how would you account for these assets?

ER_Hopeful

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
302
Location
near L.A.
my former company has a pension plan, the balance is around $44k at the moment and will provide about $600 per month when I turn 65. would you include the $44k in your networth?

My house has a separate studio in the back which I plan to rent out when I retire early. I can get about $700 a month. How would you calculate its value for networth inclusion?
 
Sounds like the pension plan is a DC plan and you could opt to roll the $44k into an IRA or invoke the pension option... if so I would include the DC plan balance as an asset... if the only option is as a pension then nil (disclosure item only).

On the second part, it would be included in the value of your house, part of NW but probably not part of retirement assets.... at best, include $700/month as an offset to spending.
 
my former company has a pension plan, the balance is around $44k at the moment and will provide about $600 per month when I turn 65. would you include the $44k in your networth?

My house has a separate studio in the back which I plan to rent out when I retire early. I can get about $700 a month. How would you calculate its value for networth inclusion?

i'd include the pension but not the studio. it sounds like it's part of the main property the net value of which should be in your net worth. i would include the rent...if and when it happens...in your monthly budget.

btw, does your pension have a lump sum option? what happens to it when you die
 
my former company has a pension plan, the balance is around $44k at the moment and will provide about $600 per month when I turn 65. would you include the $44k in your networth?

My house has a separate studio in the back which I plan to rent out when I retire early. I can get about $700 a month. How would you calculate its value for networth inclusion?

I don't compute net worth, because I have no use for it.
 
I once asked someone about net worth and he said, "I cannot say that I am worth all that much, but am glad to report that dogs still wag their tails at me."

-BB
 
my former company has a pension plan, the balance is around $44k at the moment and will provide about $600 per month when I turn 65. would you include the $44k in your networth?

My house has a separate studio in the back which I plan to rent out when I retire early. I can get about $700 a month. How would you calculate its value for networth inclusion?

For net worth? Zero for both.
 
Absolutely count your pension as part of NW.

Studio is just part of the value of your house.
 
Absolutely count your pension as part of NW.

I'll never understand why people say this. If the pension is taken as a lump sum, then it is an asset, and is a component of net worth.

Until then, it is only a potential future income stream. If the holder dies, there is no value at all.
 
I'll never understand why people say this. If the pension is taken as a lump sum, then it is an asset, and is a component of net worth.

Until then, it is only a potential future income stream. If the holder dies, there is no value at all.

That is generally true for traditional defined benefit pensions, although even in that case, some would argue that any guaranteed right to receive future cash inflows meets the definition of an asset, especially if there are survivor benefits. And some consider it a bond-equivalent for AA purposes. I think there are reasonable arguments either way on those points. But FWIW, there is some rather obscure AICPA guidance for personal financial statements, which specifically excludes life-contingent pensions from net worth.

However OP appears to have a DC cash balance pension. DW had such a pension when working. She was required to contribute X% of her salary each paycheck and the balance grew according to the performance of the underlying pension trust assets. She was 100% vested in the balance, so if she had left that employer, she would have taken her balance and rolled it into an IRA. There was also an option to leave it at the employer and receive an annuity at some future date, like age 65, which sort-of sounds like what OP is describing. Turns out, DW retired from this employer and now receives the monthly annuity.

So... prior to her retirement, I included the pension cash balance as an asset in net worth, since we had the right to receive that money at any time had she terminated employment. It was essentially no different than a 401K balance at that point, except we did not control the underlying investments. After retirement, I do not include it because it is now just a guaranteed monthly cash inflow, which will stop when she dies (single life annuity option).

We definitely count the estimated market value of our rental property in net worth. The net cash flow it generates is just another income source, which reduces our need for portfolio withdrawals.
 
I agree with all that you wrote.

I had a somewhat similar DC plan except mine was non-contributory. My employer contributed 7% of my earnings (the percentage was lower lower level staff and increased for more senior personnel... up to 7%). I selected what the money was invested in and the selections were identical to our 401k.

When I quit, I could have annuitized the balance... but the annuitization option wasn't compelling so I just rolled the balance into my tIRA. Since I was vested and had a lump sum option I included the DC plan as an asset.
 
I agree, count in NW if DC and has beneficiary. I also have one not available until 65 (unless I kick the bucket, then it's immediately payable) and it has a current value, which increases a little more than 4% per year until I am 65. I have the current value at the end of each year in NW, but could I guess add the @65 FV.
 
wasn't there a multi page thread on including db pensions in net worth?
 
However OP appears to have a DC cash balance pension. DW had such a pension when working. She was required to contribute X% of her salary each paycheck and the balance grew according to the performance of the underlying pension trust assets. She was 100% vested in the balance, so if she had left that employer, she would have taken her balance and rolled it into an IRA. There was also an option to leave it at the employer and receive an annuity at some future date, like age 65, which sort-of sounds like what OP is describing. Turns out, DW retired from this employer and now receives the monthly annuity.

If there is some guaranteed future value, I agree it should be counted in net worth. If there is the possibility that no funds are ever received, then it should not be.

By some peoples' definitions, social security benefits would be counted as part of net worth, which is completely wrong, IMO.
 
probably, but we repeat frequently as some members were either not around for that thread or didn't see it or weren't paying attention... as Mick Mulvaney would say... get over it. :D
 
By some peoples' definitions, social security benefits would be counted as part of net worth, which is completely wrong, IMO.

why? SS is essentially a contributory defined benefit plan

Why wouldn't I count that as an asset since I've been putting in about 12% a pay for the last 33 years?
 
probably, but we repeat frequently as some members were either not around for that thread or didn't see it or weren't paying attention... as Mick Mulvaney would say... get over it. :D

it's just discounting uncertain cash flows - how difficult is that?

some people do that for a living

:LOL:
 
Because you don't know whether you would live to collect it.

OTOH, it is quite measurable for a group of lives, but for a single individual there are measurement issues... like individual health.
 
it's just discounting uncertain cash flows - how difficult is that?

some people do that for a living

:LOL:

Yes, some people do it for a living, but they do it for a group of lives, not for an individual life. Its the difference between group moratlity and individual mortality... even a pension actuary should be able to understand that. :D
 
Last edited:
Yes, but they do it for a group of lives, not for an individual.

sure we do - lump sum calculations are just that

for my own portfolio I value my life annuity as an asset - no biggie
 
Because you don't know whether you would live to collect it.

OTOH, it is quite measurable for a group of lives, but for a single individual there are measurement issues... like individual health.

I assign a probability of ever collecting SS, be it mortality risk or political risk
 
Back
Top Bottom