Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[RonBoyd]

Streaming is clunky?!? I found cable TV terribly clunky and streaming a delightfully elegant alternative in addition to costing way less.

I agree. Our HTPC is, truth be told, quite complicated. Everything (well as much as possible) is run through a Yamaha RX-3080 AVR (which is slightly past my abilities to operate) and broadcast as 9.2 Surround Sound. I am, in the process (as I get time) programming a (Universal Remote Control) URC-450 (again a little past my ability). So currently it requires the use of four remote controls to operate everything.

Anyway, I have in the past two days been showing DW how to operate this setup. She has had no experience in this area including simple TV operation during the past thirty years. (Yeah, I am in charge of the AV but, please, don't apply any misogynist thoughts to that.)

She has had no problem with understanding or applying everything I have told her.

Admittedly, I have no experience with Cable/Satellite TV so my opinion on this matter can easily be discounted. On the other hand, I have extensive experience with streaming and have found it neither clunky nor inelegant.

(I am unsure how to mention this but, in our system, just the TV (Vizio PQ65) and the AVR cost over $4,000 - I am scared to compute the cost of the speakers. So it is not that I am looking to find the cheapest way out.. only the least user input.)

 

[Dawg52]

That's where I'm at. For just watching shows or movies, I would be ok with streaming, since I'm essentially doing that by recording them and watching them later. Nice to have them in one spot though.

For live TV (sports), I like to flip between games, and that's a pain with the various apps they might be on. Maybe with some practice I'd get the sequence down faster, but right now if I'm following games on ESPN and ESPN2 I just just use recall to switch between them. Throw in a 3rd game, and I know how to quickly bounce between, say, channels 7, 140, and 143. No searching for where my game shows up on the list, which might move as other live events end and begin.

That's what I found when streaming. Flipping back and forth is not as easy when streaming. I used Sling and later PS Vue during my 4-5 year streaming only life. As far as cost is concerned, when converting back to cable my bill was no more than what I was paying for Vue and internet. Now when the promo is over this time next year, I will reevaluate. I will say streaming is not a bad way to go if you are not into sports and can get by with a skinny package.

 

[bobandsherry]

I’m curious how much streaming you’ve experienced, and what apps? We pay about half vs satellite and we have more if anything, not less in any real way. Streaming isn’t clunky at all, the guide layout etc. is almost identical.

Well let's see, if I want to just go with my FireTV and not pay anything then there's an array of apps for each channel. If I want to go the full pay route, then I evaluated DirecTV Now, Vue, Sling TV, YouTube TV. Each fell short of my specific wants and then had to add secondary apps like Philo. So to get everything I wanted in channels, according to Suppose.TV, I'd need to get DirecTV Now and Philo and that would cost $81/mo, that's more than I'm paying for my cable service.

Anyway,as for clunky, the DVR option on DTVNow vs my Tivo is sub-par, no where near as easy to use, fast forward is buttery smooth on Tivo while not so on DTVNow. And then unless DTVNow has added it, it's missing the commercial skip function that I really find nice with my Tivo. And then each time I want to watch TV, it's turn it on and launch the DTVNow app on my FireTV vs just turn on TV, boom.

So with streaming I'd pay more, lose features and functionality that I have today. Well, I think I'll stick with my cable set-up.

So does that sound like I speak from a bit of experience? If I've missed something that perhaps is new to the streaming world since I evaluated the services, I'd be glad to learn more.

 

[bobandsherry]

I agree. Our HTPC is, truth be told, quite complicated. Everything (well as much as possible) is run through a Yamaha RX-3080 AVR (which is slightly past my abilities to operate) and broadcast as 9.2 Surround Sound. I am, in the process (as I get time) programming a (Universal Remote Control) URC-450 (again a little past my ability). So currently it requires the use of four remote controls to operate everything.

Anyway, I have in the past two days been showing DW how to operate this setup. She has had no experience in this area including simple TV operation during the past thirty years. (Yeah, I am in charge of the AV but, please, don't apply any misogynist thoughts to that.)

She has had no problem with understanding or applying everything I have told her.

