Unvaccinated, anti-vax relatives

[Sojourner]

Of the several dozen friends and family that DGF and I have invited to our wedding later this summer, we know of four who have not gotten and will not be getting their COVID vaccine shots. They are firmly in the anti-vax camp, at least when it comes to COVID-19.

We would very much like to have these folks at the wedding, based on long-standing, harmonious family ties and good relations, but we also are trying to ensure the wedding is safe for everyone. The wedding event will be primarily outdoors, which is safer than the alternative, but we are concerned that these anti-vaxxers will be freely mixing, mingling, and (potentially) spreading their germs around to everyone. There will be several folks in their 80s, fully vaccinated, but somewhat vulnerable due to immunosenescence (based on various things I've heard).

What would you do in this situation? Talk to the anti-vaxxers and try to convince them to get vaccinated for the sake of everyone else at the wedding? Tell them they aren't welcome if they haven't been vaccinated, and then live with the acrimony and fallout? Say nothing and just hope for the best? Or, some other strategy/approach that could address the situation?

 

[OldShooter]

I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.

If you were talking about a small party with just you and the four, then the risk tradeoff is totally yours to make. That's a totally different situation than you having to make a risk decision for all of your guests that could have consequences for some of them.

 

[RunningBum]

I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially exposé all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.

+1

 

[Time2]

We started up our breakfast group of 5 older guys. The one antivaxer was not in the email loop. We don't want him there. If he was vaccinated we would welcome him.

 

[AtlasShrugged]

What would you do in this situation?

Elope

 

[Sojourner]

Elope

 

[Sunset]

I think the other issue is , unless this wedding is Adults only , there are likely to be children present.
They will not be vaccinated (most likely).
What is the decision about them ?

Also, the risk is to the anti-vaxers as well, since now hospitals report 95%->98% of new covid cases are non-vaccinated people.

Add in the more transmissible Delta variant, and this wedding is going to be dicey.

 

[Ronstar]

I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.

+2

 

[Sojourner]

I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.

If you were talking about a small party with just you and the four, then the risk tradeoff is totally yours to make. That's a totally different situation than you having to make a risk decision for all of your guests that could have consequences for some of them.

Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.

 

[Montecfo]

I think I would invite them. They are the ones taking the risk, and they have that choice. Risk with the kids is exceedingly low.

We all encounter unvaccinated people every day. My family are all vaccinated. But I would not cause what could be a longstanding rift over this matter.

 

[OldShooter]

Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.

I would tell them exactly that and hope that they are listening. What you are doing is not "zero tolerance" at all; you are answering the classic ethics question: What is the greatest good for the greatest number?

 

[OldShooter]

... They are the ones taking the risk ...

Factually untrue.

 

[Calico]

I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.

If you were talking about a small party with just you and the four, then the risk tradeoff is totally yours to make. That's a totally different situation than you having to make a risk decision for all of your guests that could have consequences for some of them.

This.

 

[Amethyst]

Have you tried explaining your concerns (which seems to be mostly about the very old guests) to them? If they are the nice, close people you say they are, they will suck it up and say "OK, we're sorry but we won't hold it against you, have a wonderful time."

If they can't do that, or if they get all, "Well! If your vaccine is so great, then y'all are protected and we can't hurt you!" then you are giving the relationship too much credit, I'd say.

Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.

 

[OldShooter]

Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.

Thinking about this some more ...

There is a technique called "absent authority" negotiation. Without going into detail I'll just suggest that you tell your friends that you consulted your doctor on this question and that he told you that you should not include them. (I doesn't matter whether you talked to your doctor or not, or even if you have a doctor.)

 

[rodi]

Tough situation.

Could you put a small asterisk at the bottom of the invitation requesting that all guests over age 12 be vaccinated if they plan to attend. That puts the onus on your friend to decide if they want to come (and to go get vaccinated) or decide they don't want to attend. It will be their decision.

 

[Sojourner]

I think the other issue is , unless this wedding is Adults only , there are likely to be children present. They will not be vaccinated (most likely). What is the decision about them?

Good question. There will be a few kids until 12 there, unvaccinated of course. I suspect their presence won't be too big of an issue, since they won't be interacting much (for extended periods) with the elderly folks... at least that's my hope. Lots of considerations to juggle here, probably no way to come up with a solution that meets everyone's needs and preferences.

 

[Car-Guy]

What would you do in this situation?

Or, some other strategy/approach that could address the situation?

We go to stores, restaurants, doctors offices, post office, banks, movies, church, parties, casinos, etc, etc, etc... I have no idea who's been vaccinated or not... "As an older guy myself" I've been vaccinated and I'm just not going to worry about it anymore... However, in this case, I may forgo the tradition of "kissing" the bride...


