As Things Reopen I am Voting With my Purse

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The problem is that it can be spread by people who don't know they are infected.

That is why people need to wear a mask in crowded places. I wear a cloth mask and it is not uncomfortable. I had some problem at first with fogged glasses but I solved that putting a kleenex inside my mask. The mask also helps me to remember not to touch my face. I cannot understand why all the objections to wearing a mask.
 
I wished I didn't know so much about respirators or working in contaminated areas.
When I tell you cloth does almost nothing, or N95 masks filter .3 micron and covid19 is .1 micron, I come off like a jerk. In Calif. CDC says we have had 1772 Covid deaths in 3 months. And 6929 deaths from Phenomena over the same time frame. Out of almost 40 million people. I am voting with my dollars. If a mask is required, I dont go in. If you want to wear one, great! If you want to stay home, great! As its not about safety. Not sure what its about at this point? Compliance? A placebo? An election? Calif is still locked down. With crazy rules in place. Even with some of the fewest cases per person. Even as most of the country opens up. Here are numbers from the CDC. Should make folks rest easier. Un less your in a rest home. Then I would worry. If you are sick stay home. If you have underlying conditions, wear a good mask (learn how to use it) and change it out often. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/...UrNqCCXFvxYBfcBQ_mDpuWzFoDRFW_SJMiF8XFxgrmHF8

You fail to take into account the aerosol containment if someone is infected and sneezes with a mask on vs not wearing a mask. Also, masks keep us from touching our faces after touching infected surface.
Appreciate the statistics.
 
Also, masks keep us from touching our faces after touching infected surface.
Not from what I've seen. Far too many are adjusting their masks while in the stores. This doesn't include those who have them off while walking from their vehicles to the stores. Using a cell phone to look up a list or to text while in the store is one thing. It is quite another to actually make a call, with the cellphone touching the front of the mask, assuming the person doesn't move the mask aside to talk. The South Korea study for surgical and cloth masks indicates a good portion of someone's breathing ends up on the outside of these masks. In my case, wearing a mask causes my glasses to fog up. As soon as I need to clean off those glasses, I am partially defeating the purpose of the mask.
 
I deleted my post. Carry on. One opinion here it seems. Based on the latest media blitz. At the moment.
 
We will all “vote with our purse” whether we realize it or not. Always have, always will. Every dime you spend supports the recipient business, owners, employees, sub contractors and suppliers. Businesses that don’t have enough customers will fail.
 
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I deleted my post. Carry on. One opinion here it seems. Based on the latest media blitz. At the moment.


It was a constructive and instructive post. Most folks posting here just appear highly risk adverse and so generally support and accept the conservative action plans put out by government. Many of us though have watched the data develop over time, recognize the goal of not overwhelming healthcare is met in most locations, and feel the response should now be adjusted to be less draconian and target the known higher risk areas / people and get the country’s economy moving again. Just different views of acceptable risk and consequences. So sorry you deleted it, maybe some learned from it.
 
Most folks posting here just appear highly risk adverse and so generally support and accept the conservative action plans put out by government.

I don't agree. I think there are varied opinions, across the spectrum, from bunker hunkers to YOLO. I've seen a lot of well thought out justification for many of these stances.

Most members here demonstrate that their approach is best for their own comfort level, and that they've made a data-based decision. And our members have different age ranges and health factors, and areas of the country, which they may not divulge publicly in every post.

A 47 yr old in rural TX is going to face different risks vs. a 72 yr old in MD.

The idea that our membership largely follows along with anything (gov't, media, etc.) is simply not accurate. The very reason most of us are here is because we go a bit against the grain.
 
Yeah.....I’m not wearing a mask or gloves anywhere. The places that don’t require it are getting my business. (I do carry hand sanitizer). That’s my personal choice. I worked in healthcare for 34 years and I’m fed up with all this bologna. I’m not criticizing the people that want to wear PPE as that’s their choice and keeping distance is a good thing, but wearing masks out for a walk in the fresh air to me is silly, as well as riding a bike wearing a mask, driving in your car wearing a mask and gloves, and for Pete’s sake why do some businesses have the credit card machine covered with a plastic bag? I suppose they’re keeping the machine from catching germs. On the other hand, I’m all for sick people wearing a mask if they must go out.
 