Admittedly, I have no experience with Cable/Satellite TV so my opinion on this matter can easily be discounted. On the other hand, I have extensive experience with streaming and have found it neither clunky nor inelegant.

LOL - I went down that path over a decade ago, built my HTPC set-up. Thought it was really slick. While I understood it, when something went wrong my wife wasn't going to deal with it. And well, I find Tivo set-up just as nice and she really likes that experience. 3TB of storage, easy to share/view on 3 sets in the house. I can save off shows from my Tivo to PC (depending on copyright settings) if I really want to.

 

[Midpack]

Well let's see, if I want to just go with my FireTV and not pay anything then there's an array of apps for each channel. If I want to go the full pay route, then I evaluated DirecTV Now, Vue, Sling TV, YouTube TV. Each fell short of my specific wants and then had to add secondary apps like Philo. So to get everything I wanted in channels, according to Suppose.TV, I'd need to get DirecTV Now and Philo and that would cost $81/mo, that's more than I'm paying for my cable service.

Anyway,as for clunky, the DVR option on DTVNow vs my Tivo is sub-par, no where near as easy to use, fast forward is buttery smooth on Tivo while not so on DTVNow. And then unless DTVNow has added it, it's missing the commercial skip function that I really find nice with my Tivo. And then each time I want to watch TV, it's turn it on and launch the DTVNow app on my FireTV vs just turn on TV, boom.

So with streaming I'd pay more, lose features and functionality that I have today. Well, I think I'll stick with my cable set-up.

So does that sound like I speak from a bit of experience? If I've missed something that perhaps is new to the streaming world since I evaluated the services, I'd be glad to learn more.

I may be wrong, but your setup and wants are a little unusual. Fewer streams, no use for internet without streaming TV, TiVo vs (cloud) DVR, no interest in on-demand and I have no idea what you’re network/channel wants are. That might not be comparable to many users?

But fair enough.

And I agree using individual network/channel apps exclusively would be clunky, but I don’t know many people who would do that. Undoubtedly some might.

 

[RonBoyd]

LOL - I went down that path over a decade ago, built my HTPC set-up.

Yeah, I began over a decade ago, also. Apparently, I did it correctly since I still can not find an acceptable alternative. Granted, I was an early adoptee of Sage TV and getting on-board now is problematic. Nevertheless, there is no current offerings that can match SageTV... either playback or recording.

In any event, I hear you. These are interesting times.

 

[explanade]

My Comcast deal is up so with the next billing period, they're going to raise my Internet and TV bundle bill by $40-50, to about $210-220.

I'm not quite ready to cut the cord though. The streaming services don't have 5.1 sound and it sounds like the picture quality is inconsistent.

Switching from Comcast to Uverse would save some money for at least the first year. I'd lose my Tivo DVR, would have to use whatever AT&T has.

Definitely prefer having a DVR to skip over commercials. And what I've heard of cloud DVRs for streaming doesn't sound that promising.

 

[bobandsherry]

I may be wrong, but your setup and wants are a little unusual. Fewer streams, no use for internet without streaming TV, TiVo vs (cloud) DVR, no interest in on-demand and I have no idea what you’re network/channel wants are. That might not be comparable to many users?

But fair enough.

And I agree using individual network/channel apps exclusively would be clunky, but I don’t know many people who would do that. Undoubtedly some might.

Not sure what point you were trying to make. But to be clear, individual apps is not what I would use, I said that I had explored that. Just demonstrating I've done so homework on this. Def don't have need for cloud DVR, TiVo lets me view / stream from my setup. And cloud DVR doesn't even come close to TiVo user experience. So not sure why you think this would be a minority view, but ok.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Well, no one can complain that there aren't a lot of choices when it comes to TV these days.

I still have vivid memories of first getting cable TV (when A&E actually had the arts on and you could learn something on THE LEARNING CHANNEL) of my Dad yelling at me to stop spinning the rotary dial so fast and my Mom yelling at me to stop sitting so close to the massive 25" console TV. And to think...that was in 1981, not 1960...

