Grand-parenting - Was I out of line?

[Amethyst]

"I need to be able to put my head down on the pillow at night and sleep."

You didn't mean anything bad by this, but it came across to me, a total stranger, as making the question about you and your needs. A little breathless and dramatic, too, as if you were spending nights lying awake just worrying about whether your kids know how to raise kids.

I have had to learn from scratch about the "tone" I use, not just in emails, but long before emails. As an example: My family are very flippant, without meaning anything by it. It is just how we talk to each other - making a wry comment out of everything and chuckling. I probably got away with it in college because I was pretty, but at work I had to stop it right quick b/c I was p***ing people off. It really took a while before I figured out that it was me, not them.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I agree. This is a time to mend fences and not the time to find out how the fence became torn. Unknowingly, OP stepped over some line and now it's time to step back. We have chosen to be totally hands off with our grand kids. Naturally, if we saw an imminent hazard (oncoming car with child in the street) we would step in. We wouldn't "warn" our kids to keep their kids out of traffic. That would be off limits for us. YMMV

Yes, be the bigger guy and let it go. Vent here to us, to other grandparents, etc., but let it lie with your DS and DIL. DIL made a comment to me once that truly hurt my feelings although I doubt she meant to--it was about something that was important to her at the time--but I let it go (after sharing it with my grandma peeps--I'm not that big of a person, but I did not even tell DS about it as it is sort of silly looking back on it) and we have a great relationship now that their little ones are on the verge of leaving toddlerhood.

A little thing I keep in mind that makes me laugh: Q. Why do grandmothers and granddaughters get along so well? A. They both hate the mother.

 

[meierlde]

Note that homeowners insurance will require whatever the city code requires to continue the insurance on the house (they don't want the liability) In any case a pool alarm makes sense as children can figure out most anything, particularly 5-6 who can drown as well, even if able to swim. So you can check out the code for the city in question, and be fairly sure the house meets the requirements of the code.

 

[Bigdawg]

You know the situation better than your semi-anonymous internet friends here. But as an outside observer, I wonder if returning from your travels with a demand for detailed examples of what if anything you ever did wrong, might be taken as another form of badgering by your DS and DIL. In particular, demands for "we'd like to know, specifically, what" was said/done can sound like the third-degree to those receiving the demand. This seems like a time for tact and diplomacy more than direct confrontation.l

+1

 

[Bigdawg]

It's not about the pool!

 

[kaneohe]

I think the lesson here is that life is complicated because there are interactions.
When I was working, I ran a process that worked fine w/ internal materials yet did not work with a vendor's. I could have (probably did in my mind) blame the vendor for poor quality. Yet the vendor could have said that none of his other customers had a problem. If both sides held their ground, nothing would change. It was only after I tweaked the process that things worked with both .

I often wonder why A & B could not stay married yet A is now happy with C
and B with D. Assuming no changes in behavior, I can only guess that there is some magic in how 2 folks interact and some combinations don't work as well.

so no magic advice,just some philosophy and that life is complicated.

 

[REattempt]

Oh lord, really? The last half a dozen posts or so advocate "stepping back," not "stirring the turd," etc. I think the exact opposite.

I think the foundation of relationships is acceptance.

They can't accept you as you are...good riddance. I would reject the relationship on the foundational element of "this is not who I raised you to be." You might be amazed at the regret they feel. Might take a couple years, but I wouldn't take this treatment.

Particularly the "sleep at night" comment. Only shows the depth of concern for the parents and grandchildren, not the selfishness of OP. Sheesh!

 

[CaliKid]

I would not ask them for specific examples. I would drop the subject and mind your own business going forward. The keeper of the grandkids are in charge in our society because they can withhold visits. Don't mess with it.

 

[nash031]

I'm amazed by the answers here. Three thoughts:

Honor thy father and mother. I think many have it backward in this day and age.

Assume positive intent. Why would one assume any less from the individuals who put all their emotion, time, money and love into them. Boundaries...give me a break. The grandparents earned the right, long ago, to say what they want.

I have few life regrets. One big one is that I overreacted to my mother's actions and comments made from love. She is gone. There is a heavy portion of my heart that bears the burden of my crass and selfish responses. I wouldn't wish this regret on anyone.