Yeah.....I’m not wearing a mask or gloves anywhere. The places that don’t require it are getting my business. (I do carry hand sanitizer). That’s my personal choice. I worked in healthcare for 34 years and I’m fed up with all this bologna. I’m not criticizing the people that want to wear PPE as that’s their choice and keeping distance is a good thing, but wearing masks out for a walk in the fresh air to me is silly, as well as riding a bike wearing a mask, driving in your car wearing a mask and gloves, and for Pete’s sake why do some businesses have the credit card machine covered with a plastic bag? I suppose they’re keeping the machine from catching germs. On the other hand, I’m all for sick people wearing a mask if they must go out.
I don’t think most people are at all worried about others wearing masks for any of the activities you describe. It’s masks when we’re indoors, close to others such as shopping (grocery or other), lining up for anything indoors, indoor group situations. Are you advocating no masks for close situations with strangers indoors too? That’s the central question.
 
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Yeah.....I’m not wearing a mask or gloves anywhere. The places that don’t require it are getting my business. (I do carry hand sanitizer). That’s my personal choice. I worked in healthcare for 34 years and I’m fed up with all this bologna. I’m not criticizing the people that want to wear PPE as that’s their choice and keeping distance is a good thing, but wearing masks out for a walk in the fresh air to me is silly, as well as riding a bike wearing a mask, driving in your car wearing a mask and gloves, and for Pete’s sake why do some businesses have the credit card machine covered with a plastic bag? I suppose they’re keeping the machine from catching germs. On the other hand, I’m all for sick people wearing a mask if they must go out.

I don't have a problem with people outside not wearing masks (where it's easy to keep a distance). I don't care if people wear masks in their cars. I would prefer that people indoors at stores and such wear masks in order to protect others (namely me), but I do understand that not all people are willing to do this.
 
Yeah.....I’m not wearing a mask or gloves anywhere. The places that don’t require it are getting my business. (I do carry hand sanitizer). That’s my personal choice. I worked in healthcare for 34 years and I’m fed up with all this bologna. I’m not criticizing the people that want to wear PPE as that’s their choice and keeping distance is a good thing, but wearing masks out for a walk in the fresh air to me is silly, as well as riding a bike wearing a mask, driving in your car wearing a mask and gloves, and for Pete’s sake why do some businesses have the credit card machine covered with a plastic bag? I suppose they’re keeping the machine from catching germs. On the other hand, I’m all for sick people wearing a mask if they must go out.
You do realize that the reason stores ask customers to wear masks is because anyone could be infected with no symptoms (thus not “sick”) and infect others? Wearing masks where the public mixes in close proximity protects against infecting other people.
 
why do some businesses have the credit card machine covered with a plastic bag? I suppose they’re keeping the machine from catching germs.

:2funny:

I've seen the machines placed on a table set in front of the cashier to allow for more social distancing between the customer and cashier. At least that makes a bit of sense.
 
Yeah.....I’m not wearing a mask or gloves anywhere. The places that don’t require it are getting my business. (I do carry hand sanitizer). That’s my personal choice. I worked in healthcare for 34 years and I’m fed up with all this bologna. I’m not criticizing the people that want to wear PPE as that’s their choice and keeping distance is a good thing, but wearing masks out for a walk in the fresh air to me is silly, as well as riding a bike wearing a mask, driving in your car wearing a mask and gloves, and for Pete’s sake why do some businesses have the credit card machine covered with a plastic bag? I suppose they’re keeping the machine from catching germs. On the other hand, I’m all for sick people wearing a mask if they must go out.

Agree with your outdoor comments, but more and more of the evidence is pointing towards much more infection from indoor sources.
 
