Very distressing encounter

bmcgonig said:
They cope by covering?
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Not certain your point?

To elaborate on mine. I do not believe that dementia et al patients are actively trying to deceive those around as to their decline. Instead, the brain looks for ways to adapt (cope with) declining/changing skills, which to an outsider could be seen as covering behavior.

Put another way the body/brain tries to "right the ship" the best it can.
 
mystang52 said:
This is depressing to read. Aging is not pleasant at that point.
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The alternative may be worse.:blush:


As far as "covering", the patient will speak in generalities, and not be tied to a specific fact. DW and I have experienced this behavior with several relatives on both sides of family.
 
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harley said:
I saw my neighbor earlier today. We were driving past his house, and he was out in the garden putzing with his flowers as usual. I didn't stop or talk to him, but it was good to see him out there doing what he enjoys. Gives me hope.
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Not sure what's wrong with him, but my mom had dementia for about 7 years. She still putzed around the garden but always forgot what she was watering...she didn't know the day of the month, the month, or the season, most often.
 
LARS said:
Not certain your point?

To elaborate on mine. I do not believe that dementia et al patients are actively trying to deceive those around as to their decline. Instead, the brain looks for ways to adapt (cope with) declining/changing skills, which to an outsider could be seen as covering behavior.

Put another way the body/brain tries to "right the ship" the best it can.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree but my DF's words were he was afraid he would be put away because of his issues. He claimed he was just more successful in hiding his dementia than DM.

The background was he watched DM be totally out of it for years. She had dementia but was spared the horrific issues many have. Happy as could be, folks who didn't know she was ill, and only had casual short, conversation might not know. Her brain only had a few real stories of her life and she would loop through them.

In the end she was in a nursing home because she couldn't transfer.. not her diminished memories. DF couldn't understand the difference.

He quite clearly hid his issues for false fears. It took my sisters and me a long time to understand it. All of our understanding came way after the fact. It seemed very clear from the rear view mirror how ill he had been.

I'll never forget him telling me to drive his Chrysler up over a curb and down the sidewalk to pass the school bus unloading children. DM was in a scheduled medical transport and we were simply going to be a couple hundred yards behind. The really messed up part is they were still living independently when this happened.

Took a couple of years before it unraveled.
 
LARS said:
I take exception to your choice of word: "covering". It implies deception on the part of the inflicted.

I think a better, kinder explanation is the human brain does its best to "cope" or "adapt" with dementia/Alzheimer’s until it is overwhelmed by the disease.
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I agree. By covering I meant behavior that masked the actions to family and neighbors that only see the victims occasionally.

Thank you for the gentle correction
 
MRG said:
The really messed up part is they were still living independently when this happened.
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A salesperson at a Brookdale care facility put it like this: There is never a perfect time to transition to assisted living. It's either too early, or too late." In my mom's case, it was after she fell and broke her pelvis, so, too late to potentially prevent the injury. BUT...due her friends and I helping out, she was able to stay at home for 2 years longer than she would have otherwise been able to.
 
As my dear mom reminds me, “gettin’ old ain’t for sissies!”
 
I saw him again today. Driving by again while he was out in his garden. I stopped to talk for a few minutes. He was friendly enough, but answered all comments very vaguely, never any name use or personal responses indicating he was talking to someone he knew. It sounded very much like some of the coping/concealing behaviors mentioned here. I'm getting fairly convinced he's suffering from some form of significant memory loss, but it's one that seems to have come on pretty quickly. DW still wants to contact his wife, but I'm not sure that's a good idea yet. I'm hoping an opportunity will present itself for clarifying the situation, but it probably won't.
 
Yep, those with dementia can hide it a very long time.

Mom wasn't officially diagnosed until around age 50, but she was divorced around age 40, and going back through her financial records just a year or so after her divorce she was no longer able to balance her checkbook, i.e., add/subtract 3 or 4 digit numbers.

Since she didn't work (lifetime alimony) and lived alone she was able to keep to her routine for an extended period before anyone noticed what was wrong.
 
First person experience. As some know, from older posts, initial onset of memory problems came on about 5 years ago. Now, @ age 82, just a fact of life that requires adjustment.

