Second Bivalent Booster?

[Gearhead Jim]

The bivalent boosters were approved at the end of August, so early adopters will hit the 6 month point at the end of February, which by some recommendations would be the proper time for another.

It will be interesting to see what the CDC says, or doesn't say, as we approach that date. It will be equally interesting to see what the various talking heads, with widely varying competence in that area, say.

Excerpt from story in U S News & World Report. January 11, 2023:

However, Poland believes that boosters are still needed, if only to help prevent complications like long COVID.

“What amount of research we do have so far, and I would call it incomplete, suggests that the risk of so-called long COVID is reduced by 20%, 25%, something like that” through vaccination, Poland said.
...
In addition, real-world studies are showing a benefit from the bivalent booster in older people, said Dr. William Schaffner, medical director of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases.
...
Schaffner pointed to a new Israeli study that found an 81% reduction in hospitalizations among people 65 and older who had received the bivalent booster, compared to people who’d gotten at least two vaccinations but not the new vaccine.

 

[donheff]

I started playing around with ChatGPT on another thread here at ERdotOrg. Here is AI's take on my question whether it would be safe to take a second covalent booster:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not yet made a recommendation regarding the use of a second bivalent COVID-19 booster vaccine. However, the safety and effectiveness of booster doses of COVID-19 vaccines are being closely monitored by the CDC and other health organizations.

Clinical trials for the booster doses are being conducted by the vaccine manufacturers and it is expected that the results will be available soon. These trials will help to determine the optimal dosage, interval, and duration of protection provided by booster doses.

It is generally considered safe to receive additional doses of a vaccine, as vaccines have been shown to have a good safety profile. However, as with any medical procedure, there can be risks and side effects associated with vaccination.

It's always best to consult with a doctor or a healthcare provider before taking any medication and follow the guidance of local health authorities and the CDC regarding the use of COVID-19 vaccines. They will be able to provide the most up-to-date information and guidance on the use of booster doses and the best course of action for you."

 

[EastWest Gal]

The risks and side effects of the disease tend to outweigh the risks and side effects of most vaccines. However, these multiple doses are a first for the world. As far as I know, in general immunity to coronaviruses is not long lasting, but if we can significantly reduce the risk of hospitalization and death, the vaccine has done it’s job, as much as we are able to do.

 

[MichaelB]

I started playing around with ChatGPT on another thread here at ERdotOrg. Here is AI's take on my question whether it would be safe to take a second covalent booster:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not yet made a recommendation regarding the use of a second bivalent COVID-19 booster vaccine. However, the safety and effectiveness of booster doses of COVID-19 vaccines are being closely monitored by the CDC and other health organizations.

Clinical trials for the booster doses are being conducted by the vaccine manufacturers and it is expected that the results will be available soon. These trials will help to determine the optimal dosage, interval, and duration of protection provided by booster doses.

It is generally considered safe to receive additional doses of a vaccine, as vaccines have been shown to have a good safety profile. However, as with any medical procedure, there can be risks and side effects associated with vaccination.

It's always best to consult with a doctor or a healthcare provider before taking any medication and follow the guidance of local health authorities and the CDC regarding the use of COVID-19 vaccines. They will be able to provide the most up-to-date information and guidance on the use of booster doses and the best course of action for you."

Thanks for that. Informative, and also a nice view into the capabilities of ChatGPT and how they can be used.

 

[intent]

I started playing around with ChatGPT on another thread here at ERdotOrg. Here is AI's take on my question whether it would be safe to take a second covalent booster:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not yet made a recommendation regarding the use of a second bivalent COVID-19 booster vaccine. However, the safety and effectiveness of booster doses of COVID-19 vaccines are being closely monitored by the CDC and other health organizations.

Clinical trials for the booster doses are being conducted by the vaccine manufacturers and it is expected that the results will be available soon. These trials will help to determine the optimal dosage, interval, and duration of protection provided by booster doses.

It is generally considered safe to receive additional doses of a vaccine, as vaccines have been shown to have a good safety profile. However, as with any medical procedure, there can be risks and side effects associated with vaccination.

It's always best to consult with a doctor or a healthcare provider before taking any medication and follow the guidance of local health authorities and the CDC regarding the use of COVID-19 vaccines. They will be able to provide the most up-to-date information and guidance on the use of booster doses and the best course of action for you."

