Post Vaccination Behavior

[Chuckanut]

I’m not sure how California is going to respond to the latest CDC guidelines. We have been wearing masks inside stores for a year now. If we remove the mandate, each store will have to decide what policy to set for their business. That puts us back to where we were at the beginning of the pandemic, when masks were not mandatory and each store had to come up with their own policy, alienating at least some customers regardless of which position they took.

It seems that the vaccines are good enough to protect the vaccinated from getting Covid, or at least a severe case of it. So going unmasked into a store full of unmasked people is now no more risky than doing the same thing in the middle of a pre-Covid flu season.

Unvaccinated people are rolling the dice. My guess is that once they see somebody they actually know well, who suffers and maybe dies from the disease, they will change their minds. Eventually, non vaccinated people will be like smokers - a small group of people who choose differently from the vast majority. (I will make an exception for those who smoke the occasional pipe or cigar. )

It is regrettable that much of the initial Covid advice was wrong and/or badly communicated. I think we are getting past that, though not completely yet. Some 'experts' seem to be getting it right more often than not these days. I've tracked the predictions of several well known 'experts'. Some (like Gottlieb) seem to be consistently on the mark. Others (names withheld) predicted tragedies such as a USA Covid hurricane in April. It's their shtick. And their shtick doesn't seem to allow for any joy in the populace.

 

[harllee]

The problem is the vaccination is invisible.

We need vaccinations like the old small-pox vaccination. It left a scar at the injection site that lasted for decades. Just roll up your sleeve and show them the proof.

My father (now deceases) was in the 82nd airborne. They gave all the soldiers the small pox vaccine but for some reason it never "took" on my father--he never got the scar (maybe he had small pox as a child?). Every few months they would give him another small pox vaccine. He estimated that in his 4 years in the military he got about half a dozen small pox shots but never got the scar.

 

[REWahoo]

DH has found the masks remarkably effective against pollen and other allergens. I’m sure he looked silly last year tromping around the farm wearing a mask, but it really helped! And sometimes we have smoke outside here, and they help!

Years ago I started wearing a mask when working outdoors/mowing the lawn, which reduced my allergic reactions - and follow on sinus infections - to almost zero. Don't care if it makes me look silly.

 

[REWahoo]

My father (now deceases) was in the 82nd airborne. They gave all the soldiers the small pox vaccine but for some reason it never "took" on my father--he never got the scar (maybe he had small pox as a child?). Every few months they would give him another small pox vaccine. He estimated that in his 4 years in the military he got about half a dozen small pox shots but never got the scar.

Reminds me - I'm old enough to have been given the smallpox vaccine as a child. I recall having to take it a second time as the first attempt didn't "take".

 

[Lienlord]

So bottom line...wear a mask if you are concerned you might catch it (vaccinated much lower risk than unvaccinated). And wear it as long into the future as you feel it's needed. Does that about sum it up?

 

[Aerides]

So bottom line...wear a mask if you are concerned you might catch it (vaccinated much lower risk than unvaccinated). And wear it as long into the future as you feel it's needed. Does that about sum it up?

And wear a mask in any private establishment that asks you to, as the price of admission, regardless of your status.

 

[Lienlord]

And wear a mask in any private establishment that asks you to, as the price of admission, regardless of your status.

Correct. And if you choose not to, take your business to a competing establishment that doesn't require it.
We have one grocery chain in town that still requires them, but about 5 that don't. Those more comfortable being masked will shop at the one, and I will shop at the others. That's the beauty of capitalism in a free country.

I do foresee new signs outside some businesses:

No Shoes
No Shirt
No Mask
No Service!

 

[audreyh1]

Article about the data/studies that convinced the CDC to change mask guidance for vaccinated folks. https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/s-science-convinced-cdc-lift-mask-mandates-rcna932

Walensky highlighted, in particular, three recent studies that demonstrated the impact of the vaccines on symptomatic and asymptomatic infections and one study published just last week on the effectiveness of Covid-19 vaccines against two variants that are known to be circulating in the United States.

