Why do people think we’re/I’m crazy? Lol

[Winemaker]

Congratulations. I find myself wanting to yell "insider trading" but I must acknowledge a mature approach to deal with reality.

I'm not sure what you are referring to, maybe I wasn't clear enough. The conversation was in 1992 and was about a different megacorp than the one I worked for. My megagcorp didn't cut benefits until my division was sold off, to a private firm that didn't offer benefits unless you had 10 years with the new organization. I wasn't working til I was 66. If my division wasn't sold off, I'd have nothing, but it wasn't the megacorp discussed in 1992.

 

[athena53]

I'm not sure what you are referring to, maybe I wasn't clear enough. The conversation was in 1992 and was about a different megacorp than the one I worked for. My megagcorp didn't cut benefits until my division was sold off, to a private firm that didn't offer benefits unless you had 10 years with the new organization. I wasn't working til I was 66. If my division wasn't sold off, I'd have nothing, but it wasn't the megacorp discussed in 1992.

I know your response was to someone else but yes, I got your point. You saw very early on how hard another Megacorp was working to find legal ways to cut retiree benefits and realized that nothing in your own Megacorp was set in stone. This also happened to my brother and his wife: he ER'd from a company that provided fully-paid retiree health insurance- until it didn't, starting the first of this year. They're stuck with $22K/year in health insurance premiums. He's 62 and she's 63 so they have to slog through private health insurance for a few years- no subsidies because apparently his pension is pretty generous. He'll be OK because their house is paid for and they don't share my expensive travel habits, but it was a shock.

As for the mention of house and cars: I agree. The last time I bought a current model year car was 1991 and when I moved out of NJ, where ANY decent house cost a fortune and into a LCOL area in the Midwest, DH and I were able to stash away a whole lot more for retirement. I'm profoundly grateful we didn't buy the fanciest house we could afford; we did buy more than we needed and I'm glad we downsized in 2015. I'm saving plenty on utilities and other house-related costs.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I know your response was to someone else but yes, I got your point. You saw very early on how hard another Megacorp was working to find legal ways to cut retiree benefits and realized that nothing in your own Megacorp was set in stone.

With all the "creative destruction" going on in the economy these days, there's also the chance that the megacorp delivering retiree benefits may not be around in years to come. An anticipated pension then may become the responsibility of the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. -- which likely will pay out only a fraction of the expected benefit.

When DW and I became eligible for our small company pensions at age 60, we got advice to hold off claiming it so that the payout increased. But we considered the unsettled nature of the industry and decided that we'll take what we can get now rather than the promise of more money later.

 

[scrabbler1]

I know your response was to someone else but yes, I got your point. You saw very early on how hard another Megacorp was working to find legal ways to cut retiree benefits and realized that nothing in your own Megacorp was set in stone. This also happened to my brother and his wife: he ER'd from a company that provided fully-paid retiree health insurance- until it didn't, starting the first of this year. They're stuck with $22K/year in health insurance premiums. He's 62 and she's 63 so they have to slog through private health insurance for a few years- no subsidies because apparently his pension is pretty generous. He'll be OK because their house is paid for and they don't share my expensive travel habits, but it was a shock.

This reminds me of how my former Megacorp reduced its retiree benefits program at the end of 2001. On Friday afternoon, November 30th, HR held large meetings to explain the cutbacks to the program. They included the freezing of its pension for those who did not qualify to get grandfathered in, the elimination of the pension for new employees going forward, the creation of a Cash Balance program for those who were not grandfathered into the pension and for new hires. They also eliminated retiree health benefits for new retirees going forward and a freezing of the employer subsidy for current retirees receiving health insurance. This would become effective January 1, 2002.

The health benefits changes greatly concerned those employees who were considering retiring very soon. Because anyone retiring had to give HR one month's notice, this meant that many employees would have to let HR know before they left for the day after the meeting was over in order to be able to retire before 1/1/2002. But by the time they got back to their desks, it was after 4 PM and HR was basically gone for the day and unable to take any retirement requests until Monday, too late to retire under current (pre-2002) rules.

This infuriated those employees who felt they had been cheated out being able to retire under the existing rules due to this underhanded tactic. I'm sure the words "class action lawsuit" were bandied about, and Megacorp relented and allowed them to retire under the existing rules including health benefits.

 

[Luck_Club]

At that point, I realized if I was ever going to retire healthy and happy, that it would be up to DW and myself to achieve that goal. It was hard to swallow that "everyone was out to get us" but we truly believed it.

