Unvaccinated, anti-vax relatives

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Very interesting post....makes me think. I have some family members who will not be vaccinated, at least for now. I definitely have spent time with them in smaller situations, but a larger group would make me think. Those is my close bubble have all been vaccinated and don't have any serious health conditions, but still......


But still what? BTW anyone who hasn't been vaccinated by now doesn't plan on getting one.



Our state offered a bonus for up to 100k people, think rewards in the 25 dollar offer and only 10k people took advantage of it.
 
But still what? BTW anyone who hasn't been vaccinated by now doesn't plan on getting one.

US averages are holding steady at just over 1M doses administered per day for the past week, with about 440k of those each day being first doses. Granted much of that might be the youngs, but still, I imagine some of that number is adults who were previously reluctant.
 
But still what? BTW anyone who hasn't been vaccinated by now doesn't plan on getting one.
Maybe I know the only one(s) but my neighbor and his DW are going for their first shots this weekend.
 
US averages are holding steady at just over 1M doses administered per day for the past week, with about 440k of those each day being first doses. Granted much of that might be the youngs, but still, I imagine some of that number is adults who were previously reluctant.


it's the youngs in our state. our % of people over 65 vaccinated has been hanging at 90% for the last month.



A 60 YO cousin of my DH who visits and care takes for her Mother told me last week "I haven't been vaccinated yet, but I mask around my Mom. She's been eligible to vac for the past 3 and a half months in our state, so I guess she's not getting vaccinated.


It doesn't help that our cases numbers have fallen off a cliff so the unvaccinated feel absolutely no urgency.
 
US averages are holding steady at just over 1M doses administered per day for the past week, with about 440k of those each day being first doses. Granted much of that might be the youngs, but still, I imagine some of that number is adults who were previously reluctant.


It would be interesting to know the reasons, maybe some workplace are decreasing restrictions on vaccinated staff? Or they want to travel? Inertia?


The NFL won't force players to vaccinate but the list of restrictions and testing requirements for the unvaccinated is really hardcore.
 
I have some relatives who are unvaccinated anti-vaxers. Extreme. Relentlessly trying to recruit others to their side. Spreading lies about the vaccine.

I’m sick of it. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, just mind your own business. I’m not trying to persuade anyone to get vaccinated. I don’t care if anyone else is vaccinated or not. There rant over.
 
..What would you do in this situation?...

I wouldn't worry about trying to protect folks from exposure at the wedding. If vaccinated folks have known issues that make them vulnerable to exposure then they likely have no business attending functions like this yet anyway.
You can't be the vaccine police.

....We would very much like to have these folks at the wedding, based on long-standing, harmonious family ties and good relations,.....
Based on our family/friends, "That ship has likely already sailed".
 
But still what? BTW anyone who hasn't been vaccinated by now doesn't plan on getting one.



Our state offered a bonus for up to 100k people, think rewards in the 25 dollar offer and only 10k people took advantage of it.

There are still people who are hesitant because of the new technology and lack of understanding. Not everyone is as educated as you are. That is too broad a statement. Some people don't even know that the vaccine is free or how to access the vaccine in their area. Some people work 2-3 low wage jobs and are concerned that the side effects will cause them to miss work. Then there are children under 12, and children 12-15 who have not had their second dose. Probably not a good idea to make such a blanket statement.
 
There are still people who are hesitant because of the new technology and lack of understanding. Not everyone is as educated as you are. That is too broad a statement. Some people don't even know that the vaccine is free or how to access the vaccine in their area. Some people work 2-3 low wage jobs and are concerned that the side effects will cause them to miss work. Then there are children under 12, and children 12-15 who have not had their second dose. Probably not a good idea to make such a blanket statement.


Yes outreach is needed. I guess I'm frustrated since the majority of the ones I know aren't saying not yet but saying no way..however I do have to say the outreach for the vaccine has been prolonged and targeted. If you buy groceries you can walk in and get a vaccine...obviously I wasn't talking about second doses or kids under 12.
 
Any idea why they waited?
"I think" it was "mainly" because of the scheduling/distribution issues we experienced around here in the early days of vac's. I experienced them too but kept after it....
 
Can he be tested to see if the vaccine had the desired effect ?