Still I think only 36% of US is fully vaccinated with 47% having received at least one dose.

 

[jollystomper]

Years ago I started wearing a mask when working outdoors/mowing the lawn, which reduced my allergic reactions - and follow on sinus infections - to almost zero. Don't care if it makes me look silly.

That was one aspect of "masking up" that I enjoyed - from April to June, with my allergies, my masking no longer appeared abnormal, no suspicious stares from strangers or retail security or when going about my business... a silver lining, I guess .

 

[Lienlord]

Article about the data/studies that convinced the CDC to change mask guidance for vaccinated folks. https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/s-science-convinced-cdc-lift-mask-mandates-rcna932


Still I think only 36% of US is fully vaccinated with 47% having received at least one dose.

True, but the CDC estimates 114M have already been infected, representing another 1/3 of the population. Given that, we should be approaching (if not have already attained), herd immunity. Which is awesome news!

 

[audreyh1]

Those who are estimated to have had COVID is not a segregated population from those vaccinated. There is likely considerable overlap. Probably plenty of folks who didn’t know they had COVID, and others who know they had it are still encouraged get vaccinated.

Ultimately the numbers will tell the story - how low cases go, how few COVID hospitalizations we get, and most importantly whether there are localized flare-ups/surges that routinely occur.

 

[Aerides]

True, but the CDC estimates 114M have already been infected, representing another 1/3 of the population. Given that, we should be approaching (if not have already attained), herd immunity. Which is awesome news!

But the CDC has no way to estimate now many of those 114M have also been vaccinated. There is an obvious overlap, but how big no one can know (more or less than the general population? Anything is a guess, not an estimate, as there's been no tracking on that).

If you assume there's as much as a 75% overlap, then it's not anything like another 1/3. If there's a 50% uptake, then ok 1/6. But we'd all be just guessing and cannot state any number as a fact.

 

[Freedom56]

Los Angeles County is still maintaining the mask mandate vaccinated or not. Retail store employees don't need to become the vaccination police. Many retail stores announced that they intend to maintain the mask mandate while they review the new guidance. Since it's impossible to differentiate between someone who is vaccinated and someone who is not, mask mandates will likely be in force until we are close to herd immunity.

 

[Retch The Grate]

So now I'm making plans for attending an outdoor three day psytrance (and house/techno) party in the desert in southern california in mid June. I think I'll likely wear my mask when dancing, unless there is enough space to spread out that I don't feel like anybody is nearby. I'll certainly put it on when hanging out close to other people because I expect that there are a lot of folks within that community who will not be vaccinated (@%$ing hippies ). I'm pretty thrilled that being vaccinated is making me feel comfortable about having a part of my life I really care about come back, at least in the outdoors, even though it is a heavy breathing and exertion in groups activity.

Indoor parties of all vaccinated friends are coming back too (my friend's birthday party is a week before that weekend dance party), the one I went to last weekend was a bit overwhelming for me (too many people in the back yard after a year of being around almost nobody else), but I think the one in June will likely feel fine.

Have a climbing date on Monday morning, another indoor (though at least voluminous space) exertion/heavy breathing activity. That will be fully masked of course. Pretty excited about getting it back, though it is not the crowded climbing gym experience as they are limiting the number of people in the building.

I totally pop into the supermarket to pick stuff up whenever we need anything, rather than just waiting for a delivery, wondering what balance I will end up of in-person vs online for that over time, right now the novelty of being in the supermarket is nice and everybody is masked, if people start going unmasked I'll probably nope back to online ordering.

 

[RobbieB]

I'm riding the Bonneville up to Stockton today for an inhouse lunch that I've been missing for a year and a half. Tomorrow I'll go have a sit down bowl of ramen where it's the best!

 

[audreyh1]

I'm riding the Bonneville up to Stockton today for an inhouse lunch that I've been missing for a year and a half. Tomorrow I'll go have a sit down bowl of ramen where it's the best!

