For the small minority, no kids, no spouse, what's your plan?

[youbet]

FIL was a burden to DW by refusing to face the reality soon enough that he couldn't stay in the house as long as he did without substantial help from me and mostly her. At one point she was driving 35-40 minutes one way three or four days a week looking after him. When he couldn't drive she was the one taking him to doctors, grocery, etc. While she was grateful to have the free time to do this because that's who she is, frankly I was a bit resentful that he didn't take more responsibility for himself and make arrangements to move before he absolutely had no choice.

That said, he was terrified of nursing homes because his father was in one in the 1970's. Almost all are much better now and more heavily regulated because of past abuses. And FIL did have the resources to get into one better than the minimum standard. I have a far different view because of my mother's experience in a well run CCRC.

A cousin of DW's in FL has it even worse. Her parents are living nearby and her father has dementia, incontinence, etc. and all he other bad things everyone is justifiably afraid of. She is dealing with finding homes for them with meager resources - they should have made those arrangements a long time ago. What do these people think is going to happen? That they're never going to get old and feeble? That they'll get lucky and just pass away while asleep one night? That happens to a lucky few but more often it is far different.

Thanks for the specific examples Walt.

It seems like there is a bit of a consensus that a child (or someone) checking in on you via email for a total of one hour a month wouldn't be a burden. And that moving in with a child and he/she providing 24 hr life support would be a burden. Two extremes. That seems to leave the discussion with what are reasonable expectations (family culture dependent of course as W2R points out) for a parent to expect of a child, sibling to expect of a younger sibling, a friend to expect of a friend, etc? What's a "burden?" Or, another way, what level of help is reasonable to expect and would be defined as "burdensome?"

I've described what's going on with us helping MIL above. It doesn't seem burdensome, especially considering MIL's loyalty and helpfulness to us over the years. But it is somewhat intrusive. If we wanted to move away we'd be reluctant to, for example.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

This is a good topic. It is one most of us have to face eventually. For myself turning 46 in a few weeks, I am not too worried yet. However, truth be told sometimes we don't like our relatives, the few that are available to help out. That is a cold hard fact. I do not have a plan. I may never have a plan. My thinking now is I don't need one. That could change in the future.

 

[redduck]

... I would rather go wander off into the woods and let the crows pick my eyes out than be a burden on anyone.
Wild Irish Rogue

...What I'd rather avoid is the possible situation, when living alone, that nobody is checking on me at all. I could see myself becoming unable to get out of bed, and just lying there starving to death and dying of thirst, all by myself...

Maybe you could join irishgal for a walk in the woods.

 

[athena53]

My only point for this thread is that you can have a child (or someone) involved in your elder care without that child ever spending a minute with you living in their home, changing your diaper, feeding you, etc. But it would be darn helpful, in my experience, if the child (or someone) would oversee finances so you aren't ripped off and monitors, even at arm's length, your care. <snip>
Stopping by with the grandkids once in a while would be a nice plus too!!

DH is 15 years older than I am, so I expect to outlive him. My beloved only son told me years ago that he'd take me in if I was incapable of living independently. While his intentions warmed my heart, I don't want him dealing with my incontinence when I'm 90, if it comes to that and, now that he's married and has a child of his own, that's a heck of a promise to make for them.

They live 3 hours away; my plan would be to find a decent Continuing Care Community near them so they can look in on me but don't have to play cook, chauffeur, nurse, etc., 24/7. I saw my grandmother go through that with her elderly parents before she put them into nursing homes and she ended up having a heart attack during that time- which she ignored. They found out later that she'd had it after she had a second one.

 

[Clone]

Maybe you could join irishgal for a walk in the woods.

That awkward moment when you are going to bury a body, and you find another body...

 

[youbet]

My beloved only son told me years ago that he'd take me in if I was incapable of living independently............. that's a heck of a promise to make for them............... my plan would be to find a decent Continuing Care Community near them so they can look in on me but don't have to play cook, chauffeur, nurse, etc., 24/7. .

Everyone will be different, but my plan would be similar to yours. In fact, I'm in the midst of estate planning now and am incorporating "incapacitated" issues in with the death issues.

The attorney gave me a heads up on an issue I had been ignoring. Some of us will become incapacitated suddenly. There won't be a period where you feel yourself slowly losing competence. One day you're shoveling your driveway with little effort. The next you can't zip yourself up or remember how to open your on line brokerage account and move some funds around. Certain plans need to be in place before the stroke, car accident, etc., happens. Otherwise, we might wind up a true "burden" to the kids!