You'd be paranoid too if everyone was out to get you!

In all seriousness, this has been my drive for many many years. It has served me well. Just had the start of another one trying to get over on me recently.

 

[kcowan]

Those expenses make a much, much bigger difference on your ability to save than the "other" crowd seems to understand.

In 1981, we moved into an acreage subdivision and a 5000 sq.ft. house. I discovered new houses being built that were 10,000 sq.ft. and up!

I decided that that was nuts. So when the kids went away to college, I proposed to DW that we move to a 1200 sq.ft. house on a lake 10 miles away. (and put substantial coin into investments!). She refused. I realized then that I would be working too long with my SAHM.

So I left and also found a more suitable partner. We have been together for 22 years and retired for 15. Sometimes you have to take dramatic action to get your way...

 

[kcowan]

I'm not sure what you are referring to, maybe I wasn't clear enough. The conversation was in 1992 and was about a different megacorp than the one I worked for. My megagcorp didn't cut benefits until my division was sold off, to a private firm that didn't offer benefits unless you had 10 years with the new organization. I wasn't working til I was 66. If my division wasn't sold off, I'd have nothing, but it wasn't the megacorp discussed in 1992.

Yes I meant inside knowledge which you did not have, just good judgement as to what was likely in the cards. My megacorp used to offer worldwide medical coverage for retirees for life. The people that relied on that have been very disappointed because now medical costs will chew up half their pensions. I got out at 49 and had 11 years to build a fortress of cash against such costs.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

Personally, the whole FIRE thing wasn't on the radar for me until my mid-30's because I was busy trying to grow my career. (I'm really impressed by young people in their 20's that have their act together and are thinking about FIRE). It would have been a "reach for the sky" type concept if you had talked to me about FIRE at that point in my life.
However, I was kind of lucky in that even though I wasn't really well versed in personal finance concepts, I had some good enough habits that allowed me to develop a foundation so that I could eventually see a roadmap to FIRE. I don't think most people take the time to sketch out this roadmap to see what's possible which is why FIRE seems like a foreign/stretch concept.

I typically don't talk to people at work and extended family about FIRE because I don't want to let on about my plans nor get to much into financial discussions with them. However, I do talk about FIRE with my siblings. We're all in a relatively good place financially and are very close-knit so we want to help each other. I also chat about FIRE in detail with a select set of friends that have similar FIRE goals to share ideas and because we like talking about it. However, I don't really get into the discussion weeds with friends that aren't interested in the topic other than them knowing it's one of my goals, so if they're curious they can bounce a question off of me.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Jubilation:

1350-1400; Middle English jubilacioun (< Anglo-French) < Latin jūbilātiōn- (stem of jūbilātiō) a shouting for joy, equivalent to jūbilāt- (see jubilate ) + -iōn- -ion

How many of us actually shouted for joy? I mostly felt relief and was determined to continue to remain quietly inconspicuous, like a lucky lottery winner.

-BB

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Huntnful,
I started to think seriously about financial independence/early retirement when I was 39. I worked out our first draft plan with my wife and told a friend who was in town and staying over with us. I remember it was late at night, my wife had gone to bed, and I described with joy our plan. His response was silence for several minutes, then he said, "BB, I would never to think to ask so much from life." I was astounded! Why the hell not?

BTW, I retired 3 years ago to a comfortable life in Europe and all the time I want to follow my nose, even if it leads back to bed after reading the morning's news My friend? Still working, wearing out shoes, and not asking too much from his life.

Financial independence always meant to me the freedom to choose how to spend my day, even it involved w*rk of some sort. Freedom to say "no" to anyone for requests to do something I didn't particularly like or want to do.

Not everyone wants that or even gets that it is a possibility.

-BB

 

[Andre1969]

I think the idea of early retirement, and being totally free to do what you want and untethered to the w*rkplace, is simply an alien concept to too many people. Heck, I think even the concept of investing, compounding, and delaying instant gratification for a greater future gain is lost on a lot of people.

I think my big turning point came in the summer of 1991. My Granddad let me have a financial magazine he was planning to throw out...Kiplingers, Money, something like that. Anyway, it had some article in it that showcased some high performing mutual funds. One of them listed was 20th Century Ultra (American Century Ultra today). It had a return of something like 20%.

I ran the numbers through a calculator, and discovered that if I invested $1,000 into something that could return 20% per year, by the 39th year it would be worth $1M! Now obviously, this isn't realistic. First off, I'm sure there's very little out there that will consistently give you 20% per year. Then there's taxes. Then factor in inflation. $1M today is roughly the equivalent of $555K back in 1991. Go back 39 years, and it's more like $265K. So, even if I could get 20% each year, and no taxes, I guess it would be more like turning $1K into ~$265K in 1991 money, after 39 years.

