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Old 03-19-2020, 04:58 PM   #61
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It is not just the young several of our friends who are in their 70's with health conditions are out and about like nothing is going on.
Same here. One couple that wont stay home includes a husband that had his blood and bone marrow replaced about a year and a half ago due to leukemia. Not to mention the breathing problems he has.
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Old 03-19-2020, 07:53 PM   #62
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Judging by what I'm reading on this forum, it looks like some of you have a point about the older folks.

Looks like some older folks are going to the store constantly in fear of running out. A few report here they just go to watch because it is interesting.

That's just as bad as sweaty, young, swimsuit clad kids hugging. And a hell of a lot less fun.
That was me.

I wasn't hugging anyone. I went to the stores for some legitimate needs. It took a few trips and I had time to observe as I rushed around to grab the few essentials I needed. I went at "off" times when the fewest people were around.

I had my disinfectant wipes for the cart and anything I have to touch. I had my hand sanitizer. Anything I buy gets sanitized before entering the house. I have one more stop to make at some point, before I can fully hunker down. I will go as soon as they open, after their nightly cleaning and stocking. I don't go out anywhere else, and no-one comes in the house.

Doesn't seem on par with those partying spring break beach kids to me. And I like to think passing on my observations here are helpful to others, as well as being interesting to me personally.
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:21 PM   #63
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Here's the latest article I found on the demographics of coronavirus patients in the US, which mentions Italy too.

Quote:
... Among nearly 2,500 of the first coronavirus cases in the U.S., 705 were aged 20 to 44, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Between 15% and 20% eventually ended up in the hospital, including as many as 4% who needed intensive care. Few died.

Quote:
... In Italy, the hardest hit country in Europe, almost a quarter of the nearly 28,000 coronavirus patients are between the ages of 19 and 50, according to data website Statista.
The full Bloomberg article is here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...show-it-can-be.

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Old 03-19-2020, 08:25 PM   #64
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I have family that drove 1200 miles from "down south" to come to a more-exposed part of the country. Since their employer closed they figured take the vacation now since they have the time off. Man, darwinism. I waved from my window when they tried to visit.

Some people are not smart enough to understand and that is just a fact.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:16 AM   #65
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That was me.

I wasn't hugging anyone. I went to the stores for some legitimate needs. It took a few trips and I had time to observe as I rushed around to grab the few essentials I needed. I went at "off" times when the fewest people were around.

I had my disinfectant wipes for the cart and anything I have to touch. I had my hand sanitizer. Anything I buy gets sanitized before entering the house. I have one more stop to make at some point, before I can fully hunker down. I will go as soon as they open, after their nightly cleaning and stocking. I don't go out anywhere else, and no-one comes in the house.

Doesn't seem on par with those partying spring break beach kids to me. And I like to think passing on my observations here are helpful to others, as well as being interesting to me personally.
It may not be on par with sweaty hugging kids. But... we all need to limit our contact as much as possible.

Nobody is special.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:32 AM   #66
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Since the Tide pods challenge didn't kill off enough of the young 'uns now we have them posting videos showing them licking toilet seats: https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1239521798934405120
https://twitter.com/vishkanyaaaa/sta...90914830692352
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:40 AM   #67
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I spent a good 20 minutes arguing with my 70+ mom & dad to convince them that they don't "need" to go to the post office and the grocery store. They don't "need to go to home depot ("oh right we don't we were there yesterday!")

The mail can wait (she has a PO box for financial stuff but she gets it all online anyway). There is no fresh fish in stock, and she's complaining that her freezer is full...