 

[HFWR]

Another possible situation to avoid is becoming completely loonie due to Alzheimers, and wandering around town, getting lost, getting mugged, and dying in a gutter from a blow to the head from someone who only wanted my wallet.

Dang, there went my retirement plan...

 

[redduck]

That awkward moment when you are going to bury a body, and you find another body...

Yeah, I experience that awkward moment every single time.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

+1
I had two very dear friends who were both more than 20 years older than me. I took great delight in being around them, but alas they are both gone now. Both were WW II vets and they had wonderful stories to tell. If I heard a particular story more than once it never seemed like a problem because each retelling featured slightly different details.

I count myself extremely fortunate that they both seemed to enjoy my company as much as I enjoyed theirs.

I also feel very lucky that I have a great friend who is more than 20 years younger than me, and we have a very similar relationship.

This is tough for me right now. For as long as I can remember, my Dad has had a happy hour every weekend. He's now 88 and most of the participants have been 70 or older (except me). Over the years, the group has dwindled, mainly because of death. The last participant of the group (besides me and Dad) has been having more and more health issues and his attendance has been sporadic. Most recently, it's been determined that he has lung cancer and won't be with us much longer. We're taking happy hour to his place tomorrow for one last visit. It's terribly depressing as its been something that I (and more importantly my Dad) has thoroughly enjoyed over the years and it's coming to an end. I hope my Dad can find some new participants but his social interactions are fairly limited these days. Mortality can be very cruel.

Sent from my mobile device so please excuse grammatical errors.

 

[Katiek]

Right now my siblings are named as executors and have a POA, and I'd trust them (plus we all live relatively near one another at the moment). However, as we retire, I expect some of us will move away, and I'm not sure we will live in the same region. Plus, I'm the youngest, so the odds suggest I'll outlive them.

My niece and nephew are currently in college/grad school. I think they're good kids, but so far they've never held real jobs, so I don't know how comfortable they will be with financial planning tasks. I also don't think we're so close that they're likely to spend the same time that my siblings and I spent caring for our parents.

I would trust them with big health care decisions or to be the executor under my will, but I wouldn't expect them to spend hours each week with detailed care. I also expect I'd need to eventually move to some sort of independent/assisted living facility and likely hire professionals to assist with various legal/financial tasks.

 

[kcowan]

I'm seriously considering this too, mainly because the idea of living in a continual care place is pretty repulsive to some INTJs like me. I could hire someone to come in and care for me once I can't care for myself, and then I wouldn't have to be in a community setting like that. But, the caretaker could rob me blind, too. (sigh)

Like you, I simply refuse to be a burden on my daughter at all. It's just not something I would consider. My very few relatives and F are not young.

MIL enjoyed her time as a dependent while still living on her own place 45 minutes drive away. In spite of all our efforts, she achieved her objective of leaving her TH feet first. She said it was "payback time".

I said to DW, don't worry about it. Just think of your new "job" as 3x a week for the day doing whatever she wants. That made it a whole lot better for my precious type A DW. She enjoyed the final years with her mom, who passed at 93 of lung cancer.

 

[cyber888]

Life expectancy in the US is 78. For men, it is 76 and women it is 81. So, if you are able to survive until 75 without getting sick or have alzheimer, you may still have budget for long term care till you croak.
If you need to stretch your budget, there are countries that have cheaper long-term care like the Philippines.

 

[old woman]

I have enough money to make some choices so will hire as much help as I need or move to a easier housing like a condo or apartment. If my mind fails my nephew can deal with money for me, if my body fails my niece works for a caregiver agency and can send me 24/7 caregivers.
My nephew and a cousin have offered to live together but cousin is flaky so maybe nephew if it works out right for both of us we could buy a duplex together or a house with a double master or MIL unit. My brother has the perfect house he got when mom was old. Two bedrooms, living room and bath on one side of kitchen then the other half has 3 upstairs bedrooms, family room and two more baths. Four generations have lived there so far my niece had it first and her kids born there then sold to her parents, mom lived there then niece and kids moved back for a while so now 5 bedroom house for two people. It was perfect for mom since she didn't cook or do stairs they made dinner and she kept extra salads in the fridge and bowl of fruit on the counter so great two generation house.

 

[Moemg]

I have a SO and a daughter but I also have a lot of friends . I have watched these friends boost each other up and help when needed .My ultimate plan is to move near my daughter into continuing care facility after my SO dies but not until I have tried other solutions . I am not a big fan of home health care unless it is for minimal needs . I have seen too many people robed by home care .