DH's rheumatologist says that is too late for DH to be tested to see if the vaccine worked--if he were going to be tested he should have been tested about a month after the 2ned vaccine which would have been in March but the studies were not out hen so he did not know to get tested then. DH and his doctor are looking into getting him a third shot of the vaccine but that has not been approved by the FDA yet.
 
I wouldn't worry about trying to protect folks from exposure at the wedding. If vaccinated folks have known issues that make them vulnerable to exposure then they likely have no business attending functions like this yet anyway.
You can't be the vaccine police.


Based on our family/friends, "That ship has likely already sailed".

But Sojourner has elderly people who are vaccinated but still at risk who he wants to attend the wedding. Maybe he would rather these high risk elders attend rather than the antivaxxers. You can definitely be the vaccine police at your own wedding. Sojourner is paying for it so he can invite who he wants and put what ever restrictions he wants on the invitation. I say good for him.
 
In order to take the heat off of yourselves, can you cite local, state or federal guidelines that urge vaccinated, outdoor gatherings only? Also, congratulations!
 
I honestly don’t understand why Sojourner doesn’t simply invite his/her preferred guests and not invite the ones he/she doesn’t agree with their beliefs. No reason to lie about some imaginary doctor recommended my wedding party only have pro-vax people. When its your party, invite who you want and move on.
 
I know this forum is pro-vax all the way, but if you're vaccinated and you trust the science, why do you worry about unvaccinated people? why do people dismiss the concerns of the "anti-vaxx" crowd as ridiculous? We are still talking about an experimental vaccine, yet there's a big push to get everyone vaccinated. Have you seen the cases of deaths, paralysis and myocarditis on seemingly healthy people after taking the jab? I know the Moderators will delete this comment because it doesn't fall in line with the group-think here.


Show me the numbers...particularity on the "dead" people.


Don't insult us by labeling us as "group thinkers"...
 
But still what? BTW anyone who hasn't been vaccinated by now doesn't plan on getting one.



Our state offered a bonus for up to 100k people, think rewards in the 25 dollar offer and only 10k people took advantage of it.

I totally agree! Iowa just recently opened a vaccine lottery also.

I think what I meant is that I am ready to move on, but this was an interesting scenario. I am still ready to move on.
 
I know this forum is pro-vax all the way, but if you're vaccinated and you trust the science, why do you worry about unvaccinated people? why do people dismiss the concerns of the "anti-vaxx" crowd as ridiculous? We are still talking about an experimental vaccine, yet there's a big push to get everyone vaccinated. Have you seen the cases of deaths, paralysis and myocarditis on seemingly healthy people after taking the jab? I know the Moderators will delete this comment because it doesn't fall in line with the group-think here.



Can you please provide numbers for these frightening anecdotes in the context of 600,000 dead Americans? Thank you.
 
One of DH's sisters says she won't be getting vaccinated. She says she was "exposed" to covid in Feb 2020. She was a teacher and a student in her class had it or one of the student's family members had it. Anyway, she seems to think that because she was exposed and didn't get sick that now she is immune.

She traveled to Hawaii a few months ago so I think she had to have a negative test to go there. She also flew to Key West recently. Do you have to have a negative test to fly?

She's a nice person and smart enough. But her choices in how she gets her news make her resistant to mainstream ideas (like SCIENCE) and that causes her to be put off by things like a vaccine to combat a global pandemic.

I know she had the MMR vaccine, DTP vaccine, menningitis vaccine, polio vaccine, all the required childhood vaccinations, etc etc and as a public school teacher she most likely got a yearly flu shot. But a COVID-19 vaccine just does not apply to her.

I know she had chicken pox as a child, will she be against the Shingrix shot?
 
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I think not everyone who refuses the COVID vaccine is a dyed-in-the-wool anti-vaxxer. A common rationale is "Those other immunizations have been around, but COVID vaccine is too new, and everyone who accepts it is a guinea pig."

I know she had the MMR vaccine, DTP vaccine, menningitis vaccine, polio vaccine, all the required childhood vaccinations, etc etc and as a public school teacher she most likely got a yearly flu shot. But a COVID-19 vaccine just does not apply to her.

I know she had chicken pox as a child, will she be against the Shingrix shot?
 