Basically said to her "everyone else is staying home so people like YOU don't get sick, so do the same!" And if she really truly does have a need, assign pick up to me as my risk is lower (and I can double-vet the need...)
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:53 AM   #68
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About 30 years ago, there was an old guy - late 70s at least -- who lived across the street from us. Most days, he never left the house. But after every snowfall, he would immediately get in his car and drive somewhere. I think he did it just to show that he still could. People are surely strange sometimes.
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:55 AM   #69
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About 30 years ago, there was an old guy - late 70s at least -- who lived across the street from us. Most days, he never left the house. But after every snowfall, he would immediately get in his car and drive somewhere. I think he did it just to show that he still could. People are surely strange sometimes.
Sounds like something I'll do.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:30 AM   #70
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I just had a couple of handyman types look at my sliding glass doors. They tromped right in the house with shoes on...barely scraping the shoes on the mat. They were across the floor before I could say "Please remove your shoes." Now I have to wash the whole #@!* floor. I even had booties right there.

I guess I am supposed to be grateful that someone even shows up! It is very hard to get anybody right now.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:54 AM   #71
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Some final observations from my (hopefully) last ill-advised trip to WalMart.

First, I went 10 minutes after they opened (so I could enter alone.) I had a whole tube of disinfectant wipes and a bottle of hand sanitizer. I didn't touch any surface in the store, or any products I didn't actually buy. Those I wiped down.

TP was in limited supply. Just about every other customer was carrying their 1-package ration allotment. The larger packages (more rolls) were off-brand or store brand. The smaller brand-name packages seemed more popular. So we know folks aren't desperate enough to wipe themselves with anything but the best yet.

Bread was fully stocked. Not an empty spot on the shelves.

Fresh chicken was mostly out, and frozen chicken getting low. Other meats were available, but shorter supply than usual. I don't buy meat there anyway, just observing.

Likewise the produce section. They even had (green) bananas, which seemed to be an early hoarding item elsewhere. Sadly, it was all their usual quality, so nothing worth buying. I hear in some areas Walmart actually sells decent produce, but not around here.

Some personal care items like toothpaste were diminished, but still available. I saw folks buying diapers, but I've been out of that market demographic long enough not to know whether they were stocked to normal levels or not.

The store was well staffed. More than I'd ever seen it. Everyone was friendly (at a social distance, of course.) I give the employees a lot of credit. They're really stepping up to the plate. I was glad to read the company is giving them all a bonus. Probably should be more, but it's a nice gesture.

The roads and parking lots are showing significantly less volume. Still plenty of truckers on the road (another hard-working group) but I noticed a lot more trucks parked at the rest area, when you'd normally see them at a truck stop. Maybe that's how they're isolating.

So, no more SITREPs from roads and stores for me, if I can help it. We will be patronizing our local restaurants for take-out, to support them and their employees.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:49 AM   #72
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I wasn't hugging anyone. I went to the stores for some legitimate needs. It took a few trips and I had time to observe as I rushed around to grab the few essentials I needed. I went at "off" times when the fewest people were around.
...

Doesn't seem on par with those partying spring break beach kids to me. And I like to think passing on my observations here are helpful to others, as well as being interesting to me personally.
+1

You were going anyway. I've been going to the grocery stores when I need something and walking up and down all the aisles to get a sense of what's going on. It's also made me more observant to other meal planning options when what I'd usually buy out of habit may not be available. I haven't been able to limit my trips because we do use fresh produce regularly, plus I have to buy for 4 people. Anyway, if the stores could catch up at some point, it would be possible to buy more of the stuff that keeps at a time. Then subsequent trips could be limited to perishables, which would limit the areas of the store visited and allow for a quicker and less invasive trip.

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We will be patronizing our local restaurants for take-out, to support them and their employees.
+1

DD is one of the many restaurant employees who has been adversely impacted by this. Believe me, your ongoing support of the industry is massively appreciated right now. Another plus is that is reduces the drag on the groceries we've bought, which is reassuring.
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:10 AM   #73
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I am starting to think the reaction is worse than the virus. This is tearing up the economy which will lead to many years of lower quality of life for a lot of people.
^
This.

Things we readily accept: 40K/yr auto accident deaths, 15-20K influenza deaths, 20K+ Dengue fever deaths, 42K opiod deaths.