 

[GTFan]

That's what I found when streaming. Flipping back and forth is not as easy when streaming. I used Sling and later PS Vue during my 4-5 year streaming only life. As far as cost is concerned, when converting back to cable my bill was no more than what I was paying for Vue and internet. Now when the promo is over this time next year, I will reevaluate. I will say streaming is not a bad way to go if you are not into sports and can get by with a skinny package.

OMG now you're going to be accused of 'misinforming' others here...

Look we get it streamers, cost is everything. But you sacrifice features and content in return for cheap. It all depends on what you want to watch and how you want to watch it, so simply pointing out that cable bundles with good DVRs (e.g. Tivo) can be a decent deal for some is not 'misinformation'.

 

[GTFan]

My Comcast deal is up so with the next billing period, they're going to raise my Internet and TV bundle bill by $40-50, to about $210-220.

Every two years when my current promo is up I call and select downgrade/cancel service, then a retention rep gives me the same new customer promo I got last time. Been doing this for many years now.

 

[bobandsherry]

I may be wrong, but your setup and wants are a little unusual. Fewer streams, no use for internet without streaming TV, TiVo vs (cloud) DVR, no interest in on-demand and I have no idea what you’re network/channel wants are. That might not be comparable to many users?.

Curious, what is your setup and monthly cost? I can then learn what is more comparable.

 

[REWahoo]

Every two years when my current promo is up I call and select downgrade/cancel service, then a retention rep gives me the same new customer promo I got last time. Been doing this for many years now.

That might work for those of you who have cable, but for those of us who can only get satellite there is a flaw in this strategy. While the sat folks will negotiate a deal on the programming package, they refuse (at least in my experience) to negotiate the monthly price of the hardware they supply. My recently expired two year deal guaranteeing no increase in the price of programming saw two increases in the monthly charge for each of my three receivers, increasing the annual cost by $144 since the start of the agreement.

No more playing the biennial shell game for a "discount" with a streaming service. Yes, they can increase the price whenever they want, but I can also switch to another provider whenever I want since I'm not bound to a contract.

 

[corn18]

All amounts monthly

Previous:
$162 DTV
$67 internet
$229 Total

Now:
$40 YTTV
$62 DTVN (hoping to downselect to YTTV or DTVN)
$13 Netflix
$43 internet
$158

Money is not the issue for me. Being nickel and dimed for all sorts of crap like extra boxes, HD, DVR service and who knows what else irritated me, but we could afford it.

Stuff I love about streaming:

If I want a new TV in a room, I buy a $30 stick and I can have TV in that room. No additional monthly charge. No stupid box. And if the TV has Roku built in, I don't even need a stick. This seems like how things should be.

I watch less TV because we haven't figured out how to watch more TV. Streaming is not streamlined when it comes to one stop shopping for the shows we want. It takes a lot more clicks and cursing to get to HGTV or Motorweek. As it sits right now, we just don't watch much TV because it is frustrating. That leads to us talking to each other or going outside and sitting on the back porch.

Downsides of streaming: it's the wild west out there and the amount of content is mind boggling. Trying to find the nuggets that will enrich our lives vs. wasting our minds is going to be tough. We may not have the youthful energy required to find those nuggets so we will be reduced to the old geezer mode of watching the news and reruns of Matlock.

 

[bobandsherry]

All amounts monthly

Previous:
$162 DTV
$67 internet
$229 Total

Now:
$40 YTTV
$62 DTVN (hoping to downselect to YTTV or DTVN)
$13 Netflix
$43 internet
$158

Curious, how your internet charge was reduced. If anything, your internet needs are now higher, so just can't rationalize how it went down.

 

[corn18]

Curious, how your internet charge was reduced. If anything, your internet needs are now higher, so just can't rationalize how it went down.

I moved from OH to TX. Not sure why, but I went from 20mbps @ $67 to 100mbps @ $43. Must be some intro deal that will go up in a year when I'm not paying attention.

