Farmland with trees purchase question - brace yourself!

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

... I have cut down a few trees myself for various reasons over the years and have usually just burned the stumps out to cleared the area. (FYI, you are not going to be able to pull a large tree stump out even with a full size farm tractor without a lot of digging and root chopping first - ask me how I know ) I guess I could buy a stump grinder or have someone do it, or rent a good size dozer or BH, but it's easy enough to burn them out for the few I've cut down. Just something else you'll need to decide on and deal with from time to time living in the county.

I see a lot of old farm tractors on the market, you can tell if they were used to stump pulling. The wheel around the hub will have stress fractures in it. Pulling stumps is extremely dangerous and it destroys the equipment.

The site-work contractor who put in my driveway offered to give me a quote to clear and level out as much of my land as I wanted to pay for. His thought is to bring in dozers, excavators and explosives. My land includes some peat bog swamp. His idea is to push all the stumps into the swamp and bury them. He swears that he has done this many times in the past.

Since I moved to this state, I have watched what people try to do with their stumps. Burying may actually be the fastest and cheapest method. But I think that over the next 20-years you would have sinkholes opening everywhere.

 

[Clone]

Also- If there is any highly erodible soil on the property, you could run afoul of the sodbuster or swambuster laws. These laws make it about impossible to farm ground within the USDA farm program. There is probably a reason that the ground was grown up in trees rather than being cropped.

 

[MRG]

I see a lot of old farm tractors on the market, you can tell if they were used to stump pulling. The wheel around the hub will have stress fractures in it. Pulling stumps is extremely dangerous and it destroys the equipment.

The site-work contractor who put in my driveway offered to give me a quote to clear and level out as much of my land as I wanted to pay for. His thought is to bring in dozers, excavators and explosives. My land includes some peat bog swamp. His idea is to push all the stumps into the swamp and bury them. He swears that he has done this many times in the past.

Since I moved to this state, I have watched what people try to do with their stumps. Burying may actually be the fastest and cheapest method. But I think that over the next 20-years you would have sinkholes opening everywhere.

Yes pulling stumps on a tractor is a good way to end up dead. I knew an experienced logger who pushed it too far skidding out a big walnut. RIP.

 

[aja8888]

Maybe change your thought process toward dairy farming instead of logging?

 

[haha]

Maybe change your thought process toward dairy farming instead of logging?

Better yet, write code in an air conditioned office and live in an upscale building walking distance from work. Everything said above about the physical danger, hard work in the heat, and something that looks about like the Somme in 1918 when you are done is accurate. Don’t ask me how I know!

Ha

 

[ivinsfan]

Maybe change your thought process toward dairy farming instead of logging?

I thought the OP wanted positive passive cash flow. Not work your tail off negative cash flow. As someone who had dairy cows for 40 years, I wouldn't suggest that option to my worst enemy.

 

[pjigar]

After all I have read, I learned that tree farming for timber is not profitable unless you have first hand experience on timber industry. Aside from that, ANY farming is hard work and you have to love what you do to even break even. YMMV.

I keep bees, and I tell you that the honey is not FREE and it's worth every penny you pay at the farmers market. BTW, Super market honey is not real most of the time.

PS: I have a tech desk job on a computer and my father was a farmer so I have first hand experience of both the worlds. If it is only about the money then your desk job is 1000x better than anything to do with farming. Make some more money and buy what you like without invoking money in the equation.

 

[meierlde]

Given how hard it is to clear stumps today, image doing it in the 1820s No machines, perhaps a team, here is a link to a description of how it was done: https://www.sctimes.com/story/life/2015/02/14/pioneers-farming-started-stump-clearing/23418141/
Evidently about 1800 stumps were left several years and then burned out.

 

[gstillson]

The value in forestry land is not the trees, it is the reduction in property tax (if one desires a lot of acreage in a area with fairly high land values). Someone might only pay $100 a year for 100 acres of forest land where that land would be taxed at best use value otherwise and might see $2000 to $5000 a year in property tax. You never need to harvest the trees either.

 

[kcowan]

I own 150 acres of woodlot. In a state that is 92% forest. Forestry is a big deal here. But the timber industry has died. Even here, when I go to buy a 2X4 it is imported from Canada. It is cheaper to import than is it to harvest locally..

The Canadian softwood lumber industry thanks you for paying those import tariffs imposed by your government. Really!

 

[gstillson]

The Canadian softwood lumber industry thanks you for paying those import tariffs imposed by your government. Really!

Wait, wouldn't the removal of those tariffs make it even cheaper to import from Canada?

 

[karen1972]

I can only shake my head.. I come from a long line of farmers and sawmill owners. I have yet to see any "quick" money in either of those.

