Replacement Hot Water Heater

[travelover]

I suspect there's a problem somewhere. A 40G tank should be fine for much more than two showers. Electric or gas? What temp is it set for normally?

If I'm wrong and the heater checks out OK, then how about setting it to "blister" hot and adding a thermostatic temperature control valve?

Sounds like the dip tube inside that forces the water to be drawn off the bottom has fallen off.

 

[Bamaman]

We built the house in 2001. We have all copper plumbing, which I'm told should be free from corrosion.

Copper pipes are no longer desirable because they develop pin hole leaks behind walls with sheet rock.

I have a lake house with copper pipe, and every year or two I've got to cut the sheetrock away and fix a leak.

My neighbor's got the same problem times 100 over the years. He wraps the leaks with bicycle inner tubes and throws a screw clamp over the leak. You'd think he'd just cut out the copper pipe and replace it with PVC, CPVC or PEX pipes.

Someone asked about using SharkBite connectors with pipes and replacing pipe in a house. Sure you can use'em if you can afford them.

 

[CaptTom]

Copper pipes are no longer desirable because they develop pin hole leaks behind walls with sheet rock.

I have a lake house with copper pipe, and every year or two I've got to cut the sheetrock away and fix a leak.

My neighbor's got the same problem times 100 over the years. He wraps the leaks with bicycle inner tubes and throws a screw clamp over the leak. You'd think he'd just cut out the copper pipe and replace it with PVC, CPVC or PEX pipes.

Maybe it's the water? After 36 years, the copper pipes I installed when I first bought the house still look and work like new. Well, not shiny new; there's some patina, but pretty much the same as when they were installed. Never saw a pinhole leak. I've re-installed sections of copper pipe that were removed from some earlier installation. Again, no problem.

I've cut and removed old pipes, no sign of scaling or wasting of any of the inside walls.

Your neighbor's approach is kinda funny. I'd rip them all out and go with PEX in a heartbeat. The PEX connection tools will pay for themselves in savings over SharkBite connections in very short order.

 

[travelover]

Copper pipes are no longer desirable because they develop pin hole leaks behind walls with sheet rock..........

My 51 year old house was plumbed with copper for both fresh water and drains. I never had problem with any pressure lines, but the copper drain lines rotted out everywhere there was a near horizontal run.

 

[euro]

It does sound like a low ball trick the plumber uses to help get a job, bid low then add on cost later. I would have expected those cost to be included and for $88 you can buy more copper fittings than you would ever need to replace a water heater. I guess the good news is that the total install price you paid does not seem that out of line.

Agree that the total bill is reasonable but that said, I just replaced TWO 40gal gas water heaters in one of my rentals (did the work myself) and ended up at a hair over $950. This included two spill pans, and two expansion tanks to bring the whole thing up to code (heaters were 15+years old - evidently spill pans and expansion tanks were not the norm back then (or were ignored by whoever installed them).

 

[misanman]

Your neighbor's approach is kinda funny. I'd rip them all out and go with PEX in a heartbeat. The PEX connection tools will pay for themselves in savings over SharkBite connections in very short order.

My architect BIL told me the other day that they are starting to see failures with PEX. Not sure of details but something to keep an eye on.

 

[Winemaker]

What bothers me about water heaters is that several years ago the were built to withstand up to 175# psi, and I sold thousands of 175# psi relief valves as a teenager in a hardware store. Fast forward several years, and relief valves cannot exceed 150# psi, and these things drip and pi$$ al the time. And now they want you to install a thermal expansion tank also, and they added more insulation to be energy efficient. Every tank I sold as a teenager, and the tanks I purchased up to 10 years ago, warned not to use insulation kits as they shorten the life span of the tank. Tanks now run $500 dollars or more.

 

[jzajzz]

Coincidentally, our hot water heater sprung a leak this morning and I had to have it replaced. It was almost 14 years old. I called our usual heating/cooling company who quoted us $1560. I called a plumber we have used in the past and they quoted us $880. I went with them. This was for a $40 gallon tank that claims energy usage of $263/yr.

I have to say I found the whole experience to be somewhat unsatisfying.

