Bitcoin -What do you know?

[NW-Bound]

I don’t know why I even bother to reapply to this topic because everyone just wants to make fun of Bitcoin. Ugh!

Nobody questioned that you made good money being in Bitcoin early. Many envy you, I am sure.

But the question is, does Bitcoin and its ilk have long lasting values? Most don't think so.

 

[NW-Bound]

Quantum Computing (QC) will end bitcoin sometime in the next 1-15 years.... speed in computing will turn exponential when QC arrives. All keys, private/public, encryption today, will be naked to these new devices that can crack brute force mechanisms in fractions of a second due to the new way machine will handle data. As one person put it in simple terms: "Quantum computers are able to run Shor’s algorithm, a quantum algorithm that can find the 2 primes of a semiprime in quadratic time. Since this would break the private/public key encryption, it would be possible to reverse someone's private key from their address. This would destroy bitcoin in its current state."...

Encryption is used in more places than Bitcoin implementation, and breaking it would wreak total havoc on our financial system now.

But thanks goodness, it is premature to think of QC getting to that point any time soon.

See the following video, and skip to 15:00 when two experts in the QC field discuss exactly that.

 

[sengsational]

I agree with NW... I'd be WAY more worried about the effect quantum computing has on public key crypto than the effect on crypto currencies. Although I should add, elliptical curve crypto doesn't have a ready quantum computing algorithm as does prime factorization, and elliptical curve has decent current adoption, so it could take over if it needed to.

And I'm less than convinced that really useful quantum computing will be realized any time soon.

 

[sengsational]

YMWDV (your mileage will definitely vary)

That's one thing I took from your post that I agree with

Any idea that the algorithm itself has value in itself probably isn't the kind of thinking that's going to get you very far; the code itself is usually open source and available for free. Now, those who implement the algorithm early (miners that get in on the ground floor), that's where the value is. Not initially, because at that point, not enough people value the fact that someone solved a few computer puzzles. But if a bunch of "greater fools" coming along later and putting a value on the fact that these early miners have proven they've solved some puzzles, then that creates value "out of thin air".

It's about scarcity and about convincing enough people that there's value in this scarce thing. They used to pay people with salt (the source of the word "salary"), because it was scarce. As soon as something isn't scarce, it quits working as something that can store value and be used as a proxy for goods and services. The block chain is simply a means for "everyone" to verify that it's a legit member of a specific set of scarce things (bitcoin, in this thread).

 

[Cobra9777]

I don't know very much about cryptocurrencies. I've read some websites and watched some documentaries. So I probably know more than the average person on the street. It really doesn't feel much like "currency" yet because the value fluctuates like crazy and it really can't be used as a form of payment. But I'm also fascinated with anything that stirs up central banks and government regulators. I like the idea of decentralized, anonymous transactions with no fees, and no central intervention in the supply. Or at least, I "think" I do.

I also think that blockchain technology is fascinating. Some of the potential applications I've read about sound like it could help solve a multitude of real-world problems. I'm not sure when or if cryptocurrencies become more than just a speculative investment. But I'm reasonably certain that blockchain is something we will be hearing a lot about in the future.

 

[imoldernu]

Originally Posted by imoldernu View Post
YMWDV (your mileage will definitely vary)

That's one thing I took from your post that I agree with

Any idea that the algorithm itself has value in itself probably isn't the kind of thinking that's going to get you very far; the code itself is usually open source and available for free. Now, those who implement the algorithm early (miners that get in on the ground floor), that's where the value is. Not initially, because at that point, not enough people value the fact that someone solved a few computer puzzles. But if a bunch of "greater fools" coming along later and putting a value on the fact that these early miners have proven they've solved some puzzles, then that creates value "out of thin air".

It's about scarcity and about convincing enough people that there's value in this scarce thing. They used to pay people with salt (the source of the word "salary"), because it was scarce. As soon as something isn't scarce, it quits working as something that can store value and be used as a proxy for goods and services. The block chain is simply a means for "everyone" to verify that it's a legit member of a specific set of scarce things (bitcoin, in this thread).

so, yeah... somehow, I think we're in the same direction, if not on the same track...

Any idea that the algorithm itself has value in itself probably isn't the kind of thinking that's going to get you very far; the code itself is usually open source and available for free.

those who implement the algorithm early (miners that get in on the ground floor), that's where the value is. Not initially, because at that point, not enough people value the fact that someone solved a few computer puzzles.

early miners have proven they've solved some puzzles, then that creates value "out of thin air".


So, I'm trying to get to the value of bitcoin #1. What is it?

It seems to me that everything begins with bitcoin number one. An Algorithm ? some kind of a "thing"... like maybe 1/2 half of a split atom? It's why I put a tradeable value on Firecalc.

We talk about trading, and Blockchain technology, and "it" and Crypto currencies.. and some far advanced quantum algorythyms and on and on ... what of any of this translates into dollars?

Seems like most people think of bitcoin as something like a giant tower, to be made of Lego blocks and which can grow ever higher because there is no end to the "block" supply.

An understandable explanation of what makes up the value of a bitcoin is just over my head. Guess I'll just leave this thread alone, since I'm the only one here that doesn't seem to understand. Too old for this.

 

[Texas Proud]

Just a curiosity question... and I know very little about block chain...


What happens to a block that has not had any activity in years? IOW, if I had a coin and held it myself on a thumb drive for 20 years... will it still be in the block?