Great for you!!! Enjoy!

 

[Lienlord]

I'm pretty thrilled that being vaccinated is making me feel comfortable about having a part of my life I really care about come back, at least in the outdoors, even though it is a heavy breathing and exertion in groups activity.

I totally pop into the supermarket to pick stuff up whenever we need anything, rather than just waiting for a delivery, wondering what balance I will end up of in-person vs online for that over time, right now the novelty of being in the supermarket is nice and everybody is masked, if people start going unmasked I'll probably nope back to online ordering.

Are your concerns due to lack of confidence in the vaccine? From all accounts it's very reliable.

 

[explanade]

I’m not sure how California is going to respond to the latest CDC guidelines. We have been wearing masks inside stores for a year now. If we remove the mandate, each store will have to decide what policy to set for their business. That puts us back to where we were at the beginning of the pandemic, when masks were not mandatory and each store had to come up with their own policy, alienating at least some customers regardless of which position they took.

I really don’t have any problem wearing a mask when I go grocery shopping. I’ve switched exclusively to those neck gaiters, where I just leave it around my neck and pull it up over my nose for the short period of time I’m in the store. As a bonus, I’ve found that if I soak them in cold water they keep me from overheating when I play pickleball in warmer weather.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Aren't those considered porous and not thought to be effective?

 

[explanade]

Got my haircut, gave an extra large tip for the long hair.

Scheduled an orthopedist appointment for next week.

Now got to figure out dental thing. Cash prices for exam/cleanings are crazy, from $250 to $480 for first visit.

Now I'm looking into PPO insurance of some kind.

 

[CardsFan]

I read that at least 6 months ago.

But if it makes them feel better, that's fine.

Aren't those considered porous and not thought to be effective?

 

[CardsFan]

Almost cut my hair, it happened just the other day. It was getting kinda long.

Oops. Never mind.

Got my haircut, gave an extra large tip for the long hair.

Scheduled an orthopedist appointment for next week.

Now got to figure out dental thing. Cash prices for exam/cleanings are crazy, from $250 to $480 for first visit.

Now I'm looking into PPO insurance of some kind.

 

[Ready]

Aren't those considered porous and not thought to be effective?

Neck gaiters have about the same effectiveness as any other non-surgical face mask, meaning they are not meant to be used where an N95 mask is required, but they will certainly help to contain at least some large droplets if I cough or sneeze while inside a store. If I was worried about getting COVID I would wear an N95 mask. But I’m fully vaccinated so I’m just trying to do my part to meet the mask mandate requirement.

I do think that the combination of wearing a neck gaiter, washing my hands frequently, and maintaining some social distancing will help to keep me from getting a cold or the flu though, so I’m still fine with wearing them during the winter months when those viruses are likely to be circulating.

 

[explanade]

The cheap surgical mask have a impermeable layer while any given fabric mask may be too porous.

Just did a quick Google:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...ters-vs-face-masks-they-effective/5544515002/

 

[Chuckanut]

Los Angeles County is still maintaining the mask mandate vaccinated or not. Retail store employees don't need to become the vaccination police. Many retail stores announced that they intend to maintain the mask mandate while they review the new guidance. Since it's impossible to differentiate between someone who is vaccinated and someone who is not, mask mandates will likely be in force until we are close to herd immunity.

Perhaps we should have got the vaccine at tattoo shops. An injection and a small tattoo with the words USCDC Covid Approved on one's upper arm after shot 2 or shot 1 of JnJ.

 

[Chuckanut]

IIRC, Walmart was one of the first major retailers to require masks, way back then. This is from the WSJ site dated today:

Friday Walmart Inc. made the first big move to bend to the new view. The U.S.’s largest private employer said it would no longer require vaccinated workers and shoppers to wear masks in stores and warehouses outside of municipalities that require it. Walmart’s new no-mask policy for its 1.6 million U.S. workers goes into effect May 18, the company said, while vaccinated customers could shop maskless immediately.