The initial reaction was one of periodic depression and a look to the family for sympathy and understanding. Of course, this appeal was rejected... "You're fine.... Look... we all have lapses of memory. You're overthinking this!"

Gradually this gave way to grudging acceptance... not because they believed, but that it was okay if it made me happy. Today, we have a much better mutual understanding, which makes my life more comfortable.

Describing the slide into dementia from a personal standpoint is not easy. On the one hand, the deeper intellect is largely intact, but the short term challenges are daunting. Most difficult are the social aspects. As a onetime leader, organizer and "people" person, continuing the social part of what I used to do, requires major changes in personal interactions. As I organize and run several scheduled events in our CCRC, I've had to learn a new way of relating to others. No longer able to put faces and names together, or even to remember names alone, has meant developing an over-friendly general approach to hide the problem, and, instead of recalling recent conversations or events, have resorted to little "tricks" to let others fill in details that I can't recall.

Brings us to today. Very much aware of ever increasing changes to the "normal" life activities. Still in the process of making adjustments to minimize the effect. Most difficult is overcoming the inevitable sadness that accompanies the problem. Slowly coming under control with grudging acceptance. Jeanie has been my support with love and understanding. Together we are working on the things we see as being critical to the time we have left. Simplifying our lives. Organizing time and effort to make the most of what we have. Looking ahead to the things that will inevitably become problematic, and seeking alternatives. In effect, decluttering the mind of the angst that naturally occurs with confusion.

Helpful "stuff". A tamping down of the curiosity and interest level. Less of the wanting to know everything, and more of enjoying the basic pleasures of life. No more reading... less interest in the local "news", balancing "outside the home" pleasures... entertainment, eating out, visiting, long drives in the country and travel... with the ease of watching a good movie.

So, yes... no worldwide travel at age 95... no Senior Swimming Masters events that I had planned on... and we missed my 60th college reunion. The email relationships with old friends has gradually disappeared. Our kids come to see us, we don't travel to see them, and this weekend we'll miss our grandson's wedding in Pittsburg.

With all of that, we're still coming to a pretty good place in life. Things like posting on ER, take longer, and sometimes get repetitive and confused. It takes a lot longer to find "words", and remembrance of things past often jump from days, to years to decades, but all in all, life is very good and it's still quite easy to find things to make us happy.

I suppose it's not "growing old gracefully", but learning to accept, and take life in stride. :flowers:
 
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Your friend's body is outlasting his mind. It happens to a lot of people. Your friend may or may not have a degenerative dementia. A stroke can damage memory without changing other physical aspects. It doesn't matter; he is still a changed man.

A very difficult aspect, especially for your friend's wife, is that other people are often so creeped-out by the changes, by not knowing how to act around the changed person, and by the natural fear of "it could happen to me too," that they just drop away, and the couple gets very lonely. I think that is where your instincts of "wanting to help" should be focused. Whatever your relationship was with the couple before, I think it would be kind if you to maintain it as much as possible.
 
IM, thanks for sharing a difficult story. A friend of mine got early Alzheimer’s and all her friends disappeared. My husband and I continued our friendship with dinners out, etc. She was very social but conversations became hard. Then her husband got terminal cancer and he couldn’t drive but had wanted to go on vacation to celebrate their 25th anniversary. So we all took the trip together. She wanted to go to Santa Barbara where she grew up so we went there too. As it turned out good thing we didn’t wait because he got to sick to travel, I had to put her in a home and he died. A year later she died. We were the only people that visited even though they had much closer friends than us. It was really sad.
 
Katsmeow said:
... The final determination was that she had an unusually long episode of delirium probably brought on by the fall, surgery and weight loss. Delirium had been considered. But, usually it doesn't last all that long. Hers lasted for months.

Anyway, she was just recently discharged from the facility and is back home doing fine so far. The clue that this was not a real dementia was that she got started improving as she gained weight and healed from her physical problems related to the fall. With a true dementia she wouldn't have gotten better.
Click to expand...