It's one thing to receive wisdom from your mother and father. It's another to receive it from someone else's. It's yet another to receive it from someone who didn't change a single diaper on his own children. And still another to receive it from that person based on something he read on the internet.

It doesn't matter who the person is: if the advice is ill conceived and ill delivered, it will be received poorly. This advice, while probably well conceived, was very poorly delivered and thus, poorly received by the daughter IN LAW.

Grandparents haven't earned a thing as pertains to how other people and their individual children parent. Give me a break on that. That's like saying I need to listen, nod and smile about my mom's political opinions because she earned it. Nah. Not happening.

 

[nash031]

Oh lord, really? The last half a dozen posts or so advocate "stepping back," not "stirring the turd," etc. I think the exact opposite.

I think the foundation of relationships is acceptance.

They can't accept you as you are...good riddance. I would reject the relationship on the foundational element of "this is not who I raised you to be." You might be amazed at the regret they feel. Might take a couple years, but I wouldn't take this treatment.

Particularly the "sleep at night" comment. Only shows the depth of concern for the parents and grandchildren, not the selfishness of OP. Sheesh!

Do you have kids?

My Mom has often told me that a key role as a parent is knowing when to hold your tongue with your grown children. She learned that by dealing with an intrusive in law herself. She applied it with me, only stepping in a few times when she saw a disaster imminent. She's let me make my own decisions, been there when asked, and rarely offers unsolicited advice. And that's totally out of character for her.

Do you know why she does that? Because her relationship with her son, through all his mistakes, is more important than her ego. And she's there to help pick up the pieces if I don't listen to her. More often than not, I have.

Ultimately, you can't tell your grown kids what to do. Or you can, and then accept the results which will likely be resentment and poor relations. And then both sides - not just one - get to deal with that regret.

 

[aja8888]

I would not ask them for specific examples. I would drop the subject and mind your own business going forward. The keeper of the grandkids are in charge in our society because they can withhold visits. Don't mess with it.

I've read all the posts. This above is my feeling on this matter also. Best to let it lie and let things settle down. No need for anymore calls/conversations that may kindle the flames again.

I'd send them a housewarming card and maybe a gift if you can figure out what would be appropriate. But I'd at least send a card, preferably before you get back from your trip.

 

[growing_older]

Originally Posted by REattempt
They can't accept you as you are...good riddance. I would reject the relationship on the foundational element of "this is not who I raised you to be."

You might be amazed at the regret you will feel. Might take a couple years, but I wouldn't take this treatment.

 

[Amethyst]

I tend to agree with your comments when it comes to friends/acquaintances/neighbors. But family's different.

My social circle is not large, but it includes a surprising number of people, including close relatives, who find themselves permanently estranged from a parent, sibling, or child. And not because anyone hit anyone, or used drugs, or stole money; just because somebody hurt someone else's feelings beyond what could be endured.

And there is regret, yet in some cases, pride will not allow any of them (or the estranged ones either, apparently) to do whatever it is they need to do to fix the relationship. "They caused it!" "If they cared, they would..." "I'm not lowering myself..." "Who could have thought they would feel that way...." "How could they be so touchy...."

They can't accept you as you are...good riddance. I would reject the relationship on the foundational element of "this is not who I raised you to be." You might be amazed at the regret they feel. Might take a couple years, but I wouldn't take this treatment.

Particularly the "sleep at night" comment. Only shows the depth of concern for the parents and grandchildren, not the selfishness of OP. Sheesh!

 

[joeea]

They can't accept you as you are...good riddance. I would reject the relationship on the foundational element of "this is not who I raised you to be."

Most of us wouldn't want to say "good riddance" to our children and grandchildren.

And holding your breath and rejecting a relationship until you get what you want without considering the others' wants isn't what I'd recommend. Your mileage may vary.

When you write "They can't accept you as you are" - it sounds like you expect that they just have to live with you being a controlling meddler. I would never have accepted that from others as a young parent. And I hope I never come across that way as a grandparent.

 

[FUEGO]

My guess: DIL gets irritated by any kind of advice or suggestions or hints coming from her in-laws (or perhaps anyone, because she knows best in all cases at all times). DIL vents on OP's DS. DS snaps from hearing DIL complain one time too many, and tries to "fix the problem" by getting OP to hush up because it's easier to make your parents a little mad than it is your wife (one you see occasionally the other you typically spend at least 8 hours within a few feet of them on a daily basis).