But, I also figured that, over my lifetime, I'd be investing a lot more than just that initial $1000, so I should be well-off financially long before that 39 year period was up.

I remember explaining that concept to one of my friends, at the time. The only thing he could grasp was "Man, that's a long time to wait for a million bucks!"

Anyway, going back to 1991, I did end up investing with 20th Century, but I goofed up and bought their Growth fund instead of their Ultra. I'm not sure exactly how much it's made over the years, because at one point I had to sell it off, during a bad divorce, and then bought some back when I could afford it. And, I've bought and sold a bit over the years as I've rebalanced. I do remember it was going for around $21 per share when I bought it back in 1991, and it just closed at $33.71 last night. Just inflation since 1991 should bring that up to around $37.79 per share, but the current share price doesn't reflect the fact that it's paid out a lot of capital gains over the years. According to their website, it's averaged 13.59% over its life. I think the fund started in 1971, and this assumes all distributions are reinvested.

Anyway, awhile back I figured I'd try to retire around age 50-51. I'll be 48 in a few months, and I'm still on course for that timeframe. But, as the years have passed and the date gets closer, I haven't been so open about my plans. I've learned that people either don't believe it, think I'm crazy, foolish for taking such a chance, etc.

 

[kcowan]

I was fortunate to have a DB Pension when I was 49. I was not ready to retire and decided to consult. Two of the assignments lead to appointment to Executive/CEO positions. I learned a lot and had fun in those assignments. Plus made a sh t load of cash.

I had always planned on retiring at 55. A late divorce caused me to work another 5 years. (i.e. rebuilding half my net worth took only 5 years.)

 

[omni550]

Jubilation:

1350-1400; Middle English jubilacioun (< Anglo-French) < Latin jūbilātiōn- (stem of jūbilātiō) a shouting for joy, equivalent to jūbilāt- (see jubilate ) + -iōn- -ion

How many of us actually shouted for joy? I mostly felt relief and was determined to continue to remain quietly inconspicuous, like a lucky lottery winner.

-BB

Eleven years ago, I was thrilled when I walked out of Mega-Motors' doors forever.

In retirement, I've spent some time in Spanish-speaking countries. When asked what sort of "trabajo" (= work) I do, I loved responding with "Soy jubilada" (which, besides stating "I'm retired", made me feel like I was saying "I'm jubilant" which was very accurate. )


omni

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I think my big turning point came in the summer of 1991. My Granddad let me have a financial magazine he was planning to throw out...Kiplingers, Money, something like that. Anyway, it had some article in it that showcased some high performing mutual funds. One of them listed was 20th Century Ultra (American Century Ultra today). It had a return of something like 20%.

Twentieth Century Ultra was my clarion call too, about the same time. It had had a big run-up, and of course I wanted to invest with a winner. So I sent them some of my then-meager IRA funds. In retrospect, I did OK with Ultra for a few years.

My parents had always been savers, but very conservative and almost totally into CDs. They had taken a few flyers in the market over the years with less-than-stellar results. I still have the stock certificate from when Mom invested in the Tucker Motor Corp. in 1947! I suppose that may have some collectible value -- I probably should have sold it when that Jeff Bridges movie came out.

They did get me interested in IRAs, though, and I had about 10 grand put away when Money magazine convinced me that DW and I could do better than CDs, so I started getting us into mutual funds. We've had money in a few individual stocks, but really, mutual funds turned out to be the answer for us.

 

[Music Lover]

+1. I see lots of middle aged folks out at the stores between 9 to 5 and I always think 'Why aren't these bums at work?'. Seriously. LOL.

Well, maybe some of them are retired. But, it's far more likely that many of them simply work evenings or nights.

 

[EvrClrx311]

Retirement is planning, and few humans focus enough on future plans, when current plans need to be sacrificed (See delayed gratification). Very simply, FIRE is the planning (roadmap) to exchange money now, for time later. Most people don't understand or care enough to come up with a plan to set aside money now for getting time back later. Rather than come up with that plan, or educate themselves on it... they choose to justify (or make excuses for; head in the sand) their current spending. Part of that requires them to oppose anyone who does have a map to accomplish such a thing -- least they be considered the "crazy" one.

 

[exnavynuke]

Well, maybe some of them are retired. But, it's far more likely that many of them simply work evenings or nights.