I have some thoughts on the subject;
If the issue is vaxed or not, obviously those vaxxed have no fear of the unvaxxed. You mentioned some elderly folks who are invited and I assume have already accepted and that the efficacy of the vaccine may or may not have given them full immunization as it might someone with a healthier immune system. How can you know that other vaxed guests have enough immunity to not also somehow be carriers and expose these elderly folks? Everyone's immune system works different and any one person may or may not have protection from CV19 after receiving the vaccine. Or that other guests just flat out lied and said they were vaxed but aren't? Many who choose to not vax also prefer their choice to be private and, when asked, may simply tell you what they think you want to hear to avoid confrontation. Especially if they feel the whole vaccine thing is not passing their smell test. There's simply no way you can protect the elderly at your gathering you see. However, I do know there are blood tests to determine the antibodies in a person from either the actual CV-19 or from the vaccine. I've taken those blood tests as a participant in a study from the Leukemia Lymphoma Society. I finished my chemo for non-hodgkins lymphoma in March. I was tested prior to my vax for antibodies both for the virus and the vax. I then was given the vax, wait four weeks and tested again. I had no more antibodies after than before. My immune system was totally unresponsive to the vaccine.
Anyone can take these tests and determine if they have antibodies and if it was from catching CV19 or from the vax. The test for vaccine antibodies is;
SARS-Cov-2 Semi Quant Tot. AB Spike
And the test for Covid-19 antibodies is;
SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies

Each test is unique for determining the antibodies from either natural immunity or vaccine immunity. They do not cross. The tests are around $40 each. So, if you wanted to know IF the vax worked for you and by how much, just ask your doc to approve the test. It's likely your insurance company won't pay, but that's to be expected. At least your elderly guests won't be guessing if they are or are not protected by the vaccine.

Here's the text from the tests 4 weeks after being vaccinated;
SARS-CoV-2 Ab, Nucleocapsid A, B
Negative Negative 01
This sample does not contain detectable SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. This
negative result does not rule out SARS-CoV-2 infection. Correlation
with epidemiologic risk factors and other clinical and laboratory
findings is recommended. Serologic results should not be used as the
sole basis to diagnose or exclude recent SARS-CoV-2 infection.
This assay will not detect antibodies induced by the currently
available SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. The current vaccines elicit
antibodies specific to the viral spike protein. Labcorp offers
two test codes that detect viral spike-specific antibodies:
164090 SARS-CoV-2 Semi-Quantitative Total Antibody, Spike and
164055 SARS-CoV-2 Antibody, IgG, Spike (Qualitative).
Positive results with this SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies, Nucleocapsid
assay suggest recent or previous natural infection with
SARS-CoV-2.
SARS-CoV-2 Semi-Quant Total Ab A, C
<0.40 U/mL <0.80 02
This sample does not contain detectable antibodies against the
SARS-CoV-2 spike protein receptor binding domain (RBD).
Interpretation:
Negative <0.80
Positive >0.79
Comments:
A This test has not been FDA cleared or approved. This test has been authorized
by FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). This test is only
authorized for the duration of the declaration that circumstances exist
justifying the authorization of emergency use of in vitro diagnostics for
detection and/or diagnosis of COVID-19 under Section 564(b)(1) of the Act, 21
U.S.C. 360bbb-3(b)(1), unless the authorization is terminated or revoked
sooner. This test has been authorized only for detecting the presence of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, not for any other pathogens or viruses.

I want to add;
The tip point for Positive and Negative is just that point to determine if enough antibodies is present to detect. How much antibodies and what the limit is, isn't defined here. However, I was told a 'robust' response is 400. So, you can see if .79 is negative and .80 is positive, there's a whole lot of room for percentage to 400 in determining just how effective the vax was for your immune system.
 
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DH's rheumatologist says that is too late for DH to be tested to see if the vaccine worked--if he were going to be tested he should have been tested about a month after the 2ned vaccine which would have been in March but the studies were not out hen so he did not know to get tested then. DH and his doctor are looking into getting him a third shot of the vaccine but that has not been approved by the FDA yet.