Wow, ChatGPT for the win! The CDC could post that verbatim to their site and satisfy my request

 

[RetMD21]

FDA may simplify Covid vaccine recommendations

That is, get immunized every year in the fall with an updated vaccine. There is some back and forth among experts about whether the vaccine should be updated and if low risk folks need boosters. Also there are concerns that an annual schedule may not be sufficient.

I'm no expert but it makes sense to me. Perhaps a reserve of vaccine should be on hand in case there is a spring resurgence. In any case, I doubt it's practical to update the vaccine twice per year.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...nsiders-major-shift-in-covid-vaccine-strategy

 

[Gearhead Jim]

The good news is that FDA is looking into the questions of updated vaccines and boosting schedules. And actually saying something.

 

[wolf]

Curious. Current Variant. Very contagious. But lucky. Only cold like symptoms.
Seems everyone I know, has caught "one" of the omicron variants.
And all survived. And now we have natural immunity.
Why do we need an annual booster? Confused.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I saw my doctor yesterday and she recommended that I take the second pneumonia vaccine because I had pneumonia when I was 45 so I did. She saw that I had my last Covid vaccine in October 21 and didn’t recommend another until the fall of 23. I was surprised as she usually is pro vaccine. It doesn’t matter because I probably won’t get anymore but I kept that to myself. A lot can happen in a year to change my mind.

 

[wolf]

I saw my doctor yesterday and she recommended that I take the second pneumonia vaccine because I had pneumonia when I was 45 so I did. She saw that I had my last Covid vaccine in October 21 and didn’t recommend another until the fall of 23. I was surprised as she usually is pro vaccine. It doesn’t matter because I probably won’t get anymore but I kept that to myself. A lot can happen in a year to change my mind.

Interesting. MD. Pro vaccine. Wonder if your MD knows something she cannot talk about.

In California. New law. If MD goes against CDC guidelines, they risk losing their medical license.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Wolf, doctors should be able to make their own recommendations versus having to parrot the government line. Ugh!!

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Interesting. MD. Pro vaccine. Wonder if your MD knows something she cannot talk about.

In California. New law. If MD goes against CDC guidelines, they risk losing their medical license.

That’s not accurate.
MD’s cannot give false or misleading information about COVID-19 to their patients.
Link:

https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...9-could-get-doctors-disciplined-in-california

 

[RetMD21]

That’s not accurate.
MD’s cannot give false or misleading information about COVID-19 to their patients.
Link:

https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...9-could-get-doctors-disciplined-in-california

Seems reasonable to sanction doctors from lying to patients as a business plan. I found another article about this.

https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/california-enacts-covid-19-misinformation-law-for-physicians

Teacher Terry has had bad reactions to the vaccine so I understand not being enthusiastic about another but I think her doctor isn't really an anti vaxxer for not recommending another dose at this time considering that it isn't approved.

Wolf prefers to generalize from his limited circle of acquaintances which is fine if that's how you like to make decisions. It may explain the confusion however.

 

[donheff]

I saw my doctor yesterday and she recommended that I take the second pneumonia vaccine because I had pneumonia when I was 45 so I did. She saw that I had my last Covid vaccine in October 21 and didn’t recommend another until the fall of 23. I was surprised as she usually is pro vaccine. It doesn’t matter because I probably won’t get anymore but I kept that to myself. A lot can happen in a year to change my mind.

The doctor sounds up to date. She shouldn’t recommend a second bivalent booster because you are up to date. And CDC officials have signaled that they are considering proposing an annual fall Covid vaccine similar to flu. I got a second covalent booster recently because I am leaving on an expensive trip to Antarctica and want to minimize risk. But I am not a doctor and recognize that I may actually be increasing my risk. In fact, following my booster I experienced a first ever eczema flare on my legs, arms, and back. I have read some reports of this as a possible Covid vaccine adverse reaction. Luckily I am getting it quickly under control with steroid creams. I will continue to get recommended Covid vaccines in the future

 

[Teacher Terry]

My doctor is definitely not an anti vaxer. Every time I get a Covid shot I am really sick for 4 days in bed with bad chills, etc. I wasn’t nearly as sick when I got Covid. However, a friend of mine died before vaccines were available. So that’s also scary. But I know 3 people that were probably injured by the vaccines and told not to get anymore and that’s also scary.