 

[haha]

Life expectancy in the US is 78. For men, it is 76 and women it is 81. So, if you are able to survive until 75 without getting sick or have alzheimer, you may still have budget for long term care till you croak.
If you need to stretch your budget, there are countries that have cheaper long-term care like the Philippines.

These figures likely represent life expectancy at birth, for recent cohort.

More relevant is life expectancy at the age when you are doing the planning.

For example, in the US all race all sex life expectancy at age 75 is 11.7 additional years, or a total of 86.7. For men only it is 10.6 years, for women 12.5 years.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2010/022.pdf

Ha

 

[ChicagoGal]

No kids, no spouse here. My notional plan is similar to W2R - a decent and progressive continuing care facility. As I'm at the tail end of the Boomers, I figure that by the time I need that situation, space won't be quite so tight as it is now.

I had one grandmother that stayed in her house until she died at 95, but she had a great network of neighbors as well as a local sister and brother that helped out a lot. We did worry about her quite a bit, though, being on her own in a two story house with a basement.

My other grandmother made the move to a continuing care facility at 91 (moving from Arizona to Chicago to be closer to two of her granddaughters). She didn't love it ("too many old people there"), but found out six weeks later she had cancer and she was gone within 3 months, mostly with hospice care in her apartment. But thank goodness she made that move, as I'm not sure what we would have done had she been on her own in Arizona at the end.

For now, I'm downsizing the big house next year, and will find out how well I do back in apartment/condo type of living. Then figure out the next move.

As for people, I have three young adult nieces and nephews that are local. I would trust any of them with my finances and/or decision making. I absolutely will not be a burden to them if I can help it. But who knows which if any of them will still be local in 20-30 years when I may need the help?

I think my best option is to have options - who knows what life will bring!

 

[Amethyst]

We hear this over and over and over. What do old people have against other old people?

My other grandmother made the move to a continuing care facility at 91 (moving from Arizona to Chicago to be closer to two of her granddaughters). She didn't love it ("too many old people there"),

 

[GrayHare]

Reading this makes me want to create a residential community specially designed for us, a real-life extension of what we have at E-R.org. If it were doable, which I highly doubt, it could be a decent solution for many of us in our later years.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Reading this makes me want to create a residential community specially designed for us, a real-life extension of what we have at E-R.org. If it were doable, which I highly doubt, it could be a decent solution for many of us in our later years.

A good idea, but I think most of us are spread to the four corners of the world! But creating communes for older/single/childfree (or childless) could be a great idea.

 

[Amethyst]

But would we like it? Too many old people!

I mean...when did you ever hear a child say they didn't want to live someplace because there are "too many kids my age there"?

It doesn't make sense...why don't old people want to be around others who are going through the same things and will understand?

Cancer victims, alcoholics, people of every description seek out the support of others who are going through the same stuff. Why should old people be different?

A good idea, but I think most of us are spread to the four corners of the world! But creating communes for older/single/childfree (or childless) could be a great idea.

 

[irishgal]

We hear this over and over and over. What do old people have against other old people?

My dad and my mom checked out a very nice place in Newport Beach, CA, where they still live, it was the type of place where you buy in and pay a monthly fee. Great place. Ocean view, town car service to anywhere, the whole thing.
He was horrified at all "the old people". And as you can imagine these were the pretty damn healthy and good looking old people, but he, at 86 does not relate to them.

Of course this is a guy who despite being 86 has been working with a bunch of other "not old" old guys for the last 5 years to develop, successfully, technology that can ID cancer markers in blood about 200x earlier than current technology.




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Sarah in SC]

Because if you "think" you are in better shape than those "old people", then seeing them (and your future) is too depressing to contemplate.
This is why I hang out with younger people!

 

[irishgal]

Because if you "think" you are in better shape than those "old people", then seeing them (and your future) is too depressing to contemplate.
This is why I hang out with younger people!

I think my strategy might be to hang out with old but active and fun old people so I can be the youngster in the group.

 

[ChicagoGal]

We hear this over and over and over. What do old people have against other old people?

I think for my grandmother, anyway, she wasn't admitting to herself that she was that old. But being around other folks her age (many who were more infirm than she was, for sure), it made her feel every year.

 

[Amethyst]

I imagine people are wondering why I harped on this topic in this way, but it really is relevant to the OP. The OP has to do with the dilemma of not having close family members or friends to count on when you are very old.

In addition, it would appear that when you are very old, even people your own age won't want to have anything to do with you. Am I the only one who finds this rather distressing?