feel wealthy, but my wife does not . We don't have to work, live in Hawaii, own a house with a pool, and have a budget that includes 33%+ discretionary income. I've LBYM for most of my life, and put off purchases and travel, sometimes for years. I lived in condos, rented, bought used or modest autos, and avoided debt except mortgages. In the past two years, I've enjoyed blowing that dough, spending 2X what we spent while w#rking, and not worrying too much about it!

 

[RetiredHappy]

We live in a community that everyone whom we know seem to have at least 2 to 3 times what we have, i.e. based on the value of their primary and secondary homes, and there are also many $100M+ and billionaires (well-known celebrities, famous attorneys and real estate tycoons). We pinch ourselves for being able fortunate to live in this wonderful place despite not being rich or famous. We have enough for our needs and wants.

 

[explanade]

We live in a community that everyone whom we know seem to have at least 2 to 3 times what we have, i.e. based on the value of their primary and secondary homes, and there are also many $100M+ and billionaires. We pinch ourselves for being able fortunate to live in this wonderful place despite not being rich or famous. We have enough for our needs and wants.

That should make you feel bad.

I remember reading about a poll that one of the situations which enraged people is when airline passengers walk through first or business class towards the back of the plane.

 

[harley]

That happened with my dad. Someone saw him w*rking in his garden. They stopped at the house and asked who he was and if they could hire him too. They thought his garden was amazing (and it always was.) My dad got a kick out of it.

DW is from a family of gardeners, and has a masters in Landscape Design. She's taught me over the decades, and I think I'm pretty good at it too. Plus we like to work in the gardens, and take pride in the way it all looks. We were selling a house that her parents had lived in, then we did. The people buying it kept asking who our gardener was, and we kept saying it was us. They would look at us funny, and say, "but who does your gardening?" They just couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that people that lived in such a nice house would do their own work.

I go incognito and simple too. But I've noticed that incognito and simple doesn't work in car dealers. I went into a Ferrari dealer in Scottsdale in summer to cool off, and a Bentley dealer in Chicago in winter to warm up. Dressed like a slug both times. Both times a salesman graciously met me , asked me what car I was interested in. They were still nice after I told them that I was just there to cool off (or warm up). Let me sit down and stay as long as I wanted.

But they never know when an incognito and simple looking person is there to buy a $500k car.

I once went to a meeting with a bunch of important people (but not me) in Northern VA. I was working for an Alexandria City Councilman. Everyone was dressed really nicely, except this one older man who was wearing paint smeared work clothes. I finally asked my boss who he was, and was told that he was Robert E. Simon, the man who built Reston VA (planned city), and that he was worth more than everyone else in the room put together. Appearances can be deceiving.

 

[street]

I go incognito and simple too. But I've noticed that incognito and simple doesn't work in car dealers. I went into a Ferrari dealer in Scottsdale in summer to cool off, and a Bentley dealer in Chicago in winter to warm up. Dressed like a slug both times. Both times a salesman graciously met me , asked me what car I was interested in. They were still nice after I told them that I was just there to cool off (or warm up). Let me sit down and stay as long as I wanted.

But they never know when an incognito and simple looking person is there to buy a $500k car.

I like that. I was thinking they were going to ask you to leave. Lol

 

[RetiredHappy]

That should make you feel bad.

I remember reading about a poll that one of the situations which enraged people is when airline passengers walk through first or business class towards the back of the plane.

Nope. We love where we live and love our friends. We feel very fortunate. Most of us belong to the same country club, so it's not like we are poor. We are just not as wealthy. We can afford everything that we want. Yes, and we always fly first class.

 

[cyber888]

Well, after reading all the comments, let's just say, you are truly wealthy if you are in the 1% - 0.0001%

 

[Andre1969]

That should make you feel bad.

I remember reading about a poll that one of the situations which enraged people is when airline passengers walk through first or business class towards the back of the plane.

If you're flying in one of those planes, you're just common folk no matter where you sit. The REAL planes have the door behind first class and in front of steerage, so never the two shall mix!

 

[Midpack]

But they never know when an incognito and simple looking person is there to buy a $500k car.

One of my favorite books.

 

[rkser]

I appreciate the effort he put into his video, and if he is an investment advisor, I can understand his focus on net worth, as he has an interest in getting to invest that money. But I think it would be a mistake to entirely disregard income. If a 65 year old married household had two secure pensions totaling $150k per year, they could live a pretty darned good life, even if they had minimal net worth. Especially if they also have social security coming in.

Totally agree, Net Worth may not matter much if the monthly cash flow is taken care of by Pensions + SS & other sources of income.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Totally agree, Net Worth may not matter much if the monthly cash flow is taken care of by Pensions + SS & other sources of income.

Also agree, I think income/pensions/SS often don't get enough attention in these types of discussions. My in-laws had both pensions/SS and a very nice nest egg in retirement - never needed to touch the nest egg (other than reinvesting RMDs), all while living a very nice lifestyle with two mortgage-free homes. My mom was never able to save, but had a decent pension w/benefits, and with SS, despite having virtually no nest egg, was financially ok in retirement.

The definition of NW is pretty straight-forward, but there should be a couple of other measurements of retirement preparedness - maybe one in which annuity-like payments are capitalized and also one where investments are valued on an after-tax basis. I know those would require a lot of assumptions and unknowables, hence why I think not popular.

 

[thefist]

I have never understood this business of comparing wealth, net worth, income whatever to others. It seems so pointless to me.