The final bill came to $968 because they had to replace some of the copper fittings. I talked to the guy and he says he almost always has to do that which begs the question as to why that's not part of the quote anyway. Also, they said he would be there at noon and be finished by 2pm. When he still hadn't arrived by 1:45. I called back to be told he was on his way and just around the corner. He finally showed up at 2:15pm and sat in the driveway in his truck until 2:30 for some inexplicable reason before ringing the door bell, my guess is he was eating lunch. He was done by 4:15.

Hopefully this one will last 14 years too.

Did he come to the house before quoting you? did you ask them why it wasn't quoted in the 1st place?

 

[samclem]

Every tank I sold as a teenager, and the tanks I purchased up to 10 years ago, warned not to use insulation kits as they shorten the life span of the tank.

I wonder why properly installed additional insulation would reduce the lifespan of the tank? It would seem that the burner would operate for fewer hours per year (that would be good for longevity), and that otherwise (galvanic corrosion, sediment buildup, etc) it wouldn't make any difference since the average temp of the water in storage is about the same. Maybe they are worried about moisture getting trapped inside the newly added outer vapor barrier and corroding the outer jacket of the WH?

 

[Texas Proud]

What bothers me about water heaters is that several years ago the were built to withstand up to 175# psi, and I sold thousands of 175# psi relief valves as a teenager in a hardware store. Fast forward several years, and relief valves cannot exceed 150# psi, and these things drip and pi$$ al the time. And now they want you to install a thermal expansion tank also, and they added more insulation to be energy efficient. Every tank I sold as a teenager, and the tanks I purchased up to 10 years ago, warned not to use insulation kits as they shorten the life span of the tank. Tanks now run $500 dollars or more.

It was earlier today so I will not go look it up again....

But, the expansion tank was not needed before... they said that the expansion of the water would go back into the cold water feed line and maybe even into the muni system... now they have back flow preventer that now puts the pressure on the house faucets and pipes... if you have an old house you can get by without the tank... a new one needs it...

I was also surprised that I saw someone making a heater with the expansion tank inside the heater!!! Kinda smart thinking IMO... however, when I looked at Home Depot I did not see any to see if they were more expensive...


Edit... well, I looked it up and found a different article, but the same info...

https://plumbertalk.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/expansion-tank-that-thing-on-top-of-your-water-heater/

 

[mountainsoft]

Copper pipes are no longer desirable because they develop pin hole leaks

It really depends on your water. If it's acidic, you will probably develop leaks in the future. If it's not, copper pipe will probably hold up fine.

PEX pipe and tools weren't widely available here when we built our house in 2003, so we used CPVC for our plumbing. So far, no problems other than it expands with temperature so it makes noise moving in the joists.

If you already have copper pipes, you might want to look into water treatment at the source to decrease the acidity of the water. Or, replumb your house with PEX.

 

[meierlde]

It really depends on your water. If it's acidic, you will probably develop leaks in the future. If it's not, copper pipe will probably hold up fine.

PEX pipe and tools weren't widely available here when we built our house in 2003, so we used CPVC for our plumbing. So far, no problems other than it expands with temperature so it makes noise moving in the joists.

If you already have copper pipes, you might want to look into water treatment at the source to decrease the acidity of the water. Or, replumb your house with PEX.

Note that the most modern pex pluming involves home run piping i.e. each fixture is directly connected to a manfold which distributes the water. If done the way a newer house across the street was done, the pex pipes were run thru conduit pipes thru the slab, meaning not to hard to change pipes.

 

[Winemaker]

It was earlier today so I will not go look it up again....

But, the expansion tank was not needed before... they said that the expansion of the water would go back into the cold water feed line and maybe even into the muni system... now they have back flow preventer that now puts the pressure on the house faucets and pipes... if you have an old house you can get by without the tank... a new one needs it...

https://plumbertalk.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/expansion-tank-that-thing-on-top-of-your-water-heater/

I have some rental houses built in 1910, 1917, and an 4 unit apartment building built in 1972. They all have backflow preventers that were installed eons ago by looking at the incoming lines. I did replace the galvanized lines with copper in the houses but the preventers were already installed.

 

[Ready]

We had our new water heater installed today. It's still cranking up, so I haven't full tested it yet. But the water pressure is much better. There was a pipe feeding the water from the heater to the main plumbing lines that was badly clogged. That seems to be the reason for the low water flow.