Neighbor's Wood Smoke Unbearable; Appears There's No Legal Recourse; What to Do?

[Bigdawg]

Or, as FDC319 stated, city folks are a pain in the rear as far as some rural folks are concerned. If that's the case here for the neighbors, particularly with the fire Marshall visit, I would just move and avoid interacting with them at all.

Concur. If I was the local wood fire guy and you (from the new development next door) came over to talk to me about the smoke from my wood burning stove I would tell you to pack sand.

 

[NateW]

Agreed. Speaking as someone who despised the last house we lived in for 23 years, don't stay. It really doesn't get better. Also realize where you move to might have its own set of annoyances. I'm learning that now, albeit a lot less and more manageable than our previous house.

Thanks Statesman.Yes, we plan to cut our losses and move on. We are expanding our list of deal breaker things to check. It seems to be the ones you would never think of, though, that gets you. I hope my experience prevents others from going through this.

 

[NateW]

I think you've come to the right decision: plan a move for Spring/Summer and invest in some mitigation (filtration) for the short term. It would be different if you both loved everything else about the house but that is clearly not the case. No point in trying for a permanent fix for the smoke when the other issues remain.

Thanks Ivan S, excellent summary of our plan to move forward. The most challenging thing for us to solve is where to move to.

 

[Time2]

If you have more filter area, you can use a higher number MERV. I haven't looked, but I'm sure there are some numbers you can crunch to see how much extra area you need to go from MERV 11 to MERV 13.

 

[NateW]

This is one reason when we look at homes, I ask the agent if the owner can be present. They usually comply. My strategy is to have my wife talk to the agent and then I walk around with the owner and complement things around the house and property and then let them do most of the talking. They usually let things slip without knowing.

For example, one house we looked at the owner stated there is small airplane noise due to a small airport being close by...major red flag. He also said there was very strict rules about what can be done with the property such as even cutting a branch on an oak tree. Another major red flag. We ended up passing on that.

Wait till spring, when the air is clear and put it on the market if nothing gets resolved.

Thanks Bob, I just added your strategy to our list of things to do. Winchester Airport is 6 miles from us and we hear the small piston engine planes frequently. I noticed this on day one. It's another minor annoyance.

 

[NateW]

We see that a lot with the HOAs here in Central Texas. Unfortunately, a lot wasn't spelled out in the area we moved into because the 120 house tract was still in a building phase when we purchased a lot late in 2018. The HOA was held by a holding company and not much other than the basics were spelled out. The last house build completed in May 2020.

So, just this past week we received both an email and snail mail about the rules and regulations for our HOA. Nearly everything outside must be approved by the HOA, and heck, I think if I want to replace some perennials I planted in April of this year, I might need that approved too (they use the word "landscape" to cover themselves).

California has its own set of regulations that drive homeowners up the wall, but I could do just about anything with the landscape I wanted. Replace a tree? No problem. Remove the lawn? No problem. Now, if the yard were to turn into an eyesore or full of weeds, that would get a reaction from city officials.

In Virginia if you are buying and will have an HOA, at closing you have to sign a statement attesting you read and will abide by the HOA rules and covenants.

I do all of our automotive repair and maintenance on our 2 cars. We almost did not buy this house because the Rules stated, "There shall be no automotive repair or maintenance on the property." Heck, this is a single family home with a 2 car garage. So I called the management compay and said I would not purchase the property unless I got it in writing that I can work on my cars in my garage with the garage door closed. I got it in an email.

Oh, our requirement for lawns is no more than 25% weeds and the grass must be between 2 and 6 inches in height.

I wanted to put up a 6 by 7 foot vinyl shed under my deck that is 9 feet off the ground. No one would ever see it because it was hidden by the back of the house and deck. Vinyl was not an excluded shed material, the houses are vinyl sided and vinyl fences are allowed. The management company senior staff reviewed my request, did not send it to the HOA board and flatly denied it stating vinyl is not an allowed shed material. Well it must be because people under this HOA have vinyl sheds. I do not like HOAs!

 

[Amethyst]

I keep chuckling because people are talking about "chords" of wood. Chords are music. Maybe from a musical saw? lol Anyway, firewood comes in cords:

https://www.chainsawjournal.com/how-much-is-a-cord-of-wood-and-more-firewood-facts/

 

[RunningBum]

FWIW, I've found that inversions are most common in December. I've been in VA nearly 20 years now, a few miles south of SNP, and that's my informal observations. It's mostly from watching temps to see when snow making can happen at the ski resort, and being frustrated when the valley is colder. So maybe the rest of winter will be better.

 

[NateW]

That is very, very sick. Just sayin' ........