Btw, you also will want to get really friendly with the DNR and other govt agencies, really look at the land and see what uses the land are allowed, what potential "wet land" is claimed to be on the property, etc. I've seen farmers not be able to use huge sections of their land because at some point 100 years ago someone reported a cattail on the property so it was deemed "wetland". We lost almost 40 acres due to a beaver infestation that we were not allowed to do anything about ..so they diverted the river into our property flooding it completely... the laws eventually changed but it was too late.

 

[mystang52]

I don't think I saw this mentioned yet. In this day and age of environmental impact laws, OP shouldn't presume he can just sell those trees to be chopped down. One more negative factor to consider, anyway.

 

[MRG]

Given how hard it is to clear stumps today, image doing it in the 1820s No machines, perhaps a team, here is a link to a description of how it was done: https://www.sctimes.com/story/life/2015/02/14/pioneers-farming-started-stump-clearing/23418141/
Evidently about 1800 stumps were left several years and then burned out.

I was in the walnut industry after the days of digging stumps. We were after fancy grain walnut and stumps were good sources.

So we had a logging crew dig up six stumps and paid big $$$$, too much work even with the aid of modern day heavy equipment. I had a crew of two men start cleaning them of all the rock and dirt before they could be sawn. I watched these guy closely as nobody, still alive, had ever cleaned a stump for sawing. One piece of missed flint and a disaster would happen when the 7' bandsaw hit it.

I figured if it took two days to clean one stump these guys were working hard. They also had a fire hose and modern tools to aid them. While there was some fancy grain walnut in them it wasn't financially feasible to do it.

Those old time folks were tough birds.

 

[HFWR]

Better yet, write code in an air conditioned office and live in an upscale building walking distance from work. Everything said above about the physical danger, hard work in the heat, and something that looks about like the Somme in 1918 when you are done is accurate. Don’t ask me how I know!

Ha

+1

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

Given how hard it is to clear stumps today, image doing it in the 1820s No machines, perhaps a team, here is a link to a description of how it was done: https://www.sctimes.com/story/life/2015/02/14/pioneers-farming-started-stump-clearing/23418141/
Evidently about 1800 stumps were left several years and then burned out.

Old time farmer wisdom from 1900 was to plow around the stumps and never go back to dig them out. One day of plowing with a team of oxen might allow you to plow 40 acres. A week of yanking on a stump with a team of oxen, will destroy all your tack and the stump may still be there.

The Canadian softwood lumber industry thanks you for paying those import tariffs imposed by your government. Really!

My understanding is that Canadian lumber is heavily subsidized.

 

[Spock]

I know nothing about trees or farming. I'm a tech guy.

1. Watch some youtube vids on the equipment required to get the stumps out of the ground, then extrapolate to picking up the stumps, disposing of them, and back filling the holes they came out of.


2. Stick to playing farmville.

 

[MOSAT]

I had the unforgettable experience of pulling (1) one stump the old fashion way with my father when I was in my early teens. Block and tackle, pix axe and grub axe, no power other than what we could generate.
It was only one of many such experiences that drove me to college for a STEM degree.

 

[Red Badger]

After perusing all the cautionary (and experience based) feedback, I think I see a way for OP to make a killing. Turn the idea into one of the silly and fake "reality TV" shows.

 

[pjigar]

I had the unforgettable experience of pulling (1) one stump the old fashion way with my father when I was in my early teens. Block and tackle, pix axe and grub axe, no power other than what we could generate.
It was only one of many such experiences that drove me to college for a STEM degree.[emoji23]

Mee too! I was a "human ox" among other things during my teenage years.

 

[Brat]

If the OP wants to replace trees harvested seedlings can be purchased from a tree farm. If he wants to remove stumps drill holes in the stump top and apply potassium nitrate. Potassium nitrate excellarates the rotting process.

 

[kcowan]

Wait, wouldn't the removal of those tariffs make it even cheaper to import from Canada?

Yes but the softwood lobby convinced Congress (remember when Congress had to approve all tariffs) that they were being hurt by the low prices. The result is higher profits for the industry and a windfall profit for the government. It is good to see how the model worked out because we have no idea how the extensive tariffs proposed now will work out.

 

[kcowan]

My understanding is that Canadian lumber is heavily subsidized.

Yes that is what the softwood lumber lobby would have you believe. Most of northern Ontario, Quebec and BC is wild unoccupied forests on Crown land. The government charges a stumpage fee to harvest the trees. The lobby compares this to the costs of growing trees on a tree farm! One is a natural resource and the other is a cash crop.

We do the same thing with oil and gas exported to the US. But since they are not a cash crop, there is no opposition. In that case, the price is set by OPEC but we charge much less than that. You're welcome.

 

[ivinsfan]

OP did we scare you off? I do think we pretty much have answered your question

 

[RunningBum]

OP did we scare you off? I do think we pretty much have answered your question

No activity since a few minutes after the initial post. Probably brainstorming his next big idea.