Are we going overboard? I don't know. Glad I'm not in charge. At 88.5 my DM will take her last breath sometime in the next 2-10 years. She is healthy and sane but says she wouldn't care if she is gone tomorrow. No answers, just questions. I am abiding by the rules.
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:31 AM   #74
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About 30 years ago, there was an old guy - late 70s at least -- who lived across the street from us. Most days, he never left the house. But after every snowfall, he would immediately get in his car and drive somewhere. I think he did it just to show that he still could. People are surely strange sometimes.
From my experience with people, I would guess that action was to leave tire marks in the snow to show the house was occupied, in case any criminal types were casing the neighborhood.
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:33 AM   #75
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Things we readily accept: 40K/yr auto accident deaths, 15-20K influenza deaths, 20K+ Dengue fever deaths, 42K opiod deaths.

Are we going overboard? I don't know.
Whenever I see remarks like this I wonder if anyone realizes the projected number of US deaths (hundreds of thousands up to 2 million) from a "don't go overboard" strategy would be in addition to all those deaths from other causes? Where do we draw the line? How many are acceptable and how many are too many?

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Glad I'm not in charge.
+1

This is a situation where being retired and watching from my secure (for a while, at least) hunkerhouse is much appreciated.
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:57 AM   #76
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We are sticking at home except for our morning walk. House next door is an AirB&B (nightly rental) and normally pretty mellow. Last night there was a crowd of college age youth of America partying hard at its hot tub and pool. I didn't bother looking over the wall to do a count, but going by the voice overlay I'd guess 8-12. On the good side, they turned out the green overhead light strings that interrupt our sleep and they didn't blast music. People will do what they do do. We're sticking to home.
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Old 03-20-2020, 01:54 PM   #77
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^
This.

Things we readily accept: 40K/yr auto accident deaths, 15-20K influenza deaths, 20K+ Dengue fever deaths, 42K opiod deaths.

Are we going overboard? I don't know. Glad I'm not in charge. At 88.5 my DM will take her last breath sometime in the next 2-10 years. She is healthy and sane but says she wouldn't care if she is gone tomorrow. No answers, just questions. I am abiding by the rules.
I think the difference here is that Covid would spread fast without these precautions, and would overwhelm the ability to deal with it. Those other examples are all spread over a period of time, and have prepared responses in place. I don't think we're going to have to repeat all this next year, assuming there is progress on the testing and medical response aspects. Plus, hopefully there will be some immunity in the population after this year, assuming you can only catch it once. I sure hope I'm right.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:03 PM   #78
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I read that the CEO of a car maker here in the US sent out an email to his workers, and he compared the deaths from the virus to vehicular deaths in the US.

He was completely ignorant of the fact that vehicular deaths are a relative constant number from year to year, and it is not infectious.

Just because your neighbor's son dies due to texting while driving, it should not cause you to go out and risk your life doing the same. Here, if your neighbor or your coworker come down with the virus, it may spread to you too.

This virus has not caused as many deaths yet, but at the rate that it is spreading, if we do nothing the number will eclipse everything out there. And this is particularly true if the hospitals are full and we leave people untreated.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:47 PM   #79
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I too have wondered whether we might destroy the economy. This article gives a detailed explanation of why a short term serious suppression effort is worth the disruption
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:02 PM   #80
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Yes, infants do get infected. However, I read somewhere a report on several cases that they suffered little, and recovered fine on their own.

As the virus attacks the lungs, apparently old lungs with worn-out cells are more susceptible. Eventually, perhaps a pattern will emerge that people who live in congested and polluted cities are at a higher risk than people living in clean air countryside.
Actually (forgive me if this has been discussed elsewhere) I saw a Doc (epid.?) talking about why old folks might be at greater risk. It's not that their immune systems are "old" or "worn out" etc. His theory is that older folks immune systems are "too good!" Our (old guy here) immune systems have seen it all and are ready to fight at first insult. Unfortunately, we fight so well that the typical immune response (inflammation and massive white cell attack) compromise lung cells, causing pneumonia. No idea if this is correct, but it made as much sense to me as suggesting that our immune systems are "too old" or "worn out" to fight. Of course, YMMV.
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