 

[Donny68]

You are not wrong at all. She definitely took it the wrong way but seriously, get a pool fence. It makes me mad just thinking about it. She has a crawling baby and a pool that the baby could crawl into... she needs to hear it. Kids can surprise you with how fast they move when you look away for a few seconds.


It is possible parenting advise coming from all around is getting old to them but life or death safety advise is important, they will need to get over it. My wife makes me check the car seat at her parents house every few months to make sure they are doing it right. My son is 2.5 and is barely ever even in that car. Her parents just go along with it because safety is more important than whether or not we think they are good at grand parenting. Kind of backwards compared to your situation but still similar.


If you were telling them about food to eat, nap time, or diaper rash cream I could understand how annoyed they would eventually get. This is different, you are right.

 

[RunningBum]

You are not wrong at all. She definitely took it the wrong way but seriously, get a pool fence. It makes me mad just thinking about it. She has a crawling baby and a pool that the baby could crawl into... she needs to hear it. Kids can surprise you with how fast they move when you look away for a few seconds.

You're getting mad about an internet stranger's in laws who haven't done anything about a house they don't even own yet?

 

[Donny68]

You're getting mad about an internet stranger's in laws who haven't done anything about a house they don't even own yet?

Thank you for making that analogy to try to make me sound ridiculous. I'm sure it made you feel good but you are missing the point. It is okay to get upset while thinking about what could happen in a situation where emotion, pride, or whatever gets in the way of child safety. Is there something wrong with caring about children whether I know them or not? They may not live in the house yet but it did seem like they weren't bothered by not having a fence there. Nobody wants to say "I told you so" if something were to happen here.

 

[CaliKid]

Thank you for making that analogy to try to make me sound ridiculous. I'm sure it made you feel good but you are missing the point. It is okay to get upset while thinking about what could happen in a situation where emotion, pride, or whatever gets in the way of child safety. Is there something wrong with caring about children whether I know them or not? They may not live in the house yet but it did seem like they weren't bothered by not having a fence there. Nobody wants to say "I told you so" if something were to happen here.

You don't sound ridiculous but this is NOT about the pool fence. The pool fence was clearly just the final straw.

 

[nash031]

My wife makes me check the car seat at her parents house every few months to make sure they are doing it right. My son is 2.5 and is barely ever even in that car. Her parents just go along with it because safety is more important than whether or not we think they are good at grand parenting. Kind of backwards compared to your situation but still similar.

I don't think it's all that similar. In your case, you're taking responsibility for the safety of your own child. We do the same - checking any car seat our daughter gets in, regardless of whose car it is.

The problem I had was less about the advice and more about the delivery, which seemed about the original poster, made it sound like there was no way they'd thought of it already, and was delivered in a manner I might expect a letter from the HOA and at a time where they were excited about moving in to a new home and wanted to share it with the in-laws, only to get "lectured".

I'd have responded in the same way. There are other, better ways to make this point without chafing the relationship, some of which have been outlined here already.

 

[Meadbh]

I'm not a parent, but....

Going back to the original post, the way the story was told is that the DIL shared pictures of the house that they have had an offer accepted on, and the OP, who could not see a fence, brought up the subject.

As I see it, there is no reason to assume any negligence on the part of DIL and DS. They cannot install the fence until after the closing date. For all we know, they may already have identified this as their first priority once they own the house. I can see no information presented that suggests they are not safety conscious parents.

DIL, who was just trying to share images of this exciting new home with her in-laws, was greeted with an email that, frankly, makes assumptions that sound rather judgmental. DIL's judgment as a mother was questioned. I am not at all surprised at her reaction and at DS's jumping to her defence. I also think that their response was carefully crafted and appropriate.

This is all about communication. Mistakes have been made. I think it would be appropriate for the OP to apologize in person after returning from his travels, and then to let things evolve.

This is just one more reminder how careful we all need to be in framing the tone of our communications. It is so easy to cause offence. I know, I have done it many times.

 

[spncity]

I hear you. I feel for you, and completely understand your intent (and fear).

So why would you get that kind of reply when you ask about a pool fence?

You believe you have not been doing anything that could be construed as intrusive. The question comes to mind, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

Can wording and timing really make all the difference? Hindsight, of course, seems great.