I recently read that a diet high in fat helps the brain function better. I don't know if this is yet widely accepted.
 
harley said:
I saw him again today. Driving by again while he was out in his garden. I stopped to talk for a few minutes. He was friendly enough, but answered all comments very vaguely, never any name use or personal responses indicating he was talking to someone he knew. It sounded very much like some of the coping/concealing behaviors mentioned here. I'm getting fairly convinced he's suffering from some form of significant memory loss, but it's one that seems to have come on pretty quickly. DW still wants to contact his wife, but I'm not sure that's a good idea yet. I'm hoping an opportunity will present itself for clarifying the situation, but it probably won't.
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If you’ve been friendly enough to go out to dinner, and are interested in staying social/supportive with them, accommodating whatever changes. Then I don’t see why your DW shouldn’t reach out - she doesn’t need to ask about anything and IMO shouldn’t. She can just visit with her friend. Whether her friend discloses anything- well it’s probably best not to pry. Just let it be known you are willing to be there as friends.
 
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imoldernu said:
First person experience. As some know, from older posts, initial onset of memory problems came on about 5 years ago. Now, @ age 82, just a fact of life that requires adjustment.

The initial reaction was one of periodic depression and a look to the family for sympathy and understanding. Of course, this appeal was rejected... "You're fine.... Look... we all have lapses of memory. You're overthinking this!"

Gradually this gave way to grudging acceptance... not because they believed, but that it was okay if it made me happy. Today, we have a much better mutual understanding, which makes my life more comfortable.

Describing the slide into dementia from a personal standpoint is not easy. On the one hand, the deeper intellect is largely intact, but the short term challenges are daunting. Most difficult are the social aspects. As a onetime leader, organizer and "people" person, continuing the social part of what I used to do, requires major changes in personal interactions. As I organize and run several scheduled events in our CCRC, I've had to learn a new way of relating to others. No longer able to put faces and names together, or even to remember names alone, has meant developing an over-friendly general approach to hide the problem, and, instead of recalling recent conversations or events, have resorted to little "tricks" to let others fill in details that I can't recall.

Brings us to today. Very much aware of ever increasing changes to the "normal" life activities. Still in the process of making adjustments to minimize the effect. Most difficult is overcoming the inevitable sadness that accompanies the problem. Slowly coming under control with grudging acceptance. Jeanie has been my support with love and understanding. Together we are working on the things we see as being critical to the time we have left. Simplifying our lives. Organizing time and effort to make the most of what we have. Looking ahead to the things that will inevitably become problematic, and seeking alternatives. In effect, decluttering the mind of the angst that naturally occurs with confusion.

Helpful "stuff". A tamping down of the curiosity and interest level. Less of the wanting to know everything, and more of enjoying the basic pleasures of life. No more reading... less interest in the local "news", balancing "outside the home" pleasures... entertainment, eating out, visiting, long drives in the country and travel... with the ease of watching a good movie.

So, yes... no worldwide travel at age 95... no Senior Swimming Masters events that I had planned on... and we missed my 60th college reunion. The email relationships with old friends has gradually disappeared. Our kids come to see us, we don't travel to see them, and this weekend we'll miss our grandson's wedding in Pittsburg.

With all of that, we're still coming to a pretty good place in life. Things like posting on ER, take longer, and sometimes get repetitive and confused. It takes a lot longer to find "words", and remembrance of things past often jump from days, to years to decades, but all in all, life is very good and it's still quite easy to find things to make us happy.

I suppose it's not "growing old gracefully", but learning to accept, and take life in stride. :flowers:
Click to expand...

Perhaps the single most heart breaking conversation I ever had with my father was when he said to me, "You need to realize I'm not your father anymore". He was, of course, referring to his declining mental state.

I wish you the best on your journey...
 
imoldernu said:
First person experience. As some know, from older posts, initial onset of memory problems came on about 5 years ago. Now, @ age 82, just a fact of life that requires adjustment.

The initial reaction was one of periodic depression and a look to the family for sympathy and understanding. Of course, this appeal was rejected... "You're fine.... Look... we all have lapses of memory. You're overthinking this!"

Gradually this gave way to grudging acceptance... not because they believed, but that it was okay if it made me happy. Today, we have a much better mutual understanding, which makes my life more comfortable.