We care about our retirement income and our investment balances/performance. We really do not care how it stacks up with anyone else. Really....why should we?? It seems so pointless.

Great post brett. Comparison is the death of joy.

 

[MarieIG]

Wide gap in the top two percentiles.

At 4% withdrawal, it's about $120k?

So the spending for actual living expenses after taxes doesn't seem ... wealthy. Maybe upper middle class or the highest part of the middle class.

It not my idea of "wealthy" either. Personally, I would cross out the word "wealthy" and replace it with "comfortable."

 

[MarieIG]

We live in a community that everyone whom we know seem to have at least 2 to 3 times what we have, i.e. based on the value of their primary and secondary homes, and there are also many $100M+ and billionaires (well-known celebrities, famous attorneys and real estate tycoons). We pinch ourselves for being able fortunate to live in this wonderful place despite not being rich or famous. We have enough for our needs and wants.

That's more of my idea of "super wealthy".

 

[MarieIG]

If you're flying in one of those planes, you're just common folk no matter where you sit. The REAL planes have the door behind first class and in front of steerage, so never the two shall mix!

Well, unless they deliberately stomped on my foot as they walked by, I really don't see why I should care.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Well, unless they deliberately stomped on my foot as they walked by, I really don't see why I should care.

It is a feel good thing ...... for some, me included.

 

[Koolau]

There is one way in which this discussion intrigues me. I consider myself very fortunate being able to live in Hawaii. It has been a goal since I was in my late 20s - almost 50 years ago. I've achieved that goal through hard w*rk and being blessed.

We have a nice apartment-condo. Nothing fancy and it's relatively small. But we like it. For well less than a million, we got a "million dollar view."

As I travel our Island, I see mansions on hill-sides. I see luxury condos. I see penthouses on skyscrapers. I wonder HOW RICH DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO LIVE IN SUCH LUXURY? I don't dwell on this, but I know that 5 percenters can't live like that. I'm not sure an "entry level" 1 percenter could live like that. I see so much wealth on display and wonder who these people are and how they got to such a level of wealth.

I do not dwell on this and I've become used to the disparities to the extent I don't think of the subject that often anymore. I suppose it's the ultimate opposite of "The Millionaire Next Door" mentality to display such wealth for all to see. I see it and, sometimes, I just wonder...

 

[Bigdawg]

I appreciate the effort he put into his video, and if he is an investment advisor, I can understand his focus on net worth, as he has an interest in getting to invest that money. But I think it would be a mistake to entirely disregard income. If a 65 year old married household had two secure pensions totaling $150k per year, they could live a pretty darned good life, even if they had minimal net worth. Especially if they also have social security coming in.

^This is us. Not 65(yet) and not at 150k yet but we can sit on the couch and pull in 120K. Net worth is barely over 1M. Compounding is awesome but COLA pensions are the bomb. I'm grateful.

 

[Koolau]

^This is us. Not 65(yet) and not at 150k yet but we can sit on the couch and pull in 120K. Net worth is barely over 1M. Compounding is awesome but COLA pensions are the bomb. I'm grateful.

Heh, heh, wanna trade?

 

[Katiek]

I look at these types of surveys/articles because I'm a worrier. I hope to retire soon and I'm still worried about will I have enough and do I need to keep working longer (even though I've planned carefully). I'm not looking at comparisons to try to feel better than others, but for the reassurance that if people at this level are doing ok, then I should be ok too.


I realize that depends on lifestyle and how much one spends but each additional piece of "confirmation" is reassuring.

 

[Koolau]

I look at these types of surveys/articles because I'm a worrier. I hope to retire soon and I'm still worried about will I have enough and do I need to keep working longer (even though I've planned carefully). I'm not looking at comparisons to try to feel better than others, but for the reassurance that if people at this level are doing ok, then I should be ok too.


I realize that depends on lifestyle and how much one spends but each additional piece of "confirmation" is reassuring.

I remember those days - long ago. I'd figured it 6 ways from Sunday and everything said "go" and yet I was hesitant. Then Megacorp figured out I was too happy in my w*rk and decided I should go back to the salt mines. I was gone in a hurry.

And I agree that I used such comparisons as we see in this thread to get an idea of how I might survive without a pay check.

By the way, what helped me most was to design "back ups" to my plan. "If this happens, I can always do that." So far, I have not needed my back ups but they still offer some comfort 18 years later. Good luck - and don't worry.

 

[Sunset]

I look at these types of surveys/articles because I'm a worrier. I hope to retire soon and I'm still worried about will I have enough and do I need to keep working longer (even though I've planned carefully). I'm not looking at comparisons to try to feel better than others, but for the reassurance that if people at this level are doing ok, then I should be ok too.


I realize that depends on lifestyle and how much one spends but each additional piece of "confirmation" is reassuring.

The good news is that retirement will be a lot like working.... you will still worry

We have more than people I know that successfully retired and have been retired for up to 3 decades... and I STILL worry... or hesitate to spend now and then.

 

[Koolau]

The good news is that retirement will be a lot like working.... you will still worry

We have more than people I know that successfully retired and have been retired for up to 3 decades... and I STILL worry... or hesitate to spend now and then.

All true, but just like when you w*rk, you learn how to do everything and then you relax and most of your worries go away. You'll always have some worries, but you'll also get into the rhythm of retirement. Come on in, the water is fine.

 

[Gumby]

...Come on in, the water is fine.

Shhhh. If you tell everyone that, then they'll all retire and traffic and restaurants will suck on the weekdays too.