Vulnerability

It was a constructive and instructive post. Most folks posting here just appear highly risk adverse and so generally support and accept the conservative action plans put out by government. Many of us though have watched the data develop over time, recognize the goal of not overwhelming healthcare is met in most locations, and feel the response should now be adjusted to be less draconian and target the known higher risk areas / people and get the country’s economy moving again. Just different views of acceptable risk and consequences. So sorry you deleted it, maybe some learned from it.

Hey Whisper,

Maybe people have different views because of different levels of vulnerability for either themselves or someone they love? One size fits all may not be a valid view point for the pandemic. So while some easing is probably right for some people, it is most certainly not right for all people. Surely, we need a well thought out plan that address' these different realities.
 
Hey Whisper,

Maybe people have different views because of different levels of vulnerability for either themselves or someone they love? One size fits all may not be a valid view point for the pandemic. So while some easing is probably right for some people, it is most certainly not right for all people. Surely, we need a well thought out plan that address' these different realities.


Of course, I fully agree 100%. Just haven't seen government easing plans that I feel appropriately addresses the different realities. So I believe we need to protect ourselves and our loved ones to the levels we feel appropriate and not depend on others nor demand others do it for us.
 
I don't agree. I think there are varied opinions, across the spectrum, from bunker hunkers to YOLO. I've seen a lot of well thought out justification for many of these stances.

Most members here demonstrate that their approach is best for their own comfort level, and that they've made a data-based decision. And our members have different age ranges and health factors, and areas of the country, which they may not divulge publicly in every post.

A 47 yr old in rural TX is going to face different risks vs. a 72 yr old in MD.

The idea that our membership largely follows along with anything (gov't, media, etc.) is simply not accurate. The very reason most of us are here is because we go a bit against the grain.

Well said!
 
The real problem I have is federal guidelines V.S. State guidelines, V.S MSM.
Some governors have made this political. Under the guise of "safety".
And many have disregarded the facts we have learned over the past few months.
And just keep moving the goal post. (Am located OC CA.)
 
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Agree with your outdoor comments, but more and more of the evidence is pointing towards much more infection from indoor sources.

Yes, indoor areas are the issue for most of us. Crowds and/or poor circulation and air replacement are the issues since they allow the concentration of the virus to rise to dangerous levels. Outside any virus the guy who passes me on the trail sheds is diluted rapidly. Inside the concentration builds up to unacceptable levels rapidly.

Low-risk examples (outside, alone in one's car) are not a good way to justify not using a mask indoors in public buildings.
 
You do realize that the reason stores ask customers to wear masks is because anyone could be infected with no symptoms (thus not “sick”) and infect others? Wearing masks where the public mixes in close proximity protects against infecting other people.

Many of us could recite in our dreams by now the reasons we've been given to do this or that or the other thing. The protocols and reasoning change with the wind and weather here in Ohio and elsewhere. Arguing about it endlessly does nothing to change minds.

Listening to the flip-flopping and back-and-forth in Ohio's daily press conferences for the last 2 months makes it clear that they say what they think they need to say to get the public to do what they want them to do. What they talk about the most shows their ulterior motives. Right now, the main purpose behind Ohio's latest mask mandate for employees (where it's allowed by law) is to make the customer feel that it's safe to patronize those businesses. For that reason alone, it was a mistake for DeWine to go back on his original mandate to also require customers to wear masks. That's like saying it's important for the customers to feel safe from the employees, but the employees don't deserve to feel safe from the customers. The customers don't have to feel safe from each other. They keep harping on safety, but it works both ways.

There were also some concerns for employee safety if a customer refused to wear a mask and insisted on entering the store anyway. Within hours, DeWine got many angry calls from people who said they'd refuse to wear a mask. For that reason alone, it wasn't a mistake for DeWine to decide that customers didn't have to wear masks. See, I can flip-flop with the best of them, too. I guess it depends on if the bigger threat is perceived to be the virus or an out-of-control angry customer. But DeWine made it the responsibility of each business to decide if customers had to wear a mask. So that buck does not stop with him, I guess. He's said he believes that most people will voluntarily wear masks and that'll make it all work out OK because he's an optimist.