I actually think it’s something in our dna making us so sick because my 2 older siblings are sick for a week afterwards but they got Moderna and I got Pfizer. They still get them because one has sarcoidosis and one copd. I really think it’s an individual judgement call. Originally it was a no brainer with the original strain killing so many people. There’s really no good choices.

 

[ivinsfan]

Seems reasonable to sanction doctors from lying to patients as a business plan. I found another article about this.

https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/california-enacts-covid-19-misinformation-law-for-physicians

Teacher Terry has had bad reactions to the vaccine so I understand not being enthusiastic about another but I think her doctor isn't really an anti vaxxer for not recommending another dose at this time considering that it isn't approved.

Wolf prefers to generalize from his limited circle of acquaintances which is fine if that's how you like to make decisions. It may explain the confusion however.

Well this is in court so we'll see what happens however I'm confused about your comment about lying to patients as a business plan. I suggest you might rethink your branding of anti-vaxxers...

 

[Aerides]

Pro-vaxx vs. Anti-vaxx discussions are a quick way to close a thread, so let's please avoid having that argument for the 900th time.

 

[Ronstar]

DW and I stopped getting the vaccines after 2 or 3. My doc recommended that I get the latest jab last August. He’ll probably say something to me in a few weeks when I go for my next visit.

It bothers me that we are 3 years into this yet there isn’t a solid plan in place for going forward. Lots of different advice.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

^^^^^
The latest discussions at the FDA indicate a plan is being developed, probably something like this:

Future boosters will probably be bivalent, and probably updated yearly.
Young, healthy folks will be encouraged to get the latest booster each Fall; along with a flu shot.
Unhealthy, or just plain old (like most of us) folks will perhaps be encouraged to get boosted twice per year.

More info from FDA may be available by the end of this month.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/suppo...d-vaccine-schedule-proposed/story?id=96689128

 

[ncbill]

So I've had 4 shots total, most recent last fall (plus fu shot), all COVID were Pfizer.

In my 50s, am I eligible (or recommended) for a 5th shot?

 

[MichaelB]

Why don’t we just move on ..l

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Or maybe no decision for a while:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...doubts-moving-yearly-covid-boosters-rcna67491

 

[Ian S]

New CDC report suggests the bivalent vaccines are really worth getting because they provide additional protection compared to older boosters https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72...nuary 25, 2023&deliveryName=USCDC_921-DM97925 :

Using spike (S)-gene target presence as a proxy for BA.2 sublineages, including XBB and XBB.1.5, during December 2022–January 2023, the results showed that a bivalent mRNA booster dose provided additional protection against symptomatic XBB/XBB.1.5 infection for at least the first 3 months after vaccination in persons who had previously received 2–4 monovalent vaccine doses.

Note this is protection against symptomatic infection not just against hospitaization and death.

 

[wolf]

That’s not accurate.
MD’s cannot give false or misleading information about COVID-19 to their patients.
Link:

https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...9-could-get-doctors-disciplined-in-california

1/27/23, San Jose Mercury News. A Federal Judge, temporary moratorium,
on this new law. Guess it's going to the courts.
Agree. Md's cannot give misleading information. Issue is. Who decides
what is misleading information. The Courts will decide.

 

[donheff]

Ars Technica has a good summary of the current situation at the FDA. Despite a lot of earlier debate about the value of bivalent boosters and whether boosters in general are worthwhile, the FDA panel that met this week reached some areas of consensus. The article notes that:

"The FDA seemed to soften the ground with questions and discussion topics focused on "harmonizing" and simplifying COVID vaccines. After the single vote, the agency directed the committee to discuss "simplifying the immunization schedule," before getting to the more perilous, but still gentle discussion topic of considering "periodic updates to COVID-19 vaccine composition."

Overall, the committee members favored streamlining vaccines where possible—making primary series shots match booster doses, and potentially whittling down regimens to one dose for adults and two for children and high-risk adults."

Still lots of areas of confusion, including what formulation should be used next, who should get them, and where "remained elephant-sized questions in the meeting room."