 

[Midpack]

Curious, what is your setup and monthly cost? I can then learn what is more comparable.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/update-on-cord-cutting-cable-tv-87375-56.html#post2176992

It's not a matter of more comparable, there are no blanket conclusions any of us can make, and that's been said many times on this thread. I and others have noted what the options are, and which users would be better served by cable/satellite, streaming, OTA, etc. That cable/satellite is cheaper than streaming as a blanket statement is false. That streaming is "clunky" or harder to use at comparable price points as a blanket statement is false.

So we agree to disagree, no biggie.

[edit] $72/mo for cable w 400 channels isn't available where I am unless maybe for one TV with no DVR, and from what I've read that's unusual. I've never had TiVo, isn't that a subscription?

 

[bobandsherry]

I moved from OH to TX. Not sure why, but I went from 20mbps @ $67 to 100mbps @ $43. Must be some intro deal that will go up in a year when I'm not paying attention.

Ah, OK, so not simply because you went to streaming, a bit misleading in your comparison.

Kind of crazy that you were paying $162 for DTV, I would never pay that. I'm paying $72/mo (plus tax) for my cable package, around 400 channels (Spectrum w/Basic, Standard and Premier package), which is less than you are paying now.

 

[bobandsherry]

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/update-on-cord-cutting-cable-tv-87375-56.html#post2176992

It's not a matter of more comparable, there are no blanket conclusions any of us can make, and that's been said many times on this thread. I and others have noted what the options are, and which users would be better served by cable/satellite, streaming, OTA, etc. That cable/satellite is cheaper than streaming as a blanket statement is false. That streaming is "clunky" or harder to use at comparable price points as a blanket statement it false.

So we agree to disagree, no biggie.

Well, in looking at your set-up that's VERY clunky. You have to change from Vue to PBS, and then maybe to YouTube, then back to Vue, and then to NewsOn, and then Pluto, and then to Vue, and then Vudu, and then..... well, if that's not the definition of clunky I don't know what is.

I’m not going to provide as much detail but:

• 3 TV’s, Samsung 55” 4K fam room, Sony Bravia 40” 1080p mstr bdr, Sony Bravia 36” 720p exercise room
• 1 Roku Ultra, 2 Roku Streaming Stick +
• PlayStation Vue Core Package ($49.99/mo)
• PBS Passport ($5/mo, actually $60/yr)
• about a dozen free streaming apps/channels - YouTube, NewsOn, Weather Nation, Pluto, Vudu, Tubi, etc.
• XFinity Internet 25 mbps

 

[Midpack]

Well, in looking at your set-up that's VERY clunky. You have to change from Vue to PBS, and then maybe to YouTube, then back to Vue, and then to NewsOn, and then Pluto, and then to Vue, and then Vudu, and then..... well, if that's not the definition of clunky I don't know what is.

So we disagree on clunky too, pressing two remote buttons to switch is really tough, but no biggie. If it was difficult, DW wouldn't have adapted to it so easily. It's no more difficult than the Dish Network satellite setup we had, and PS Vue is about half the cost with arguably more features than Dish. We can watch on up to 5 devices, anywhere, including cloud DVR and a sizable on demand library. We have 60+ channels, incl 17 sports channels, almost everything we watch. The Dish package we had included 120+ channels, but we literally never watched 100 of them, pure garbage.

 

[davebarnes]

Well, I found one of the disadvantages of cord cutting. ... as it updated the software, it would no longer work. ... I am annoyed at the planned obsolescence of this technology.

Get used to it.
It is just the nature of the hardware + software business.
Just put all your hardware on a replacement schedule.
And, do not buy a smart TV and definitely not a smart refrigerator.
Wait until a software update borks your car.

P.S. When we cut the a few months ago, we had to replace 3 Apple TVs.

 

[bobandsherry]

[edit] $72/mo for cable w 400 channels isn't available where I am unless maybe for one TV with no DVR, and from what I've read that's unusual. I've never had TiVo, isn't that a subscription?

Nope, bought my Tivo now 6 years ago, lifetime subscription included (you can still get that today). Cost me a few bucks, but it has more than paid for itself vs. using cable equipment, saving recognized in under 3 years so last 3 years have been "free" so to speak.