Alternatively, I'd guess that many of them don't work because their spouse is the sole income generator in the relationship.

 

[kevdude]

So, w*rk can be a millstone -- or, if you're at the top of the heap, or feel liberated from the usual career pressures, it can be invigorating. My career was invigorating until it wasn't. That's when I got out.

+1

Fortunately we were in a position for this to happen.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

Don't feel bad, I work for a major brokerage firm, and no one ever told me you could retire early- they just told me I should save 10%. They sort of encourage the spendy lifestyle. Better employee retention I'm sure.

Hilariously, whenever I had a horrid day, I upped my 401-K w/h percentage, which worked in my favor as I got yelled at a LOT when the market was down- i.e. the ideal time to buy. Also I am cheap, so I don't spend a lot. FFWD to lately- I have mentioned to a few colleagues that I plan to retire early and they are SHOCKED. Like "are you sure you can afford to?" Really? Yeah, I'm sure. One colleague actually asked me if I had inherited money. um. no. Parents are in excellent health. I assume my years in retirement to be 50 years.

The first time I got that reaction, I thought "don't you know how this works? I mean, we show people how to retire for a living." The next time I actually told someone- "play with your retirement calculator. Try saving 30% of your income." The reaction I got was horror- "30%?? But I have a mortgage!!" I didn't. Of course I didn't live in a posh house either. I decided in 2008-2009 that i would not be doing this forever. Are we the norm? Nope. Do I care? Nope. Happy to be amongst like-minded folks here.

 

[bclover]

I’ve brought up the concept of FIRE to quite a few people now, since I’ve been on this path for around 7 months. While some are accepting and eager to hear about it, the MAJORITY thinks it’s crazy and laugh and pretty much say good luck. I had my friend ask if I was going through a mid life crisis hahaha. It just seems so simple and intriguing to me that I’d figure everyone would want to do it. Why work your whole life away just because it’s the normal thing to do?!

Because it's normal. human beings are pretty much tribe animals, we like to feel included in the group. As a rule "outliers" are not looked upon fondly.

Now my brother works at the post office, he absolutely thinks I'm crazy for going P/t. He says all the time "why not work". He truly feels work keeps him young, gives him purpose and he interacts with different people.

He has every intention of working until he can no longer physically do so.

I have no problem with that at all.

 

[Montecfo]

You obviously are talking to the wrong people.

I think it is accurate, though, that most people cannot conceive of it for themselves, so it seems a bit wacko. Plus even though they like vacations, I think some feel they have no idea what they will do with themselves.

I also think since you have oldsters like Boone Pickens, Carl Icahn, Buffett (both Warren nd Jimmy for that matter) etc (who have their own gigs) saying they do not plan to retire, it seems "Cool" to people to say the same.

I guess when you are punching THE Man's timeclock your whole life, you need some way to rationalize it.

F. Scott Fitzgerald said it well, "The early retiree is different than you and me, able to fully embrace and enjoy life early, and it does something to them. It makes their life full where ours are wanting, they truly live while we toil in quiet desperation. They are goal-focused and see life in a way that you cannot understand unless you are an early retiree".

Cheers!

(that was F. Scott Fitzgerald wasn't it?)

 

[JoeWras]

Dropped a subtle hint to a fellow late 50-something co-w*rker recently after we had some lay offs. (I wasn't picked... darn.)

Anyway, we were talking about where the laid-off will land. I said something like, "The beach, in a hammock." He went crazy and started scolding me for such thoughts because if I were to do that, I'd rot my brain, etc., etc.

Sheesh! The pressure to work until you die is pretty ingrained.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Because YOU are crazy... WE need you to keep working and feeding money into social security so WE can keep collecting !!!!

Just listen to some of the asshat talking heads of personal money management ... Must keep working to 70 ! and I think we all know who I am tackling about.... Early Retirement ? YOU ARE DENIED !

So keep at it in the salt mine and work till you die so you will not get social security !

 

[Olbidness]

I've got a neighbor that retired at 75 and through our conversations knew my plan was to retire at 55,(achievied my goal last year). He would occasionally make snarky comments about my plans and I just let it roll off. We had a mutual friend about my age get laid-off from his IT job and hasn't had any luck getting a new one. My neighbor said that our friend would have to find a new job because "his mind is too good not to work". Guess mine's not, the snark continues.

 

[parhur]

these are the same people that can tell you there fantasy football stats but have no ideal what a 401 K is. That is what drives me crazy. they are just lazy