Describing the slide into dementia from a personal standpoint is not easy. On the one hand, the deeper intellect is largely intact, but the short term challenges are daunting. Most difficult are the social aspects. As a onetime leader, organizer and "people" person, continuing the social part of what I used to do, requires major changes in personal interactions. As I organize and run several scheduled events in our CCRC, I've had to learn a new way of relating to others. No longer able to put faces and names together, or even to remember names alone, has meant developing an over-friendly general approach to hide the problem, and, instead of recalling recent conversations or events, have resorted to little "tricks" to let others fill in details that I can't recall.

Brings us to today. Very much aware of ever increasing changes to the "normal" life activities. Still in the process of making adjustments to minimize the effect. Most difficult is overcoming the inevitable sadness that accompanies the problem. Slowly coming under control with grudging acceptance. Jeanie has been my support with love and understanding. Together we are working on the things we see as being critical to the time we have left. Simplifying our lives. Organizing time and effort to make the most of what we have. Looking ahead to the things that will inevitably become problematic, and seeking alternatives. In effect, decluttering the mind of the angst that naturally occurs with confusion.

Helpful "stuff". A tamping down of the curiosity and interest level. Less of the wanting to know everything, and more of enjoying the basic pleasures of life. No more reading... less interest in the local "news", balancing "outside the home" pleasures... entertainment, eating out, visiting, long drives in the country and travel... with the ease of watching a good movie.

So, yes... no worldwide travel at age 95... no Senior Swimming Masters events that I had planned on... and we missed my 60th college reunion. The email relationships with old friends has gradually disappeared. Our kids come to see us, we don't travel to see them, and this weekend we'll miss our grandson's wedding in Pittsburg.

With all of that, we're still coming to a pretty good place in life. Things like posting on ER, take longer, and sometimes get repetitive and confused. It takes a lot longer to find "words", and remembrance of things past often jump from days, to years to decades, but all in all, life is very good and it's still quite easy to find things to make us happy.

I suppose it's not "growing old gracefully", but learning to accept, and take life in stride. :flowers:
Click to expand...



Imoldernu, thank you for this post. You have not lost your eloquence. I think this is a beautiful way to describe difficult changes and your approach to living the good life. My 82 yo MIL told me that “acceptance is the key to happiness” and it appears you’re on the same page.

I am grateful to have wisdom like this shared ... makes the anticipation of what may come in the future a little less scary.
 
I suppose it's not "growing old gracefully", but learning to accept, and take life in stride. :flowers:
Click to expand...
I have to agree. Once I realized I could not race up to the top of the bell tower in some Italian city, I had a much nicer time walking up slowly, stopping to take photos and admiring/wondering how it was built way back them with just people and animal power.

A friend of mine in his later 70's decided he no longer wanted to drive if he had to make left turns on busy streets. So, he got out his map marked the places he usually drove to and worked out routes that were mostly right turns. It turned out that he was years ahead of his time:

Bob Stoffel, Senior VP of UPS, revealed an unusual way to save time and money to Fortune :

Stop making left-hand turns.

Engineers map out every route, he says, and provide right-turn only directions to drivers.
Click to expand...
 
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imoldernu, than you for the inspiring post! I hope for you that you may hold onto your independence as long as possible. Best wishes.
 
Another friend went into a care facility 4 years ago. His wife had preceded him with advanced Alzheimers by 3 years. He is still going strong at 88. And she does not know him.
 
harley said:
I saw him again today. Driving by again while he was out in his garden. I stopped to talk for a few minutes. He was friendly enough, but answered all comments very vaguely, never any name use or personal responses indicating he was talking to someone he knew. It sounded very much like some of the coping/concealing behaviors mentioned here. I'm getting fairly convinced he's suffering from some form of significant memory loss, but it's one that seems to have come on pretty quickly. DW still wants to contact his wife, but I'm not sure that's a good idea yet. I'm hoping an opportunity will present itself for clarifying the situation, but it probably won't.
Click to expand...

I'm not certain of your actual relationship with this couple. There is no reason one or both of you can't just act normally. If you go out together once in awhile try to set up a dinner or coffee date. Invite them over for lemonade in the backyard. You don't need to avoid them or wait forever until the overstressed and worried wife contacts you. Just don't call and say what's up with your hubby? Isolation is a huge issue in cases like this. The caretaking spouse and the dementia sufferer still need social contact.
 
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