I've been wearing a mask to grocery stores for the last couple of weeks, since they tend to be the most crowded of the places I go. Most customers in grocery stores are wearing masks, but not all. I didn't wear a mask in Dillard's the other day, because it wasn't crowded. Before I approached my cashier, I asked her if she wanted me to wear a mask. She's known me for over a year now. She said it wasn't necessary, so I didn't. I didn't get within 6 ft. of anyone. A few customers wore masks, a few didn't. When I pick up DD from work at Panera Bread, I go inside without a mask. Most customers that I've seen enter without a mask.

Definitely my mask wearing isn't consistent right now and it depends on the environment and practices of the majority of customers. I'm not going to criticize others for wearing a mask or not wearing a mask. I haven't seen any fights in public over it yet and I hope it stays that way. Most likely, if employees weren't mandated to wear masks, they wouldn't be wearing them either, because they weren't wearing them before and it didn't stop a lot of people from shopping inside for their groceries anyway.

I (and others) have also posted that there are legitimate reasons why some people can't wear a mask. I guess I must be on a lot of Ignore lists, because it doesn't seem to make an impression. The judgmental attitudes are getting way over-the-top here lately. The original post set the tone for it, IMO. I try to be a voice of reason and calm, but I feel like some people just don't want to hear me. I think I'll give up for awhile and find more productive ways to spend my time. Or I could start a thread about how I'm trying to be reasonable and calm during these stressful times and will continue to patronize businesses without requiring them to do a professional deep clean between each customer.
 
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Here's a viewpoint you will never see from anybody else! LOL

My dear, late mother taught me when I was growing up, that the purpose of good manners was to make the other person feel comfortable around you.

I wore a mask last night when I went to a store for the first time since all this began. The reason I wore it was not because of any strong belief that it would keep the other person, or me, safe. The reason I wore it was because of my upbringing; in the present environment, it is good manners and nearly mandatory to wear a mask in public. This is in order to not offend at least some of those one encounters, and make them feel uncomfortable.

Likewise, mask or not, if I had the impulse to cough or sneeze and was near other people, I would do my best to suppress it. For me that would fall in the category of good manners, also.
 
I (and others) have also posted that there are legitimate reasons why some people can't wear a mask. I guess I must be on a lot of Ignore lists, because it doesn't seem to make an impression. The judgmental attitudes are getting way over-the-top here lately. The original post set the tone for it, IMO. I try to be a voice of reason and calm, but I feel like some people just don't want to hear me. I think I'll give up for awhile and find more productive ways to spend my time. Or I could start a thread about how I'm trying to be reasonable and calm during these stressful times and will continue to patronize businesses without requiring them to do a professional deep clean between each customer.
Nope. People rarely change their minds on forums, especially as we grow older and "wiser," here or any other forum. When/if they do, it's usually much later after they've thought about it more, done some research on their own, and/or folks whose influence they usually listen to share the other POV. And few will confess to changing their mind, even if they have the opportunity. Usually the original discussion has long since gone cold.

Seems to me the best practice it to state your POV, share good reasons why, maybe reinforce once or twice - but that's all you can do. I learned by :banghead: much, much longer than I should have. You have to learn to ignore statement posts with unsound or no reasoning - they're usually based on what someone else has told them, and they don't even know why.

You may change minds - but it will be long after you've made your case. It will NOT happen within a thread 99% of the time...
 
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My dear, late mother taught me when I was growing up, that the purpose of good manners was to make the other person feel comfortable around you.

I wore a mask last night when I went to a store for the first time since all this began. The reason I wore it was not because of any strong belief that it would keep the other person, or me, safe. The reason I wore it was because of my upbringing; in the present environment, it is good manners and nearly mandatory to wear a mask in public. This is in order to not offend at least some of those one encounters, and make them feel uncomfortable.

Likewise, mask or not, if I had the impulse to cough or sneeze and was near other people, I would do my best to suppress it. For me that would fall in the category of good manners, also.

Op here, thank you for doing this. Your mother was right (aren't they always?)
 
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