As you never had Tivo, you don't know what you are missing. Highlights of my Tivo:
- 6 tuners w/ability to easily change to any of the 6 channels on the tuner and scroll back up to 30 minutes in the buffer
- 3 TB of DVR storage (Tivo came with 500MB drive, dropped in 3 TB drive $80, instantly formatted by Tivo for use
- Commercial skip, press one button on a majority of the major network shows and "boom", skips the commercials (that is one really, really great feature)
- Can access my Tivo through phone or tablet, set-up recording, watch live TV or view any of my recordings (so streaming from my own box)
- Can move shows from my Tivo to PC
- The UI is simple to use, FF/RW is quick and no lag (I've seen the lag on many of the streaming options and even with XFinity boxes - no thanks)
- It has apps to watch Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc directly from the Tivo box

Honestly, the Tivo Experience is second to none and it's probably what keeps me from searching out other options. I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for cable just to keep the Tivo. But I guess I get off track of the thread, except that no cord cutting for me until I can find something that provides a comparable experience, and for less than I pay today.

 

[Midpack]

^^ I admit I've never bought/used TiVo, and a 3 year payback doesn't appeal to me, especially as the (broadcast) TV landscape is changing. Am I reading this right, the lifetime TiVo subscription is $549, over and above the cost of the TiVo hardware? And a 3TB TiVo is $499? I don't care enough about TV to spend $1050 upfront and wait to breakeven on a TiVo. Others obviously do...

My priority, and presumably all "cord cutters," is to watch TV at considerably lower cost than mainstream cable/satellite. You have lots of bells & whistles that most "cord cutters" are more than willing to forego for cost savings.

Added features is more of a priority for you, though you've found a way to do it with TiVo and cable at a very good price - lower than many have access to. There's no provider in my area that even offers a 400 channel package, much less at that low a price.

I'm under no illusion there's a right answer, we/I have noted the options here several times before. You have a great setup for your needs, at a lower than average price, congrats!

 

[Corporateburnout]

Every two years when my current promo is up I call and select downgrade/cancel service, then a retention rep gives me the same new customer promo I got last time. Been doing this for many years now.

+1.

The cost of my FIOS has been the same for 8 years. I call at the end of my 2 year contract and I'm repackaged for the same price plus or minus a few bucks.

 

[bobandsherry]

^^ I admit I've never bought/used TiVo, and a 3 year payback doesn't appeal to me, especially as the (broadcast) TV landscape is changing. Am I reading this right, the lifetime TiVo subscription is $549, over and above the cost of the TiVo hardware? And a 3TB TiVo is $499? I don't care enough about TV to spend $1050 upfront and wait to breakeven on a TiVo. Others obviously do...

My priority, and presumably all "cord cutters," is to watch TV at considerably lower cost than mainstream cable/satellite. You have lots of bells & whistles that most "cord cutters" are more than willing to forego for cost savings.

Added features is more of a priority for you, though you've found a way to do it with TiVo and cable at a very good price - lower than many have access to. There's no provider in my area that even offers a 400 channel package, much less at that low a price.

I'm under no illusion there's a right answer, we/I have noted the options here several times before. You have a great setup for your needs, at a lower than average price, congrats!

Someone interested would wait for a sale. Tivo recently had a sale for Tivo Roamio Plus with lifetime sub for $449. Not sure the broadcast landscape change is that would change my use of Tivo, in fact, Tivo just announced functionality at CES where they'll support Fire TV, Roku and Apple TV to stream from the Tivo box to other TV's.

But indeed, it does end up costing a few bucks upfront. In total, I paid $800 for my Tivo, Lifetime subs and 3 Tivo mini's 6 years ago. And it's been worth it. But what you also have to factor in is that a used Tivo with lifetime sub still carries value A system similar to mine recently sold on Ebay for $520. So essentially I could sell my system today, my cost over the 6 years would then be $280 or about $45/yr.

But everyone has different needs, so fortunately lots of options for people to put together what works for them. Will be interesting to see what happens down the road.