That is how I felt when I wrote the statement. I saw it as the only thing that would end this nightmare until we can get out of here. Over the last 2 months my life has evolved around whether or not the chimney is smoking and if so, which way is the wind blowing to figure out when and for how long we can get an air exchange and how to minimize the agony it is causing and whether or not DW and I will loose use of our home during the United States worst pandemic, which I think would greatly increase our risk of getting Covid. DW is in one of the high risk groups. There are also medical and other issues I noted in a previous post.

This event is the third most stressful thing that happened to me in my life (The most stressful event was discovering my now ex wife was cheating on me and the 2nd most stressful life event was at age 19 being told by a neurosurgeon that my dad had 6 months to a year to live due to an inoperable geoblastoma (brain tumor), and the stress level is close to event #2. This is the 2nd most stressful event in DW's life.

At this point I don't wish a house fire to plague the person who generates the smoke (that I equated to the problem causer), I retract that statement, as I am a little more level-headed today. Now I just wish to move on. I have realized that the true culprit here is lack of state or local laws protecting their citizens in this situation.

 

[RobbieB]

Just give them some wood. It's Christmas eh?

Merry Christmas!

 

[NateW]

If your other neighbors don't seem bothered, have you considered the possibility that you and your wife are more allergic to the smoke than other people? There are ways to potentially reduce allergic reactions with supplements, diet changes and maybe become less sensitive if you can boost body's ability to detoxify allergens better. One of our relatives was really chemically sensitive and we got them over it with correcting some nutritional deficiencies and diet changes.

Not that breathing smoke is healthy, but if you implement some of the other suggestions here like offering to pay for less green wood, filtering your house more and becoming less sensitive to the smoke, you might not have to move. I mean you could move and have the same thing happen again. I remember going to a mesquite barbecue once with friends and I was getting a headache from the smoke while everyone else was having a good time, so I knew it was kind of my issue to work on.

You raise a valid point. My mother had super sensitive smell and could not stand certain odors. DW comments that I do as well. I'm also home 24 hours a day, so that could be part of the problem. Today I took a walk in the neighborhood and a 20 mph wind was blowing from due west and I started walking east with the wind along our street. I smelled the smoke at least 20 houses away. Dropping in offensiveness fairly rapidly. After a few houses it takes on this acrid nonsmoky stench (which is what I smelled at first when moving here) and people would have no idea what it is or where from. I didn't until recently.

 

[NateW]

While the noise is cool. Think I'm kidding, check out some youtube videos of truck restorations.

In reality it is a good way to bleed off speed without the issues of rowing through gears, cutting a ton of speed prior to the next uphill, burning excess fuel, or using the regular brakes. 81 with its hills and curves are prime areas for this.

Some examples in here:

That makes perfect sense. If we planned to stay I'd consider asking the state to put a sign up staying, "Residential area, truckers do not use engine brakes".

 

[NateW]

...I don't do the whole karma thing, but with your comment above, I would probably be the first one laughing if your movers burned your stuff down and you got into a car wreck on the way to your next destination.

Please see post 159 where I retract the comment about a chimney fire burning their house down; thanks.

 

[NateW]

I agree. Don't make this into a full time project and worry either.
If you found some relief with the fireplace sealing then give that a little time and see how you two are feeling. It seems certain you will sell in the spring anyway. Get the air filter installed and try to enjoy the winter as much as possible.
I realize that it is easy for me to say but I truly hope you find some relief from all the angst.

Thank you for your good advice and kind words Finniski1.

 

[NateW]

I may have missed it, but how old is your house? Is it by any chance still covered under the builder's warranty? If it is, you MIGHT be able to seek recourse through that avenue. Granted, the odds are [-]pretty[/-] very slim, but my DW has been successful in getting some builders to fix stuff they might ordinarily not cover (she was an R/E agent at the time and sold a good number of said builder's homes, so there was an incentive for them to go the extra mile). It couldn't hurt to try"

Built in 2012. The warranty was a year for general construction issues I believe. Someone here tried unsuccessfully to get the builder to fix a ceiling ruined by a leaky shower.

 

[NateW]

This is an extremely rough story to read. It's tough when you have little to no control over your environment inside of your house. Our old house had a bit of a problem like yours, but nowhere near as extreme. It was a residential house, in the heart of Silicon Valley, with restricted fire burn days in California, and yet we could smell the burning of unseasoned wood seep into our house. We suspect someone (or a few someones) was burning construction wood among others. Eventually, it stopped as I think the people in question moved out of the area (might have been renters).

As bad as that was, nothing will ever top the horror of having skunks burrow their way into the crawlspace under our house and have the female(s) spray there to start the mating process. It was brutal, and it took two Winters to figure out all of the locations they utilized to get under the house and block those up.

A few years later, we had the entire ductwork in the crawlspace replaced as the smells had permeated it. A few years later the skunk smells from the crawlspace had finally disappeared.