And if so, isn't that a lot of data to keep track of?

 

[NW-Bound]

What you hold as proof of ownership of some bit coins is your cryptokey.

The block chain is a continuously growing record of transactions. It just grows and grows. Starting in 2009, it is now around 173 gigabytes in size. Multiple copies of it exist, and are stored in the numerous peer nodes that keep encoding more transactions to it.

If Bitcoin became the universal currency for the entire world, its block chain would grow by 350 gigabytes each day according to an estimate I saw. And that incremental growth had to be stored on all the nodes.

 

[aja8888]

You know, this crypto stuff sounds all good and real, but around here, there are many, many people that pay bills with cash and money orders. As a matter of judgement, I'll bet a good 50% of immigrants and low income people don't have computers or smartphones. What are they going to do if they need to pay their light bill with a bitcoin?

 

[NW-Bound]

Tough luck. It will be their problem, not ours.

I guess that 350 gigabytes/day growth of the Bitcoin chain can be revised downward.

 

[jazz4cash]

You know, this crypto stuff sounds all good and real, but around here, there are many, many people that pay bills with cash and money orders. As a matter of judgement, I'll bet a good 50% of immigrants and low income people don't have computers or smartphones. What are they going to do if they need to pay their light bill with a bitcoin?

On the CNBC special ( which was awful btw) they tried to make the case that emerging markets and unbanked individuals are the greatest opportunity for bitcoin. In reality they only made a case for financial transactions via smartphone which does not require bitcoin. And I might take that bet on % of folks with no smartphone if that includes any device that can xfer funds using the web or text. Without a personal device they would use a transfer agent like they do now.

 

[Christine]

Financial transactions by text messages already exists. Don't need Bitcoin for that - ie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

M-Pesa allows users to deposit, withdraw, transfer money and pay for goods and services (Lipa na M-Pesa) easily with a mobile device.[

 

[flintnational]

Post Bitcoin

I am trying to envision what will come after bitcoin. I imagine an advanced payment system that relies on the individual having a cheap plastic card with maybe an embedded electronic chip. In the post bitcoin world, the card would be accepted in any country at any vendor without regard for local currency. I know, sounds impossible. But, in this future world, money would be electronically transferred between all parties with little or no transaction costs. No cash needed. Of course, in the meantime we will have to get by with bitcoin.

 

[braumeister]

What a dreamer!

 

[SpartacusSchmartacus]

WOW! Tried to read every word here to get a small understanding.
Man I'm stooopid!

 

[aja8888]

What a dreamer!

Plastic cards can be lost or stolen. A chip will probably be imbedded in everyone's forehead when born to handle transactions for life.

 

[flintnational]

Plastic cards can be lost or stolen. A chip will probably be imbedded in everyone's forehead when born to handle transactions for life.

Don't tell Visa about your idea. They will set up facilities in maternity wards. They will give bonuses to Drs. for chips embedded per month. Think of the airline miles to a have chip embedded in your newborn. My kids are 32 and 26, but if the miles are enough, I will drag their b*tts in.

 

[jazz4cash]

There was a futuristic movie with J Timberlake in which time was currency. I don’t recall all the details but remember a scene where the price of a cup of coffee was raised from 12 to 15 minutes. Everyone had a chip embedded in their wrist with a display for current balance.

 

[kgtest]

There was a futuristic movie with J Timberlake in which time was currency. I don’t recall all the details but remember a scene where the price of a cup of coffee was raised from 12 to 15 minutes. Everyone had a chip embedded in their wrist with a display for current balance.

Liked the movie. A few unrealistic assumptions but overall it was good. You could give some of your time to people a I recall as well.

 

[NYEXPAT]

With the move above $7k today the analyst I follow believes probabilities are in favor of a move to $8.55K.

 

[imoldernu]

If you bought at the high last December, your current loss is nearly 70%

Dec. 17, 2018 $19343 Sept. 6, 2018 $6204

 

[albireo13]

Bitcoin
LOL


Lots of things are here to stay ... like hemorrhoids.

 

[Teacher Terry]

It didn’t stay high long so would have been a fool to buy at that price. That was when we cashed out some of ours.

 

[Out of Steam]

Financial transactions by text messages already exists. Don't need Bitcoin for that - ie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa

Venmo, which works by mobile app, is huge among my daughter and other millennials. My wife is an office manager, and had to get an account so that she could get paid for office gifts and other things by her younger co-workers.

Our daughter, in her early 20s, uses so little cash that she turns any cash she makes over to us in exchange for transferring the same amount into her checking account.

 

[TomH]

Let me help clarify some things.

First I invest in bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.
Bitcoin is one of over 1900 cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency developed in 2009 to avoid the influence of government and banks. It started off and then the creator, Satoshi Nakamoto, vanished. No one knows who he is and this name may be a pseudonym for a group or another person who wanted to remain nameless. The idea was bitcoin was going to be used by many but bitcoin has become more of an investment and it is hard to substitute it for money because the value is not stable. Thus other cryptocurrencies were created to fill this role.

Each of the different cryptocurrencies has a purpose or some are just gag coins with no real value. Whatever one plans to do, is to study it like a stock investment. Many of the cryptocurrencies will not be around and they can be seen as penny stocks.

New cryptocurrencies are called ICOs, Initial Coin Offering. Many companies promote these and I have been offered by many to get involved. But I have passed because many of these ICOs have failed or the people behind the organization took the investments of their initial investors.