Hit rewind:

Your adult child's spouse shows you the house. You email the spouse: "Thanks for showing us the house. Congratulations - it's the perfect place for making many great memories!"

A few days later, to your own adult child: "What are your thoughts re: a pool fence? We'd like to fund that project as a housewarming gift."

No tough love message is sent to you at this time.

But -- since you have been communicating "something" of which you've been unaware, and it's not being received the way you thought it was, it was likely inevitable that this "message" from your son and DIL was going to be sent or said sometime along the way.

They did a pretty nice - even polite - job of phrasing the problem and the solution in their request for you to honor a boundary.

(Would you want them to stay quiet and let you continue to unknowingly offend?)

Here's what I've said (separately) to our young adult kids: "I need for you to tell me - candidly - if ever I am doing or saying something that is hurting our relationship, because that wouldn't be my intention, and I may not even realize I'm doing it." I did add: "I would hope you'll give some thought to the timing and tone of the conversation, but I'm serious when I say I want to know."

You received adult-to-adult feedback. That's awesome, and shows you did a great job of raising your son.

 

[Amethyst]

Bingo...

I
They did a pretty nice - even polite - job of phrasing the problem and the solution in their request for you to honor a boundary...

You received adult-to-adult feedback. That's awesome, and shows you did a great job of raising your son.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I hear you. I feel for you, and completely understand your intent (and fear).

So why would you get that kind of reply when you ask about a pool fence?

You believe you have not been doing anything that could be construed as intrusive. The question comes to mind, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

Can wording and timing really make all the difference? Hindsight, of course, seems great.

Hit rewind:

Your adult child's spouse shows you the house. You email the spouse: "Thanks for showing us the house. Congratulations - it's the perfect place for making many great memories!"

A few days later, to your own adult child: "What are your thoughts re: a pool fence? We'd like to fund that project as a housewarming gift."

No tough love message is sent to you at this time.

But -- since you have been communicating "something" of which you've been unaware, and it's not being received the way you thought it was, it was likely inevitable that this "message" from your son and DIL was going to be sent or said sometime along the way.

They did a pretty nice - even polite - job of phrasing the problem and the solution in their request for you to honor a boundary.

(Would you want them to stay quiet and let you continue to unknowingly offend?)

Here's what I've said (separately) to our young adult kids: "I need for you to tell me - candidly - if ever I am doing or saying something that is hurting our relationship, because that wouldn't be my intention, and I may not even realize I'm doing it." I did add: "I would hope you'll give some thought to the timing and tone of the conversation, but I'm serious when I say I want to know."

You received adult-to-adult feedback. That's awesome, and shows you did a great job of raising your son.

What a great post! What jumped out at me was, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?" It took me many years to learn that lesson. And I frequently forget.

As a pediatrician, I've often heard complaining mothers about meddling grandparents. Some grandparent advice was out of date, and actually unsafe. My response was the parent needs to be the parent. The grandparents already had their turn raising children.

When I had to give unsolicited advice as a pediatrician (which was my job), I started by saying that part of my job is to give unsolicited advice, with a smile on my face, and that it is their choice what to do with it. Usually that worked very well.

But that is not a grandparent's job. Your job is to give love and support. Enjoy your grandchild and praise your son and DIL. That's it. Unsolicited advice from well-meaning relatives can destroy relationships. Don't do it. Leave the parenting to the parents. And the advising to the advisors. Your grandchild has a pediatrician whose job it is to give safety advice. And your son and DIL will have an insurance agent that will want them to have a perimeter fence as well.

 

[RunningBum]

Thank you for making that analogy to try to make me sound ridiculous. I'm sure it made you feel good but you are missing the point. It is okay to get upset while thinking about what could happen in a situation where emotion, pride, or whatever gets in the way of child safety. Is there something wrong with caring about children whether I know them or not? They may not live in the house yet but it did seem like they weren't bothered by not having a fence there. Nobody wants to say "I told you so" if something were to happen here.

There is no evidence whatsoever that this is true. None. From the OP:

DIL's reply (verbatim) "No it does not [have a pool fence]. However, as parents, we have already discussed what we need to do to ensure our child's safety. Please allow us to worry. You have nothing to worry about. Trust us with raising and caring for our child."