It was something we noted in the disclosure when selling our house. We were able to say it had been 19 years since the last time a skunk got under the house (as far as we knew), and the inspectors (some paid for by the buyers) could check around for any evidence of recent skunk traffic. There was none.

I think you may have had it worse with the skunks. I could not imagine what that was like. I think DW and I can make it a couple of more months once we get the electronic air filter installed. I just don't like the idea of having to move.

 

[NateW]

Hi Nate,
Actually I think things like this occur more often then you think, whether it's a smoke, noise, lights, dog barking, etc with a neighbor. As I said in one of my previous post, we had a neighbor blasting music and when my wife asked them to turn it down, they cranked it up. Then they started playing music 2AM. This went on for months. Then to other dilemma is what do you do about it? Hope it fizzles, call the cops, go over there with a baseball bat.

Another house we lived at, the neighbors decided to hot tub and drink at 2AM, which of course was 10 feet from our bedroom windows. Again, this went on almost every night for months. I did speak to them, they were nice, but no resolution. Fortunately, we were renting and about to move anyways.

Sorry to read about your issue, hopefully if this doesn't get resolved you'll find peace in your next place. Daily worry/anxiety about these issues is bad for your health.

Again thanks for your kind words. Sorry you and your wife experienced bad neighbor problems. That has always been a concern, but I have fared well in that area. I've watched some of those "neighbors from hell" Youtube videos. That would certainly ruin my retirement.

 

[NateW]

I keep chuckling because people are talking about "chords" of wood. Chords are music. Maybe from a musical saw? lol Anyway, firewood comes in cords:

https://www.chainsawjournal.com/how-much-is-a-cord-of-wood-and-more-firewood-facts/

Thanks for the correction Amethyst. I wondered if "cord" was the correct word, but failed to check. When I wo*ked I did a lot of technical editing and was picky about proper word usage, and always glad to have the correct usage pointed out to me.

 

[pb4uski]

That makes perfect sense. If we planned to stay I'd consider asking the state to put a sign up staying, "Residential area, truckers do not use engine brakes".

Nate, it seems that you have a lot of sensitivities... smoke when your neighbors don't, airplanes, truck engine braking... you may want to reconsider if rural life is your cup of tea.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Natew - Magnesium deficiencies are really common and may be linked to chemical and noise sensitivities. A functional medical doctor could run tests for that or similar issues.

These kinds of issues seem to run in my family so I'm pretty familiar with them but on the plus side they do seem to be fairly correctable with testing, supplements and maybe diet changes.

 

[Amethyst]

I was not picking on you, nor am I particularly picky about the words others use. More than one commenter used "chord" and it just struck me funny. I envisioned giant wind chimes made of logs

Thanks for the correction Amethyst. I wondered if "cord" was the correct word, but failed to check. When I wo*ked I did a lot of technical editing and was picky about proper word usage, and always glad to have the correct usage pointed out to me.

 

[FDC319]

That makes perfect sense. If we planned to stay I'd consider asking the state to put a sign up staying, "Residential area, truckers do not use engine brakes".

You said you live near a major highway. That isn't a residential area. Lots of hills on the western side of Virginia. A sound barrier like you see on some highways wouldn't be a bad idea as it doesn't force many people to modify their behavior for the few sensitive people out there. A sound barrier would likely be a better option as it helps deaden tire noise which IMO is more annoying than exhaust brakes.

Please see post 159 where I retract the comment about a chimney fire burning their house down; thanks.

All you did is try to justify your desire to burn this family's house to the ground with a little oopsy-just kidding at the end.

Here is the deal-YOU are the problem in this situation. You chose to move out of the city to one of the standard pop up neighborhoods that developers drop into old cow pastures. No issues with that-I lived in an old corn field in one state, and judging by the old granite walls & buried rusted barbed wire around my current place, I'm in a cow pasture here.

YOU have refused to assimilate into your new environment and instead seek to force others to modify their behavior based on your desires. Even to the point of researching legal means and government official harassment. You know what would have happened if this family was forced to go away from wood? They would have had to spend a significant amount of money installing new heat. Money they may not have-all because of YOU.

You can put all the health concern lipstick on this that you want it is still your issue and yours alone. Health issues suck, but we all have them and other than some disabilities covered under federal law it is incumbent upon ourselves to adapt versus forcing someone to accommodate us.

 

[FDC319]

Nate, it seems that you have a lot of sensitivities... smoke when your neighbors don't, airplanes, truck engine braking... you may want to reconsider if rural life is your cup of tea.

That's as nice polite way of saying it.

 

[FDC319]

I was not picking on you, nor am I particularly picky about the words others use. More than one commenter used "chord" and it just struck me funny. I envisioned giant wind chimes made of logs

I too chuckled at the "chords" thing. Of course, I think we have all been guilty of similiar.

 

[JustCurious]

I do not like HOAs!

That was your first mistake, buying a home with a HOA.