BUT, since this is your event, you might go an extra step and mention it to the people you are most concerned about that some attending may not have been vaccinated, if it makes you feel better about the situation. If you are really that concerned, then add a footnote on the invitation.

 

[Walt34]

Could you put a small asterisk at the bottom of the invitation requesting that all guests over age 12 be vaccinated if they plan to attend. That puts the onus on your friend to decide if they want to come (and to go get vaccinated) or decide they don't want to attend. It will be their decision.

This, only I would make it an absolute nonnegotiable requirement, not a request.

 

[Sojourner]

There is a technique called "absent authority" negotiation. Without going into detail I'll just suggest that you tell your friends that you consulted your doctor on this question and that he told you that you should not include them. (I doesn't matter whether you talked to your doctor or not, or even if you have a doctor.)

This is a great idea, thanks! There are two elderly folks I'm most concerned about, and it would be easy for me to say (to the anti-vaccination guests) that after consulting with both of their doctors, we feel it would be quite dangerous to expose them to unvaccinated adults at the wedding.


And then, as @Amethyst said, it will be on them to decide whether to proceed in a considerate, thoughtful, and kind manner or to take a more belligerent stance.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

What are the rules for large social gatherings in your state currently? You may just want to follow those. In our state now the mask and social distancing rules are being dropped and there's no requirements for all the customers at bars and nightclubs to be vaccinated. If we went to a wedding now with unvaccinated guests our exposure probably wouldn't be much different than if we went out to a restaurant for dinner and live music.

 

[OldShooter]

... it would be easy for me to say (to the anti-vaccination guests) that after consulting with both of their doctors, we feel it would be quite dangerous to expose them to unvaccinated adults at the wedding. ...

Perfect. The essence of the absent authority technique is that your guests are mad at the absent authority, not at you. You don't have to actually bother their doctors, of course.

This is exactly the same as the car dealership game where the absent authority is the sales manager and the sales person pretends to be on your side of the table, helping you to please the absent authority. Hence you are not mad at the salesperson.

 

[MichaelB]

Thinking about this some more ...

There is a technique called "absent authority" negotiation. Without going into detail I'll just suggest that you tell your friends that you consulted your doctor on this question and that he told you that you should not include them. (I doesn't matter whether you talked to your doctor or not, or even if you have a doctor.)

Tough situation.

Could you put a small asterisk at the bottom of the invitation requesting that all guests over age 12 be vaccinated if they plan to attend. That puts the onus on your friend to decide if they want to come (and to go get vaccinated) or decide they don't want to attend. It will be their decision.

I think these are two very good options. The first by OS is how I resolved all the sibling infighting regarding how to care for DM.

 

[Ready]

In California you are still required to wear a mask indoors if you are not vaccinated. It’s an honor system so there is no way to really monitor it. But any time you go to the store you are going to be mixing in with a lot of people, and I’m sure there are at least a few anti-vaxers there at any given point in time. I’m certainly not going to stop shopping out of fear that one of them shows up to the store while I’m there. I’ve been vaccinated and that’s about all I can do to control the situation.

In the OP’s situation if it were me I would either talk to the guests and let them know that you are not comfortable inviting unvaccinated people to the event. Let them decide how to proceed from there. Or maybe compromise and suggest they can attend if they agree to wear a mask while indoors. If they would rather not attend than wear a mask, you probably don’t want them there anyway.

 

[RetireeRobert]

This is a great idea, thanks! There are two elderly folks I'm most concerned about, and it would be easy for me to say (to the anti-vaccination guests) that after consulting with both of their doctors, we feel it would be quite dangerous to expose them to unvaccinated adults at the wedding.


And then, as @Amethyst said, it will be on them to decide whether to proceed in a considerate, thoughtful, and kind manner or to take a more belligerent stance.

And then, the anti-vaxers do not get vaccinated but attend anyway? How does that make "your" wedding day the happiest day of your life all during the festivities?

Either the vaccines do work as advertised to reduce risk of vaccinated people to very very low levels, and you choose to believe that, or not. I believe the vaccines work.

So, your choices are:

1) Explain your worry to the two elderly guests AND to the anti-vaxxers, invite them all, and have the two groups well separated during all the festivities, both groups having full knowledge of "your" worries for them all on "your" happy day;

2) Believe in the demonstrated science, and that the vaccines are very very highly effective, and you need not worry "extraordinarily" about the two elderly vaccinated guests;

3) Try to explain to the anti-vaxers you are concerned about the two elderly guests, and why, and exclude the anti-vaxxers from your wedding, and then bear the risk of either temporarily or perhaps permanently alienating the anti-vaxers;

4) Delay "your" wedding until such time as vaccinated or unvaccinated is no longer of any general concern;

5) Have a private wedding with no guests at all;

6) Elope.

7) Don't get married.