Interesting you mentioned a rheumatologist. Might I ask if DH has a form of rheumatoid arthritis and/or on retuxamab? My chemo treatment included the immunotherapy of retuxamab and is the primary cause of my non-existent immune system. However, the doses I got, every month for 6 months, is typically many times more than someone being treated for RA. To treat my type of NHL, not only do the B-cells have to be destroyed, so do the stem cells they come from. Those stem cells come from bone marrow. My oncologist tells me it will take a year for my body to rebuild it's B and T cells to the point they were prior to my treatment. It MIGHT be that if your DH was treated for RA, that the dose was less and just once every 6 months, then timing for the vaccine is paramount. It's recommended that someone on a retuximab therapy every 6 months, time their vaccine to the end of that 6 months and try to delay the next treatment by 4 weeks. I realize the discomfort of the delay, but it's suggested that antibodies have the most likely chance under those terms.
I wish all well who have a compromised immune system. Myself included! Ha! I have had to weigh the risks of social activity to my diagnosis and prognosis to exposure to the virus. I won't NOT see my grand children. They know Papa can't hug them, but we can play games, like chess, from across the room. Or enjoy a movie from Disney+ when I sit behind them a ways, etc. Everyone has the right to determine their own risk assessment with their vulnerability to either virus or vaccine, but we all also need to respect the other's choice.
Cheers!

Oh, and I want to comment on the 3rd shot, a booster. I asked my doc if I should get one or one of the other vaccines. He said NO. Do not until it's been authorized for that use. He also told me that it's just as likely I am protected by the vaccine as not. That the tests developed are looking for specific spike proteins and nothing else. It could be I have had a reaction to the vaccine that simply wasn't anticipated so wasn't discovered in their very limited test. Because there is so much uncertainty, the 'booster' isn't authorized, nor mixing vaccines. It's not hard to see why someone who is cautious is adverse to getting a vaccine to begin with. There's just so much that isn't known at this point.

And just one last point. With a compromised immune system, it's not just CV19 that has to be cautioned. A simple scratch from a kitten can cause an infection that could result in sepsis and kill just as fast as CV19. Any elderly person needs to realize it's not just CV19 they need fear of contracting. While CV19 is more contagious, it seems, it's not alone in it's risk to those immune compromised folks.
 
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I honestly don’t understand why Sojourner doesn’t simply invite his/her preferred guests and not invite the ones he/she doesn’t agree with their beliefs. No reason to lie about some imaginary doctor recommended my wedding party only have pro-vax people. When its your party, invite who you want and move on.

Actually, I (well, we... DGF and I) did invite the people we wanted to attend, and after the invitations were sent out and many people had RSVP'd, I found out that a few of the invitees with whom I don't keep in touch regularly were stridently anti-vaccination. Found out not directly from them, but from other relatives who knew about their views.

Anyway, as I stated up thread, I'm deploying the absent authority approach so as not to burn bridges with these folks. They may be anti-vaxxers and therefore not people with whom I share a general worldview, but they are fairly close relatives who played a pretty big role in my childhood and adolescent years.
 
My doctor does not want me to be vaccinated based on my current health(excellent) and my genetic makeup along with current available treatments. That doesn't not mean that I judge those who choose (along with the doctors advice) to get vaccinated. I do not expect anyone else to keep me "safe". I would be sad to not be included in your wedding if you are a close family member. I believe we are all responsible for our own health and decisions including eating well and supporting our immune system. We can all be kind and civil and stay home when not feeling well but we can't be responsible for each other's healthy or unhealthy choices.
> My doctor does not want me to be vaccinated based on my current health(excellent) and my genetic makeup along with current available treatments

Nothing in this sentence makes sense to me. It makes me wonder if the doctor thinks the same for seasonal flus ("you are healthy, go get infected, it will make you stronger"). Healthy people are the best candidates for vaccinations.

What genetic makeup? Nothing remotely related to gene therapy or vaccine compatibility for covid have conclusive publication from the study yet. It takes time for those studies to publish even for well established vaccines.

The current covid treatment is experimental at best (monoclonal antibody) that was tested on far smaller population than the population used in all the vaccines clinical trials. Is he talking about symptom-only treatment? Most people continue to die once they are connected to the ventilator.

Are you sure you did not tell the doctor that you don't want the vaccine so he gave you those nonanswers to make you feel good about your decision? To me those reasons your doctor gave you are either biased, not informed, or irresponsible.
 
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